C William Nylander (2014, 8th, TOR) V [Mod warning in OP]

[Menzinger]

Post draft year = the year after he was drafted. Drafted in 2012, was playing full time in 2013. At age 19. The same year Nylander is starting with the Marlies this year.

Yes - and there are completely different management regimes and player developmental staff. The guys who called the shots on Morgan's development have long been fired.

 

[X66]

Actually, he looked like he needed to improve his defensive game before he'd be ready to be an NHL regular.

As if he was any worse defensively than some of our top 6 guys lol.

You had neutral parties gushing over him in every game he played.

He could have easily made the team, but we all knew he wouldn't.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

As if he was any worse defensively than some of our top 6 guys lol.

You had neutral parties gushing over him in every game he played.

He could have easily made the team, but we all knew he wouldn't.

He looked really great in the games he played - his improvement since last season is most impressive. However, that doesn't mean his d doesn't need more work before he's ready to stick with the team as a regular. It's not insulting him to say that.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

He looked really great in the games he played - his improvement since last season is most impressive. However, that doesn't mean his d doesn't need more work before he's ready to stick with the team as a regular. It's not insulting him to say that.

His defensive game is good enough to be a middle 6 winger, absolutely no question. He could be an NHL regular this season, just not at center, and not in all situations. He could play in Ehler's role today.

Management wants him as a center who can handle top minutes and both special teams, it is not possible to give him that in the NHL and still say that your #1 priority is winning games this season even if it might be better in the long run.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

His defensive game is good enough to be a middle 6 winger, absolutely no question. He could be an NHL regular this season, just not at center, and not in all situations. He could play in Ehler's role today.

Management wants him as a center who can handle top minutes and both special teams, it is not possible to give him that in the NHL and still say that your #1 priority is winning games this season even if it might be better in the long run.

Not to be an effective one, it isn't. I also don't see him replicating what Ehlers has done at this time, either.

I suspect Leafs fans who believe he will simply step into the NHL as a top two C playing in all situations will be a bit surprised when that's not what happens.

Hopefully the coaching staff with the Marlies have higher expectations when it comes to the improvement they want to see from Nylander than Leafs fans have.

 

[X66]

Not to be an effective one, it isn't. I also don't see him replicating what Ehlers has done at this time, either.

I suspect Leafs fans who believe he will simply step into the NHL as a top two C playing in all situations will be a bit surprised when that's not what happens.

Hopefully the coaching staff with the Marlies have higher expectations when it comes to the improvement they want to see from Nylander than Leafs fans have.

I think we're arguing that he could have easily made the NHL roster on his talent alone. Did Ehlers really have a better camp than Nylander? I don't think so, but yet, he made a much better team because the situation is different.

On the flip side, I don't think Ehlers could have made a worse Leafs team because that's not the direction they're going in.

 

[Rebuilt]

I think we're arguing that he could have easily made the NHL roster on his talent alone. Did Ehlers really have a better camp than Nylander? I don't think so, but yet, he made a much better team because the situation is different.

On the flip side, I don't think Ehlers could have made a worse Leafs team because that's not the direction they're going in.

While your opinion is duly noted, this line of spin doesnt work either.

You can 'claim' Nylander cudda wudda shudda , but the fact is he didnt. Babcock can also spin whatever he wants at press conferences but it also doesnt make it so behind closed doors.

Ehlers is holding his own on a good Jets team. He makes plays, takes tons of shots under very limited ice time situations. He also back checks hard using his blazing speed and is a +4 for his efforts.

If Nylander was capable of playing at Ehlers level, Babcock has no reason to send him down or keep him in Toronto. Either way he burns yet another year off his ELC , and he can yank him back and forth whenever he sees fit.

Ergo his reasoning was based on Nylanders development level. He didnt make the team.

 

[Shwaguy*]

While your opinion is duly noted, this line of spin doesnt work either.

You can 'claim' Nylander cudda wudda shudda , but the fact is he didnt. Babcock can also spin whatever he wants at press conferences but it also doesnt make it so behind closed doors.

Ehlers is holding his own on a good Jets team. He makes plays, takes tons of shots under very limited ice time situations. He also back checks hard using his blazing speed and is a +4 for his efforts.

If Nylander was capable of playing at Ehlers level, Babcock has no reason to send him down or keep him in Toronto. Either way he burns yet another year off his ELC , and he can yank him back and forth whenever he sees fit.

Ergo his reasoning was based on Nylanders development level. He didnt make the team.

Nylander was playing at Ehlers level and Babcock still sent him down. Ehlers would have been sent down if he were in our organization as well (And had AHL as an option, don't think anyone doubts that Nylander wouldn't be in the NHL if it was that or CHL as his options.)


I just can't wait until we make a trade and he gets called up because this is getting annoying.

 

[theIceWookie]

While your opinion is duly noted, this line of spin doesnt work either.

You can 'claim' Nylander cudda wudda shudda , but the fact is he didnt. Babcock can also spin whatever he wants at press conferences but it also doesnt make it so behind closed doors.

Ehlers is holding his own on a good Jets team. He makes plays, takes tons of shots under very limited ice time situations. He also back checks hard using his blazing speed and is a +4 for his efforts.

If Nylander was capable of playing at Ehlers level, Babcock has no reason to send him down or keep him in Toronto. Either way he burns yet another year off his ELC , and he can yank him back and forth whenever he sees fit.

Ergo his reasoning was based on Nylanders development level. He didnt make the team.

Eh...that's kind of a broad statement. Switch Nylander and Ehlers, and would Ehlers have made the Leafs and Nylander the Jets? I would suggest that Ehlers would be in the minors and Nylander in the NHL. The Jets can surround Ehlers with protection that the Leafs simply can't give Nylander. Development reasons? Sure but that might have nothing to do with his game being NHL ready or not. It could simply (and is likely) more of protecting him from insane media when he isn't going to change a damn thing for the Leafs this season.

It surprises me that "playing in teh NHL" is a sign of a prospects worth. We've seen how many prospects make the NHL earlier than others and bust? Why is it still used as an argument?

Also Nylander playing in the AHL doesn't burn a year off his ELC. He still slides...

 

[Shwaguy*]

Wait, so why was it slammed by certain Leafs fans when some people had the audacity to rank Ehlers above Nylander after last season, despite Ehlers dominating the Q? You know, when Nylander was in a league that Ehlers couldn't possibly play in? That sounds odd.

Oh well, I guess there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for this hypocrisy. For me, nothing has changed. I never had them ranked far apart. Still don't. Just questioning why people are changing their minds on how much it matters what league they are playing in.

I don't care what other fans said. Why bring it up to me? I don't speak for all Leaf fans and all Leaf fans don't speak for me.

I always said they were close and that the only reason Jets/Leaf fans will pick one over the other is that they are in their respective organization.

 

[Hyack57]

And here I thought I'd come to see how Nylander has been doing in the AHL this year so far but it seems there is just to much posturing to wade through....

 

[Say What]

I think we're arguing that he could have easily made the NHL roster on his talent alone. Did Ehlers really have a better camp than Nylander? I don't think so, but yet, he made a much better team because the situation is different.

On the flip side, I don't think Ehlers could have made a worse Leafs team because that's not the direction they're going in.

There are a lot of very talented prospects that have not made the jump to the NHL this year. Some were expected to, some were not.

However, to state that Nylander could do what Ehlers is doing, is just false. Ehlers is a phenomenal back checker that uses his speed to his advantage, and has above average hockey IQ (according to those in the know). Plus, he still brings that element of elite offensive talent.

What makes you think William is that same player? The minor leagues are littered with players oozing with offensive talent. But can they play the 'game' at an NHL level?

As a side note: Sean Couturier (8th overall/2011) made the jump before Mark Scheifele (7th overall/2011). So what!! Looking back, I think that extra year helped Mark, and I wouldn't change that pick for anything.

 

[Dotter]

Babcock is a guy that wants the best possible team he can, he is too competive to tank. And TO isn't trying to learn how to lose, he is trying to teach them how to win. He wants to bring a winning mantra into their system; not a tanking/losing philosophy.

Spin it how ever you want, but Babcock doesn't have the "lose for a better cause" philosophy as many here are trying to express. It just isn't who he is. I think he'd rather coach a high school team for peanuts than to tank an NHL team for picks.

So that being said, Babcock isn't going to have a guy sent down to the minors if he thinks he'll help the team over someone else on the roster. He just won't.

And as far as losing a year off his ELC seems like a lame excuse if he can produce at a high level now in the NHL. They'd gain more now than to worry about a year off his ELC.

Other prospects are playing in the NHL, top 6 and helping their team now while they gain real NHL experience at the highest level ever, which will help them become even better NHLers in the future.

Me knowing how Babcock works, consistently, the past decade+ aren't going to convince me on what a few TML fans are trying to sell.

Bottom line, if Nylander was NHL ready he would be in the NHL right now. He's just simply not NHL ready.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Leafs Lunch was saying the other day how from the sounds of things Babcock and Lamoriello wanted Nylander up for at least 9 games with the Leafs, but Shanahan and Dubas overruled them and insisted he start the year in the AHL.

So sounds like Babcock wanted Nylander, but Leafs managements new mantra on development wouldn't allow it, which is exactly what Leafs fans have been saying from the beginning.

In short, Nylander made the team, Babcock wanted him, his superiors wouldn't allow it.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Leafs Lunch was saying the other day how from the sounds of things Babcock and Lamoriello wanted Nylander up for at least 9 games with the Leafs, but Shanahan and Dubas overruled them and insisted he start the year in the AHL.

So sounds like Babcock wanted Nylander, but Leafs managements new mantra on development wouldn't allow it, which is exactly what Leafs fans have been saying from the beginning.

In short, Nylander made the team, Babcock wanted him, his superiors wouldn't allow it.

We have no way of knowing this for sure. Shanahan and Lamoriello run a very tight ship and info does not get out.

I know Nylander was good this preseason. Better against the rookies, less so against the vets. If you asked me if he knocked it out of the park as to give the Leafs no reason to send him back. He didn't.

Thus I am not surprised he was sent down. If anything, he may have deserved 9 games only.

 

[Rebuilt]

Nylander was playing at Ehlers level and Babcock still sent him down. Ehlers would have been sent down if he were in our organization as well (And had AHL as an option, don't think anyone doubts that Nylander wouldn't be in the NHL if it was that or CHL as his options.)


I just can't wait until we make a trade and he gets called up because this is getting annoying.

I disagree. You can 'say so' all you want. Doesnt make it so.

I don't care what other fans said. Why bring it up to me? I don't speak for all Leaf fans and all Leaf fans don't speak for me.

I always said they were close and that the only reason Jets/Leaf fans will pick one over the other is that they are in their respective organization.

Fair enough. I picked Ehlers over Nylander for these reason:

True, Nylander has better on ice vision. He is talented . But so is Ehlers. Ehlers also has blazing speed Nylander doesnt have, and just as important is the fact Ehlers has a GRIT to his game that is very important at the NHL level. This dimension is one that Nylander simply does not have.

For those reasons, I say Ehlers is the better prospect.

There are a lot of very talented prospects that have not made the jump to the NHL this year. Some were expected to, some were not.

However, to state that Nylander could do what Ehlers is doing, is just false. Ehlers is a phenomenal back checker that uses his speed to his advantage, and has above average hockey IQ (according to those in the know). Plus, he still brings that element of elite offensive talent.

What makes you think William is that same player? The minor leagues are littered with players oozing with offensive talent. But can they play the 'game' at an NHL level?

As a side note: Sean Couturier (8th overall/2011) made the jump before Mark Scheifele (7th overall/2011). So what!! Looking back, I think that extra year helped Mark, and I wouldn't change that pick for anything.

I think Leaf fans saw Nylander play in the AHL last year against 'men' as opposed to the supposedly PATHETIC QMJHL that Ehlers dominated and ran with that fact.

Now the shoe is on the other foot . I think bragging about Nylander simply because he had the opportunity to play in the SHL and AHL instead of being prisoner in the CHL was a mistake.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

We have no way of knowing this for sure. Shanahan and Lamoriello run a very tight ship and info does not get out.

I know Nylander was good this preseason. Better against the rookies, less so against the vets. If you asked me if he knocked it out of the park as to give the Leafs no reason to send him back. He didn't.

Thus I am not surprised he was sent down. If anything, he may have deserved 9 games only.

That's a funny change of opinion considering you were all over the Conte rumour 2 months ago, and that was an outside source.

 

[Shwaguy*]

I disagree. You can 'say so' all you want. Doesnt make it so.



Fair enough. I picked Ehlers over Nylander for these reason:

True, Nylander has better on ice vision. He is talented . But so is Ehlers. Ehlers also has blazing speed Nylander doesnt have, and just as important is the fact Ehlers has a GRIT to his game that is very important at the NHL level. This dimension is one that Nylander simply does not have.

For those reasons, I say Ehlers is the better prospect.



I think Leaf fans saw Nylander play in the AHL last year against 'men' as opposed to the supposedly PATHETIC QMJHL that Ehlers dominated and ran with that fact.

Now the shoe is on the other foot . I think bragging about Nylander simply because he had the opportunity to play in the SHL and AHL instead of being prisoner in the CHL was a mistake.

Nylander has elite skating. Grit is overrated (Being able to use your body as an advantage is not but just throwing a hit here and there is overrated from someone of Ehlers' stature), and Ehlers doesn't have it in spades either.

For me, Hockey IQ trumps all and that's why I prefer Nylander. Who has that + The talent to back it up in spades.

 

[Shwaguy*]

I disagree. You can 'say so' all you want. Doesnt make it so.



Fair enough. I picked Ehlers over Nylander for these reason:

True, Nylander has better on ice vision. He is talented . But so is Ehlers. Ehlers also has blazing speed Nylander doesnt have, and just as important is the fact Ehlers has a GRIT to his game that is very important at the NHL level. This dimension is one that Nylander simply does not have.

For those reasons, I say Ehlers is the better prospect.



I think Leaf fans saw Nylander play in the AHL last year against 'men' as opposed to the supposedly PATHETIC QMJHL that Ehlers dominated and ran with that fact.

Now the shoe is on the other foot . I think bragging about Nylander simply because he had the opportunity to play in the SHL and AHL instead of being prisoner in the CHL was a mistake.

Also, Ditto to you my friend.

 

[Kelly]

Nylander doesn't have elite skating? Okkkkk... Maybe you should try watching a prospect your having a discussion about.

 

[MardyBum]

For preseason :

I still think they're equal prospects, if I were running the Leafs i'd keep my prospects away from that dumpster fire.

Why copy the Oilers?

 

[Cotton]

Leafs Lunch was saying the other day how from the sounds of things Babcock and Lamoriello wanted Nylander up for at least 9 games with the Leafs, but Shanahan and Dubas overruled them and insisted he start the year in the AHL.

So sounds like Babcock wanted Nylander, but Leafs managements new mantra on development wouldn't allow it, which is exactly what Leafs fans have been saying from the beginning.

In short, Nylander made the team, Babcock wanted him, his superiors wouldn't allow it.

Sounds about right.

I mean everybody and their mother knew he was going to be sent down, it was the plan, he just made it a really difficult choice because he's clearly ready for the NHL.

But this team... As a fan I don't know if I'd want him around this either, even though it would be fun to watch.

 

[canuckking1]

I just came to see how Nylander is doing and all I see is Larkin this and Elhers that. its not far to compare these player yet, maybe 3 years down the road. Fyi both Larkin and Elher are playing with Top six players

 

[Gamble9]

want to add ounce again that Nylander does not burn up a year of his entry level deal this year nor did he last year players drafter out of the professional leagues have there entry level deals slide up to 2 years when they play in pro leagues so Nylander will start his 3 year entry level deal next year. This has been pointed out many times on this board and when people don't know this or refer to players having speed that Nylander does not have It makes me wonder how much they have watched or researched about him his first 3 steps and his top end speed are outstanding just because he doesn't dart around the Ice doesn't mean hes not fast

 

[bobbyt 91*]

Its very obvious who actually watches Nylander and who doesn't.
The main negative I can think of is he appears to float in the D zone but when you look at the big picture on the play he is actually doing a good job of blocking lanes and taking away space and time.
In terms of offensive talent, IQ etc he is ahead of Larkin and Ehlers. Once he is playing in the NHL it won't take long for that to be evident