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C/W Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Ässät, Liiga (2018, 3rd, MTL) Part II

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nbwingsfan said:
You just proved that they all had Zadina at 3. And Mackenzie gets his ratings from the actual GMs.

You're citing Bergevin as a "pro" by the way :laugh:
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No, Im citing Timmins as one. The guy that drafted Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Mete, Sergachev, Mcdonagh, Lekhonen, Hudon, Emelin, the Kostitsyn... One is good, the other is f***ing terribad.
 
nbwingsfan said:
Show me some publications that had any of the 3 taken ahead of him rated higher. Just because teams made stupid choices doesn't mean they're better.
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Those publications don’t scout these players as thoroughly as NHL team scouting departments. The fact that the Habs, Sens and Coyotes all passed on him is very telling.
 
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johnnyutah said:
Those publications don’t scout these players as thoroughly as NHL team scouting departments. The fact that the Habs, Sens and Coyotes all passed on him is very telling.
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Well, 2 of the teams you mention definitely drafted out of need, rather than BPA.

And the 3rd, Ottawa, is probably the worst-run franchise in the NHL.
 
TwoPiece said:
This was not implied.

"Education" has nothing to do with formal education. I'm referring to hockey education. Like professional development, amateur development, leagues, etc. Some people just look at draft positions and stats. Others look at everything.
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What does that have to do with what team you cheer for? And what use is it on these boards? Most people don't have proof of any "education" and many of those that do can't really demonstrate the value of that "education".
 
TwoPiece said:
As much as I'll give flak to those that had Kotkaniemi in the Top-10... Anyone who had Hayton in the Top-10 is smoking Heisenberg meth.
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Kotkaniemi at #3 is one thing(I wouldn't have picked him there), but... flak for having him in the top 10? He still had over 0.5 PPG in Liiga as a 17-year-old and had an excellent WJC-u18 performance.
 
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TwoPiece said:
Well, 2 of the teams you mention definitely drafted out of need, rather than BPA.

And the 3rd, Ottawa, is probably the worst-run franchise in the NHL.
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Yep but there is absolutely nothing wrong with our drafting or scouting
 
Captain Wolverine said:
What does that have to do with what team you cheer for? And what use is it on these boards? Most people don't have proof of any "education" and many of those that do can't really demonstrate the value of that "education".
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It doesn't have anything to do with your favorite team, unless, your favorite team is bad at scouting, drafting, and developing players and they're the team you watch the majority of the time you see hockey. That's a large chunk of fandoms, wouldn't you say?

No, there isn't a metric for judging a fan's hockey education, so what was the point of that jabroni saying that people can't take my opinion seriously on Kotkaniemi because I'm a Detroit fan..?
 
TwoPiece said:
Bob MacKenzie is not a professional scout. I do not weigh his opinion heavily. He's a decent hockey mind, but he's good at certain things, kinda how Pierre McGuire is good at memorizing how big Crosby's flat screen TV is in his family room.
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The poster you responded to shared rankings of current and ex-NHL head scouts. That’s fine to ignore them, but don’t be shocked when others do the same to you. I’m just asking for consistent logic in the debate, that’s all.
 
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ijuka said:
Kotkaniemi at #3 is one thing(I wouldn't have picked him there), but... flak for having him in the top 10? He still had over 0.5 PPG in Liiga as a 17-year-old and had an excellent WJC-u18 performance.
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I just think he isn't Top-10 talent. It's not an "AINEC" example. I just did not expect him to go close to 3rd. Montreal, and some other guys, must've seen something that I missed. I'm not saying he's 2nd-round talent or anything. I'm just still so surprised that he was selected that high.
 
TwoPiece said:
I just think he isn't Top-10 talent. It's not an "AINEC" example. I just did not expect him to go close to 3rd. Montreal, and some other guys, must've seen something that I missed. I'm not saying he's 2nd-round talent or anything. I'm just still so surprised that he was selected that high.
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Third on his men's professional team in scoring as a 17 year old. Guy was top 5 in most draft rankings; big, skilled centre... this isn't a reach; and he's certainly a top 10 talent.

Montreal going on a limb and picking him up a few spots before he was due was a good gamble by their staff. Reminds me a bit of the Scheifele pick for Winnipeg; we'll see if he pans out that well.
 
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TwoPiece said:
It doesn't have anything to do with your favorite team, unless, your favorite team is bad at scouting, drafting, and developing players and they're the team you watch the majority of the time you see hockey. That's a large chunk of fandoms, wouldn't you say?

No, there isn't a metric for judging a fan's hockey education, so what was the point of that jabroni saying that people can't take my opinion seriously on Kotkaniemi because I'm a Detroit fan..?
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Again, the team you watch in the NHL has nothing to do with scouting ability. It does not matter if that team is good or bad.

And I'm taking issue to the notion that a Detroit fan would no more about great hockey players, you being a Detroit fans has no bearing on your opinion, good or bad.
 
Captain Wolverine said:
Again, the team you watch in the NHL has nothing to do with scouting ability. It does not matter if that team is good or bad.

And I'm taking issue to the notion that a Detroit fan would no more about great hockey players, you being a Detroit fans has no bearing on your opinion, good or bad.
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I'm a hockey fan first, and Detroit fan second.

If you don't understand how viewing different teams, systems, etc, can influence people and impact their ability to watch, receive, and judge important developmental information at all ages, well, then, you're lost in this discussion.
 
topshelf15 said:
Tkachuk is EXACTLY the type of winger one of the worst possession teams should be looking at...
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People thought little of his brother at the time as well. I remember the Flames board being pretty 50/50 on picking Chucky up at the draft.
Turns out his brother is an absolute stud; and the younger Tkachuk is more physically gifted.
 
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TwoPiece said:
I'm a hockey fan first, and Detroit fan second.

If you don't understand how viewing different teams, systems, etc, can influence people and impact their ability to watch, receive, and judge important developmental information at all ages, well, then, you're lost in this discussion.
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If you think that I don't understand that viewing different teams and leagues matter, then you haven't been reading my responses.

I'm just not going to care about an opinion of an anonymous poster with no reasoning over those that scout professionally and provide reasoning.
 
Captain Wolverine said:
If you think that I don't understand that viewing different teams and leagues matter, then you haven't been reading my responses.

I'm just not going to care about an opinion of an anonymous poster with no reasoning over those that scout professionally and provide reasoning.
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Then what was the point of your replies..?

Your responses seem to corroborate my wonder on why my opinion could be invalidated by one of my favorite teams. It didn't make sense and it seems your share that outlook.
 
TwoPiece said:
No, there isn't a metric for judging a fan's hockey education, so what was the point of that jabroni saying that people can't take my opinion seriously on Kotkaniemi because I'm a Detroit fan..?
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I'm the jabroni you're whinning about and I will tell you again: I can't take a Detroit's fan seriously when they say Montreal should not have picked Kotkaniemi at #3. I thought I clearly stated the reason why. Now stop your whinning, it's getting old.
 
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