C Samuel Honzek - Vancouver Giants, WHL (2023, 16th, CGY)

[BondraTime]

The highest any credible rating group had him was hockey news at 19. This was a reach based on deciding we needed size with skill. Conroy outright said they prioritized skill with size. How about Cristall who went in the second round? You never responded to that.

If you're using rankings to be upset about Honzek while at the same time clamoring for Cristall, you realize he was ranked over Cristall on a majority of lists, correct?

Cristall
2023 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #19 by Elite Prospects
2023 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #19 by FCHockey
2023 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #35 by TSN/Craig Button
2023 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #25 by McKeen's Hockey
2023 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #27 by TSN/McKenzie
2023 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #15 by NHL Central Scouting

Honzek
2023 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #20 by Elite Prospects
2023 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #36 by FCHockey
2023 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #22 by TSN/Craig Button
2023 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #18 by McKeen's Hockey
2023 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #17 by TSN/McKenzie
2023 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #9 by NHL Central Scouting

Not to mention that at least 1 actual NHL team had Honzek in the top 10.

 

[H3ckt1k]

The highest any credible rating group had him was hockey news at 19. This was a reach based on deciding we needed size with skill. Conroy outright said they prioritized skill with size. How about Cristall who went in the second round? You never responded to that.

Believe it or not, internal scouting teams have much different lists than the "credible rating groups"

 

[Stewie Griffin]

We needed a front of the roster player with this pick and I don't think we got one. Hope I'm wrong.

You were drafting 16th overall not 3rd...did you actually expect a top line player?

 

[Peasy]

The highest any credible rating group had him was hockey news at 19. This was a reach based on deciding we needed size with skill. Conroy outright said they prioritized skill with size. How about Cristall who went in the second round? You never responded to that.

HockeyProspect (probably the best independent scouting you can get access to) had him 12/13 iirc. A lot of people questioned them for having Simashev and But high all year and look where they ended up going.

And what about Cristall? If you actually watch these guys its not difficult to find out why he went where he did. Hes small, fragile, lacks pace and separation speed. Hes your prototypical boom/bust prospect, that often busts. What works for a player in junior will not always work for a player in the NHL. Youre drafting players for the NHL, not the WHL. You clearly care about point totals the most in a prospect because thats all you ever bring up.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Cozens played in a lower scoring season. That's the only WHLer you named. Cozens also was the best WHL forward in his draft year. He was the correct birth year. He had a good shot. None of these things are Honzek. Honzek was more like the reach pick the Hawks made with Dach. Except Dach was the correct birth year.

Cozen's was 3 months younger, and already had 88 games of WHL experience under his belt prior to his draft year. Honzek had 0.

You are really reaching here DD.

 

[Backlund]

The highest any credible rating group had him was hockey news at 19. This was a reach based on deciding we needed size with skill. Conroy outright said they prioritized skill with size. How about Cristall who went in the second round? You never responded to that.

Drafting someone at 16 that was ranked at 19 is not really a reach. Apparently the Flames scouts had him in the top 10 and tried to move up to get him.

 

[Double Dion]

I appear to be on an island here. I'm fine with it. I've watched the player. Not tons, but a couple of games live. I've said it before. He reminds me of Ruzicka. I don't like the pick and I stand by that. I'm rooting for him and hope I'm wrong. I just don't see anything elite there at all beyond the size. He's got decent hands, decent vision, decent skating. Muffin of a shot. If he doesn't progress or develop a high end tool we have another Ruzicka. I don't hate Ruzicka. Just hate the spot we took him at. I liked player like Cristall and Heidt better than him and they were both 2nd rounders. At least we had good 2nd and 3rd round picks. I didn't like the Zary pick for the same reason ( no high end tools ) and I was on an island on that one too.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

You were drafting 16th overall not 3rd...did you actually expect a top line player?

This is HFboards. Literally every 1st round pick is a superstar in the making .

 

[Double Dion]

This is HFboards. Literally every 1st round pick is a superstar in the making .

This is the best WHL draft class I've ever seen in my life and I'm in my 40s. There will be 1st line/ 1st pairing guys well into the 2nd round of this draft and others spotted throughout the first 4 rounds. This was the one you want lots of picks in.

I really only see the WHL guys, but apparently it was a very good year in Russia as well.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Muffin of a shot.

You need to start eating fresher muffins.

 

[Kranix]

I appear to be on an island here. I'm fine with it. I've watched the player. Not tons, but a couple of games live. I've said it before. He reminds me of Ruzicka. I don't like the pick and I stand by that. I'm rooting for him and hope I'm wrong. I just don't see anything elite there at all beyond the size. He's got decent hands, decent vision, decent skating. Muffin of a shot. If he doesn't progress or develop a high end tool we have another Ruzicka. I don't hate Ruzicka. Just hate the spot we took him at. I liked player like Cristall and Heidt better than him and they were both 2nd rounders. At least we had good 2nd and 3rd round picks. I didn't like the Zary pick for the same reason ( no high end tools ) and I was on an island on that one too.

I thought you were going to say you watched like all his games or something. These players are pretty hard to project, and you're fussing over similarly ranked 18 year olds, one whom you only saw play live twice?
Fwiw, one scout McKenzie polled had him in the top 10. So there's another guy who watched him ≥ 2 games, in a pro capacity no less!

 

[Figgy44]

Almost a year older? From your listed players btw: 5 months older than ASP. 2 months older than Moore. 3 months older than Barlow. Is Stevie Y wrong for taking danielson because he’s a September birthday? Funny you mention Barlow as he legitimately looks like he could have just hung up the skates and been retiring this past summer, while honzek has a baby face and is like paper thin with 20-25 lbs to grow into.

Well behind “them” in terms of production? He finished 4th among WHL draft eligibles in even-strength points per 60, beating out Yager, Danielson, Heidt, Ziemmer, Sawchyn, and more. Better numbers than Geekie who played on a stacked Ice team. His PPG including the PP was still better than Danielson’s and Yager’s. The players who produced better PPG than him like Ziemmer and Heidt had a large boost from their powerplay. Ziemmer 36 powerplay points. Heidt 43 powerplay points. Honzek 16 powerplay points.

Honzek played on one of the worst offenses in the entire WHL, a Giants team that scored only more than the rebuilding Edmonton oil kings. He played a handful of games with Ostapchuk, a third rounder but other than that did not have a single drafted player on his line. If you look at all the first rounders from 2023 out of the CHL, there is a serious argument to be made that Honzek has the least support in terms of linemates. If Honzek was playing on a better team or with just better players his numbers would obviously be much better. Still finished a +17, rather good for being on a team that scored just 188 goals in 68 games.

Not to mention Honzek is playing in a foreign country with all new teammates, and new ice and everything else culturally he had to adapt to.

Random question: we drafted his teammate Lipinski. Never played together? Just teammates?

Samuel Honzek - 56p in 43g - 1.30pgg

Ryan Getzlaf - 68p in 70g draft year - 0.97ppg
Ryan Johansen - 69p in 71g draft year - 0.97ppg
Sam Reinhart - 85p in 72g in draft year - 1.18ppg
Dylan Cozens - 84p in 68g in draft year - 1.23ppg
Matt Barzal - 57p in 44g in draft year - 1.29ppg

His scoring was perfectly in line with very good top 6 scorers at the NHL level out of the WHL.

Looking at Barzal, a flawed 1C but good 2C possibility at 16 is still a great pick IMO. Especially since Honzek could hone more tools than Barzal. Honzek isn't without risk, but when looking at the profile and his interviews, I don't feel worried. I feel like he will be a guaranteed NHLer. But his ability to play up and down the line will be determined only by his long term consistency in terms of how he packages all his skills and strategies together.

For a sec, I forgot why the GP was so low. Then I remembered, injury.

You need to start eating fresher muffins.

Stale muffins are harder anyways.

Maybe he's not completely on the wrong track.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Best pick the Flames could have made I’d think. Should have gone higher.

I think blues would have strongly considered him at 10 if Dvo was gone.

 

[bam09]

I appear to be on an island here. I'm fine with it. I've watched the player. Not tons, but a couple of games live. I've said it before. He reminds me of Ruzicka. I don't like the pick and I stand by that. I'm rooting for him and hope I'm wrong. I just don't see anything elite there at all beyond the size. He's got decent hands, decent vision, decent skating. Muffin of a shot. If he doesn't progress or develop a high end tool we have another Ruzicka. I don't hate Ruzicka. Just hate the spot we took him at. I liked player like Cristall and Heidt better than him and they were both 2nd rounders. At least we had good 2nd and 3rd round picks. I didn't like the Zary pick for the same reason ( no high end tools ) and I was on an island on that one too.

It's funny. If you'd have watched him live a few times and liked the pick, it would carry credibility with Flames fans. Since you didn't love the pick, your sample size is too small. Always the same with the fanbase.

What you've seen and wrote is really not dissimilar from reports on him. Well-rounded player with good size, and differences of opinion on whether or not the offensive toolkit is there.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I get the criticisms. He's not the highest upside guy at that spot, but Calgary's team is in a weird spot. They need to rebuild. This guy isn't a bad pick at that slot. If you are mad at your team for not having the pieces to be a Cup Contender, you shouldn't be blaming it on taking the wrong player with the 16th pick. You can't rely on the 16th pick to biggest issues with the team. Calgary will probably rebuild in a few years. Honzek may be a year or two ahead of it, and he'll be one of the earliest players to see the NHL from their rebuild, even if he's not going to be one of the core pieces for the team once they emerge from the rebuild.

 

[Kranix]

It's funny. If you'd have watched him live a few times and liked the pick, it would carry credibility with Flames fans. Since you didn't love the pick, your sample size is too small. Always the same with the fanbase.

What you've seen and wrote is really not dissimilar from reports on him. Well-rounded player with good size, and differences of opinion on whether or not the offensive toolkit is there.

Yeah, but to then say another player in the same ballpark ranking, with differing scouting reports was somehow the right pick...

 

[bam09]

Yeah, but to then say another player in the same ballpark ranking, with differing scouting reports was somehow the right pick...

What are we doing here as fans if it's not to express an opinion? I see nothing wrong with liking the Honzek pick because of XYZ, or preferring someone else bc of XYZ.

 

[rt]

I had them both in my top10. Just because they're good players now it doesn't mean they don't have any potential.

Agree. I had Honzek 11th and Danielson 9th. I’m a huge fan of both. The “scouting reports” online for these two are pretty bad. They largely don’t align with the reality of watching these players.

 

[Bond]

I was hesitant at first because the Flames had a really bad history of drafting by big = good for a long time and was worried this was a return to that but I don't think the Flames went with a lower ceiling, higher floor pick with this one. Flames drafting has actually been pretty decent. Zary, Pellietier, and Coronato were all good 1st round picks for there they were taken and none were massive reaches. Trust the scouts.

 

[rt]

I can’t believe flames fans were grumpy about this. That’s nuts. I was hoping for the Yotes to pick him 12th.

 

[Bond]

I can’t believe flames fans were grumpy about this. That’s nuts. I was hoping for the Yotes to pick him 12th.

I think it is because the pre-draft rankings had him projected as a middle six guy and most people spend about 2 minutes reading about the prospect and then see he was taken slightly higher than projected and get mad. I wanted Moore mainly because was a center and ranked in the 10-15 range and that is all I really knew about him lol.

 

[rt]

I think it is because the pre-draft rankings had him projected as a middle six guy and most people spend about 2 minutes reading about the prospect and then see he was taken slightly higher than projected and get mad. I wanted Moore mainly because was a center and ranked in the 10-15 range and that is all I really knew about him lol.

I had Moore a few spots lower. But I wouldn’t have been mad if we picked him or Honzek. We got But and that’s great, too. So much of this is development and luck. Haha.

 

[Peasy]

Yeah this draft was extremely wide open after the first 4 picks. I think a lot of people that didnt follow the draft heavily havent realized that yet. Really came down to personally who do you like more. Someone you had ranked 7th could have easily been ranked in the late teens or even 20s by someone else, and neither rankings could be looked at as wrong as of now. Have to wait the next 5 years and see how it all plays out.

 

[josra33]

People in this thread really shitting on the pick because he's not McDavid quality at 16th overall? God it's gonna be a long summer.

 

[Bond]

I had Moore a few spots lower. But I wouldn’t have been mad if we picked him or Honzek. We got But and that’s great, too. So much of this is development and luck. Haha.

Exactly. There is probably going to be a guy or two that go from the 2nd or 3rd rounds to top 15 in a redraft. Honzek is reallllllly intriguing if he can put it all together.