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Prospect Info: C/RW Matthew Savoie, 9th Overall, 2022 NHL Draft - Traded to Moose Jaw 1/4/24

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Ace said:
i don’t even know where to start.

Guy has a hate-on for Savoie that is really impressive.

I’d probably start with the fact that Savoie will still be a plus skater in the NHL while Barlow will no longer have a pronounced strength advantage. Or that he can add strength to his frame far easier than Barlow can add anything to his…. But it won’t matter. He’d trade Savoie for a 2nd this year.
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How many pounds do you think Savoie can add?
 
RefsIdeas said:
You are aware he’s 179 pounds at 5’9, right? He developed quicker than everybody else his age. It happens.
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I still see quite a bit of "baby fat" on Savoie, just like Mitts has. There's plenty of room for him to cut that and add muscle/functional strength.

Plus, it's not unheard of for a guy to gain an inch or two yet.
 
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Zman5778 said:
I still see quite a bit of "baby fat" on Savoie, just like Mitts has. There's plenty of room for him to cut that and add muscle/functional strength.

Plus, it's not unheard of for a guy to gain an inch or two yet.
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I don’t see it at all. I highly doubt he grows. It’s not also the end of the world if that’s the case. These aren’t Savoie-hate posts as much as they are let’s temper expectations a little bit.
 
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RefsIdeas said:
I don’t see it at all. I highly doubt he grows. It’s not also the end of the world if that’s the case. These aren’t Savoie-hate posts as much as they are let’s temper expectations a little bit.
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Cole Caufield is 5'7 174. By your logic he must suck
 
TageGod said:
Cole Caufield is 5'7 174. By your logic he must suck
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Yes let’s point out the smallest current active NHL player as our point to prove me wrong

TageGod said:
I assume Rosen is dead in the water then right?
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My other post was deleted I think but the two couldn’t be further comparisons. Rosen was drafted with a ton of room to grow physically. Savoie doesn’t have that room.

I also don’t hate Savoie (or Barlow, which is what I originally responded to). Some guys are drafted near their physical peak. That’s fine. You’re gonna get what you’re gonna get. Let’s temper expectations a bit. I think Savoie is a middle six winger in the mold of Seth Jarvis/Rich mans Vinnie Hinostroza.
 
RefsIdeas said:
Yes let’s point out the smallest current active NHL player as our point to prove me wrong
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You are pointing to Height and Weight as a deterrent to Savoie expectations. He really only needs to add some muscle. We are still here talking about Cozens adding more muscle. Savoie has decent weight on a small frame which gives a good center of gravity for engaging in hits.

RefsIdeas said:
Yes let’s point out the smallest current active NHL player as our point to prove me wrong


My other post was deleted I think but the two couldn’t be further comparisons. Rosen was drafted with a ton of room to grow physically. Savoie doesn’t have that room.

I also don’t hate Savoie (or Barlow, which is what I originally responded to). Some guys are drafted near their physical peak. That’s fine. You’re gonna get what you’re gonna get. Let’s temper expectations a bit. I think Savoie is a middle six winger in the mold of Seth Jarvis/Rich mans Vinnie Hinostroza.
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Why does him physically maturing faster deter his ability to play hockey and develop?
 
TageGod said:
You are pointing to Height and Weight as a deterrent to Savoie expectations. He really only needs to add some muscle. We are still here talking about Cozens adding more muscle. Savoie has decent weight on a small frame which gives a good center of gravity for engaging in hits.


Why does him physically maturing faster deter his ability to play hockey and develop?
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The whole point I’m making is I personally don’t believe he has much more room to grow physically. All the other guys you are mentioning have had plenty of room to grow.

Benson this year is small as well but has tons of room to grow still. Benson could wind up playing 20 pounds heavier than he is now. Savoie would be the heaviest 5’9 player in the NHL by a fair bit if he adds even 10.
 
i could see savoie getting to 190 pounds at his physical peak maybe even 195 he has tons of skill and a winning attitude he has special potential
 
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RefsIdeas said:
You are aware he’s 179 pounds at 5’9, right? He developed quicker than everybody else his age. It happens.
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I think you're potentially barking up the wrong developmental tree here. From the ages of 18-23, I went from 5' 8" to 6' and 140 to 170 pounds. It's all in his genes and we have no idea how that's going to play out. Perhaps this is his topped-out height and weight, but when you're only 19, there is the possibility he hasn't finished growing. Also, his size has very little to do with the type of prospect he is. I'm not going to drag down his season because in the first half, he was coming off of a major shoulder injury, and then he tuned it up in the second half/playoffs once that healed. Seems like a high-end prospect you'd like to see all the way through his development, no?
 
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LetsGoBuffalo1126 said:
I think you're potentially barking up the wrong developmental tree here. From the ages of 18-23, I went from 5' 8" to 6' and 140 to 170 pounds. It's all in his genes and we have no idea how that's going to play out. Perhaps this is his topped-out height and weight, but when you're only 19, there is the possibility he hasn't finished growing. Also, his size has very little to do with the type of prospect he is. I'm not going to drag down his season because in the first half, he was coming off of a major shoulder injury, and then he tuned it up in the second half/playoffs once that healed. Seems like a high-end prospect you'd like to see all the way through his development, no?
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I get where you’re coming from, truly. It’s my opinion that he’s probably done growing physically and he won’t be able to add much more weight to his frame. I won’t be able to prove that, nor could anybody prove that he certainly will grow.

For context to your point about growing, I was 6’1 180 as a freshman in high school. I left high school at 6’2 200 and was done growing. Everybody is different.

EichHart said:
Bedard is 5’9” lol
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Nowhere in my points am I saying that small players are not good/cannot be good.
 
Fjordy said:
Don't f***ing trade Savoie, period
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Certainly not to move up a few spots in the draft. However, in a proper hockey trade to improve one of the holes in our NHL roster with term? No issue parting with him whatsoever. If we were at the start of a rebuild and had lots of open positions? Maybe you keep him. Right now he is a smallish luxury pick that can help the Sabres in a trade far sooner than he will in the lineup.
 
TageGod said:
Cole Caufield is 5'7 174. By your logic he must suck
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Using the greatest outlier as an example of the norm is a poor argument I think. There are not a ton of 5'7" players in the league for a reason. Can one make it here and there? Sure, but lets not act like its the norm.

I for one have no interest in building a team out of smallish players. One or two with the right linemates can be alright, but in general I will always shade toward the bigger guys.
 
Faceboner said:
i could see savoie getting to 190 pounds at his physical peak maybe even 195 he has tons of skill and a winning attitude he has special potential
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Absolutely 0 chance lol. As far as I can tell there’s been one player in NHL history that was 5’9 and over 190 pounds - Pat Verbeek.
 
RefsIdeas said:
Absolutely 0 chance lol. As far as I can tell there’s been one player in NHL history that was 5’9 and over 190 pounds - Pat Verbeek.
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As you said he is 179 pounds already though he isn't bones and in decent shape he is still slight and is only 19 with his work ethic and pro training/diet i could see him adding 11 lbs over the course of 6-7 years also even though crosby is a whopping 2 inches taller he is 200 pounds and i think at one point was 210 also bedard who is a year younger same height and already 185 these kids are getting better training and diets at a younger age due to the sport evolving
 
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Faceboner said:
As you said he is 179 pounds already though he isn't bones and in decent shape he is still slight and is only 19 with his work ethic and pro training/diet i could see him adding 11 lbs over the course of 6-7 years also even though crosby is a whopping 2 inches taller he is 200 pounds and i think at one point was 210 also bedard who is a year younger same height and already 185 these kids are getting better training and diets at a younger age due to the sport evolving
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Even if he doesn't add weight, he can still get stronger. Look at Brad Marchand, he's only listed at 176 but he's a tough little bastard and seems pretty damn strong for his size from what I've seen. Sure he gets pushed around on occasion, but for the most part he manages just fine while also being pretty fearless on the ice.
 
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