C Quinton Byfield - Sudbury Wolves, OHL (2020 Draft) II

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Why? Faceoffs are extremely unimportant.

The highest faceoff % in the league was 56.5%, so let's assume a great faceoff guy wins 55% of his faceoffs and a weak one 45%.

We can expect a good 1C to take around 18 faceoffs per game. Out of those 18, a great faceoff guy will win 10 and a weak faceoff guy will in 8.

So, over the course of a full game, that's a difference of 2 faceoff wins.

In the offensive zone, a faceoff win's expected to grant around 2 goals per 100 wins. And of course, a defensive zone faceoff win's expected to prevent that many goals per 100 wins. Neutral zone faceoffs have very minor impact so I'll ignore them here. Around 1/3 of faceoffs are neutral zone ones, but that varies widely from team to team. Close enough.

Essentially, what that means is that over the course of 82 games, a 55% faceoff guy will gain about 2 goals for his team and prevent 2 in comparison to a 45% faceoff guy. With the minor impact of faceoff types not accounted for(offense for defensive, neutral zone faceoff wins, defense for offensive, neutral zone faceoff wins), that'd be a total of 2.5 goal for, 2.5 against or so. Just about anything else the player does will have more importance.

If it doesn't matter, why do teams always make sure they have their best face-off men taking the face-offs in key situation late in a game. After all, it doesn't matter if they lose the face-off, according to you. You've computed that the numbers say it doesn't have an important effect on a game to lose face-offs at a high rate or to win them at a high rate. Why not have defensemen take more face-offs then?

 

[bert]

Honestly I don't think his hockey sense is all that great, especially compared to some of the other top guys in this draft.

He's kind of sucked internationally too, but small sample size.

I think his hockey sense is just fine, his vision is great. He has played a season and a half of jr only, he has a long way to go. You cant fault a player for playing to their strengths when they have that much success. One thing people dont talk about that he is really good at is his back pressure and back checking he comes through the middle of the ice very well disrupting alot of plays.

 

[bert]

If it doesn't matter, why do teams always make sure they have their best face-off men taking the face-offs in key situation late in a game. After all, it doesn't matter if they lose the face-off, according to you. You've computed that the numbers say it doesn't have an important effect on a game to lose face-offs at a high rate or to win them at a high rate. Why not have defensemen take more face-offs then?

It doesnt matter because you can find a faceoff guy to take those faceoffs. It doesnt have to be the best player on the team taking it.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It doesnt matter because you can find a faceoff guy to take those faceoffs. It doesnt have to be the best player on the team taking it.

It does matter. Why wouldn't you want your best players on the ice in an important situation? You'd prefer that your best centers are also your best face-off guys. That allows you to not have to sacrifice either.

 

[bert]

It does matter. Why wouldn't you want your best players on the ice in an important situation? You'd prefer that your best centers are also your best face-off guys. That allows you to not have to sacrifice either.

Yawn, you going to die on this hill? Faceoffs really arent that important in the grand scheme of things in rating a players impact, thats what you have dug your heels into. Sure its a nice bonus but if you have another guy on your team that is good at it how close is he going to be to the worst player on the ice anyway? If he is that bad (shouldnt be if he is playing in the nhl to begin with) he can still get off the ice after, it happens all the time. The irony is this all stemmed from Byfield at 17 still being over 50% being a bad thing, and youre on a crusade to suggest its something to hold against him. Something he will certainly get better at.

 

[Lt Dan]

Yawn, you going to die on this hill?

LOL you must not have debated with him before
Yes

He will also build a fort on that hill made of red solo cups

 

[bert]

LOL you must not have debated with him before
Yes

He will also build a fort on that hill made of red solo cups

Oh I have, too much actually. At the point where I understand his motive for each argument. This one likely stems from his constant and unrelenting push that this draft is below average, which he ironically started before the Rangers were awarded first overall. Which also stems from another motive, if you go into the Byfield vs Hughes debate that will help you get more clarity.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Oh I have, too much actually. At the point where I understand his motive for each argument. This one likely stems from his constant and unrelenting push that this draft is below average, which he ironically started before the Rangers were awarded first overall. Which also stems from another motive, if you go into the Byfield vs Hughes debate that will help you get more clarity.

Are you a psychologist?

You do this every time you attempt to quote one of my posts. How about taking each argument in good faith and arguing the actual points instead of trying to always play amateur psychologist? I can assure you I don't have the time to think up sinister motives for my points.

 

[FlyguyOX]

What if NYR selected Byfield as a sort of social justice stance. I wouldn't put it past them in these times.

 

[bsu]

What if NYR selected Byfield as a sort of social justice stance. I wouldn't put it past them in these times.

You're kidding.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I find this stuff so funny.

The argument for Crosby's career over Ovechkin's and Malkin's, considering we are talking about three players whose offensive talent is in the same ballpark, has supposedly been his way two way, face-offs, grittiness, work-ethic, game to game consistency, but supposedly this kind of stuff doesn't matter anymore if its Malkin compared to the rest of the league. But if we go back to Crosby compared to those players, it will matter. I think it matters, regardless of the player. My opinion won't change depending on which player we are talking about. I think face-offs matter.

Theoretically someone can be a good FO man and suck in coverage. Or vice versa. Or be unable to win board battles etc etc. so on and so forth.

All I’m saying is that it’s a hyperspecialized tool that’s certainly a plus to have, but doesn’t really affect a players overall ability to play outside of certain situations. Not that they don’t matter.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

The faceoff posts are entertaining. I would guess 52% puts you in the top 40 or so every year. I don't even know what to say to someonne who thinks they don't matter. Suffer through the 15 seconds that followed philly's FO win in OT yesterday like I did.

Congrats to the LA Kings and enjoy Kopitar's replacement as much as you have enjoyed Kopitar's outstanding career.

52% in the OHL translates to roughly 46% in the NHL. That would be near the bottom of the centers in the league.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I find this stuff so funny.

The argument for Crosby's career over Ovechkin's and Malkin's, considering we are talking about three players whose offensive talent is in the same ballpark, has supposedly been his way two way, face-offs, grittiness, work-ethic, game to game consistency, but supposedly this kind of stuff doesn't matter anymore if its Malkin compared to the rest of the league. But if we go back to Crosby compared to those players, it will matter. I think it matters, regardless of the player. My opinion won't change depending on which player we are talking about. I think face-offs matter.

Being good at faceoffs is better than not, but in the grand scheme of things it's incredibly low on the list.

If you're talking about an elite center prospect, the fact that he's not good on faceoffs at age 17 should not be a factor at all when considering whether to pick him or not.

 

[Boonk]

Imagine having a chance to pick Byfield and not taking him cause he’s not as good at faceoffs at the age of 17-18. Lmfao.

 

[cyclones22]

LOL you must not have debated with him before
Yes

He will also build a fort on that hill made of red solo cups

I think I know who you're taking about because yesterday, I visited this thread and noticed like 10 consecutive posts from someone who was supposed to be on my ignore list. I thought he somehow had made an alt account with slightly different spelling and the ignore system missed it. Must've been a glitch. Anyway, this wait for the draft is tiresome. Sucks for all of us fans who don't have any stakes in the playoffs.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sidney Crosby had a 45.5% faceoff success rate as a rookie.
Connor McDavid was at 41.2%.
Leon Draisaitl, 40.63%.
Evgeni Malkin, 43.3%.

Not a single one of those players amounted to anything as a result of their terrible faceoff numbers.

 

[wings5]

What if NYR selected Byfield as a sort of social justice stance. I wouldn't put it past them in these times.

Some people like you will really say just about anything no matter how stupid it is

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Face-offs???? - What's next thing what people think of Quinton that is negative.??? He lacks in cooking skill???

FYI. Quinton won 300+ face-offs this season and had won 52% of his face-offs, while being one of the youngest
in his entire draft class. - he was 53% last season, as an 16 year old....

Who ever said that he wasn't good at face-offs...

Centers who can win more than 50% of his face-offs, don't grow on trees you know.

 

[Samsquanch]

Face-offs???? - What's next thing what people think of Quinton that is negative.??? He lacks in cooking skill???

Hate to break it to ya's, but I think I remember reading or hearing an interview of his, and he was asked point blank about what was the best thing he can cook, and he literally stumbled over his words and eventually admitted that he cant cook anything at all.

Buyer beware is all I can say, and have patience. QB aint gonna be cooking any gourmet meals any time soon. Maybe never at all......

If Im LA I go with a guy that has less risk.

 

[simonedvinsson]

Hate to break it to ya's, but I think I remember reading or hearing an interview of his, and he was asked point blank about what was the best thing he can cook, and he literally stumbled over his words and eventually admitted that he cant cook anything at all.

Buyer beware is all I can say, and have patience. QB aint gonna be cooking any gourmet meals any time soon. Maybe never at all......

If Im LA I go with a guy that has less risk.

he's just being modest. the kid cooks a mean avacado oyster salad.

 

[pbgoalie]

Bad faceoffs
Questionable cooking skills/work ethic

he should fall to #6 for sure

 

[Hostile Offer]

Face-offs???? - What's next thing what people think of Quinton that is negative.??? He lacks in cooking skill???

FYI. Quinton won 300+ face-offs this season and had won 52% of his face-offs, while being one of the youngest
in his entire draft class. - he was 53% last season, as an 16 year old....

Who ever said that he wasn't good at face-offs...

Centers who can win more than 50% of his face-offs, don't grow on trees you know.

Actually that's roughly 50% of all centres lol.

Faceoffs are important but I wouldn't really look into them when evaluating junior players. Young players tend to struggle at faceoffs in the NHL almost regardless of how well they did in junior, it's a skill you can learn in the pros.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Well, a guy that can't cook is going to spend a lot of money on food/cooks/eating out, so he's going to be greedy for contract demands, especially in a high tax city like LA, plus with all the fancy eateries, it's gonna be a problem. I already can't stand this greedy prick.

 

[King'sPawn]

As a 17 year old playing one and a half seasons....


Dach is a way more mature person, listen to his spitting chicklets interview he sounds like a 10 year vet. I think Byfield goes back and its definitely for the best, lost alot of development time this year and has a late birthday to begin with. Not to mention big players take longer.

I really wonder why Kings fans are so adament that they want Byfield over Stutzle, no one knows who will be the better player. How defensive they get when its suggested they are taking Stutzle is confusing for me.

As a sens fan I am glad they are picking third, less pressure on the player they get or the organization for getting it wrong. I honestly do not care which one it is, just happy they are getting one of them.

Most Kings fans on the Kings board prefer Byfield, but would be perfectly okay with Stutzle.

We get defensive when fans pretend to know more about what Kings management is doing than Kings fans.

The local reporters who have connections have mentioned, based on what they have learned, that the Kings like Byfield more.

Canadian reporters speculate the Kings equipment manager's youngest child is "Nine" years old, but we all know that the number is pronounced like the German word "Nein." So they MUST be all in on Stutzle. Those dumb casuals in Southern California don't know that hockey exists unless Will Farrell is screaming at the TV, so what do they know?

 

[Islay1989]

Sidney Crosby had a 45.5% faceoff success rate as a rookie.
Connor McDavid was at 41.2%.
Leon Draisaitl, 40.63%.
Evgeni Malkin, 43.3%.

Not a single one of those players amounted to anything as a result of their terrible faceoff numbers.

Just look up how MacKinnon is doing. Imagine passing on his because he sucks at faceoffs