C Quinton Byfield - Sudbury Wolves, OHL (2020 Draft) II

[Tobias Kahun]

Eric Staal wasn't even good enough to be on Canada's World Junior team in 2003. What happened to that guy?

Only had 3 40+ goal seasons, busted hard. /sarcasm.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Eric Staal wasn't even good enough to be on Canada's World Junior team in 2003. What happened to that guy?

For about the 40th time, it has nothing to do with JUST his WJC. It’s hilarious people keep pointing to that. Of course there will be exceptions, but typically if you’re the best of the best like some think Byfield is (many here argued with me that he will be #1 over Laf until about November) you’re going to the best (or at the very top) of at least some type of tournament. Byfield has been a let down in all of them. His Hlinka was pretty good, but was still no where close to as good as some other top prospects

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

For about the 40th time, it has nothing to do with JUST his WJC. It’s hilarious people keep pointing to that. Of course there will be exceptions, but typically if you’re the best of the best like some think Byfield is (many here argued with me that he will be #1 over Laf until about November) you’re going to the best (or at the very top) of at least some type of tournament. Byfield has been a let down in all of them. His Hlinka was pretty good, but was still no where close to as good as some other top prospects

When you say all of them, you are pointing to two tournaments, one of which he played well in, and the other he was barely utilized. Elias Pettersson’s numbers at his first WJC would suggest that he’s not all that great, as did Vinny Lecavalier’s stats, but somehow teams foolishly ignored their performances at these tournaments.

And somehow Nigel Dawes and Curtis Lazar aren’t bonafide NHL snipers. Based on their WJC stats, they should have NHL jobs.

 

[nbwingsfan]

When you say all of them, you are pointing to two tournaments, one of which he played well in, and the other he was barely utilized. Elias Pettersson’s numbers at his first WJC would suggest that he’s not all that great, as did Vinny Lecavalier’s stats, but somehow teams foolishly ignored their performances at these tournaments.

And somehow Nigel Dawes and Curtis Lazar aren’t bonafide NHL snipers. Based on their WJC stats, they should have NHL jobs.

U-17
U-20
Hlinka
Top prospects game

That would be 4, I know counting can be hard to do.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

U-17
U-20
Hlinka
Top prospects game

That would be 4, I know counting can be hard to do.

You keep bringing up his WJC performance, I bring up other examples who produced similar results at the same tournament, and you choose to ignore those facts. The top prospects game is a single game, not a tournament. You keep stretching that narrative when people poke holes in your argument.

I guess he should be ashamed of his play as a 16 year old at the U17. A shame he can't produce like John McFarland or Teemu Pulkkinen, who turned out to become NHL all-stars after dominating those tournaments. Prospects suddenly stop developing based on their performances in international competition.

Too bad the examples I brought up never panned out. Maybe you can explain what happened with Eric Staal being cut from the 2003 WJC team, and the horrible production from the likes of Lecavalier and Pettersson and rationalize why they shouldn't have gone where they went in their draft classes. Explain to us why WJC superstars like Justin Pogge, Dustin Tokarski, Nigel Dawes, Curtis Lazar, among countless others, failed as NHLers.

Your logic is flawed and you're too stubborn to admit it, hence why you keep ignoring these facts. I know reading can be hard to do.

 

[jc17]

Like most debates we've seemed to hit the point where both "sides" are trying so hard to prove their point that there's no middle ground. So the more extreme the takes get on each side the more pushback there is.

I have byfield at 2 (for the time being at least) but I do think too many people are refusing to acknowledge anything that suggests him lower than 2.

It's generally accepted this is a great year for forwards. If it was a lousy draft byfield probably is a top 2 lock.

But you have:

Rossi: unreal numbers. Most guys that produce like he did are successful regardless of age. He led his team too. Ottawa was good but it wasn't a kane gagner situation. Good dy-1 stats as well which is important for an older guy.

Perfetti: also great numbers carrying his team. Like rossi, hes had 2 years of ohl production that put him in the company of almost exclusively top line players.

Raymond: historic numbers in swedish u20, has played professionally, decent WJC, spoken very highly of by fans and scouts alike.

Stutzle: bit of a wildcard, but played in a men's league, showed off his speed, hands, and vision there and at the WJC.

Throw in the fact byfield had much fewer points/game against top defensive teams than rossi/perfetti, had a lackluster WJC, and the lower certainty you get if you're throwing out his d-1 season because of his age, it should be easy to see why some people want to have a discussion on where he should go

Again I'm taking him at 2 if I'm the one picking, but it's not hard to see why other guys might be attractive

 

[NA Hockey]

You keep bringing up his WJC performance, I bring up other examples who produced similar results at the same tournament, and you choose to ignore those facts. The top prospects game is a single game, not a tournament. You keep stretching that narrative when people poke holes in your argument.

I guess he should be ashamed of his play as a 16 year old at the U17. A shame he can't produce like John McFarland or Teemu Pulkkinen, who turned out to become NHL all-stars after dominating those tournaments. Prospects suddenly stop developing based on their performances in international competition.

Too bad the examples I brought up never panned out. Maybe you can explain what happened with Eric Staal being cut from the 2003 WJC team, and the horrible production from the likes of Lecavalier and Pettersson and rationalize why they shouldn't have gone where they went in their draft classes. Explain to us why WJC superstars like Justin Pogge, Dustin Tokarski, Nigel Dawes, Curtis Lazar, among countless others, failed as NHLers.

Your logic is flawed and you're too stubborn to admit it, hence why you keep ignoring these facts. I know reading can be hard to do.

I have already stated that I thought he was good at the Hlinka, but he was just OK at the U17, not good at the Top Prospects and we can leave the WJC out. You can always name guys like you do above to fit any narrative of players that were good at an event and then never panned out or vice versa. The thing is almost every single super star in the NHL has had at least one signature performance at an event prior to being drafted, an event or tournament where they dominated and or would have been considered a top player. Byfield has never had that moment or event. He is a top prospect based on potential, which he deserves because the potential is limitless, but just has never had that breakout event.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Like most debates we've seemed to hit the point where both "sides" are trying so hard to prove their point that there's no middle ground. So the more extreme the takes get on each side the more pushback there is.

I have byfield at 2 (for the time being at least) but I do think too many people are refusing to acknowledge anything that suggests him lower than 2.

It's generally accepted this is a great year for forwards. If it was a lousy draft byfield probably is a top 2 lock.

But you have:

Rossi: unreal numbers. Most guys that produce like he did are successful regardless of age. He led his team too. Ottawa was good but it wasn't a kane gagner situation. Good dy-1 stats as well which is important for an older guy.

Perfetti: also great numbers carrying his team. Like rossi, hes had 2 years of ohl production that put him in the company of almost exclusively top line players.

Raymond: historic numbers in swedish u20, has played professionally, decent WJC, spoken very highly of by fans and scouts alike.

Stutzle: bit of a wildcard, but played in a men's league, showed off his speed, hands, and vision there and at the WJC.

Throw in the fact byfield had much fewer points/game against top defensive teams than rossi/perfetti, had a lackluster WJC, and the lower certainty you get if you're throwing out his d-1 season because of his age, it should be easy to see why some people want to have a discussion on where he should go

Again I'm taking him at 2 if I'm the one picking, but it's not hard to see why other guys might be attractive

Well, it's as I said--there are plenty of legit criticisms of him but if I'm going to make the case to anyone that I'm taking Byfield lower than 2, I think it's a lot smarter to not make a case based on what's totalling less than 20 games of over 200 of an otherwise overwhelmingly dominant track record. Otherwise history shows you typically end up on the wrong side of that call.

 

[nbwingsfan]

You keep bringing up his WJC performance, I bring up other examples who produced similar results at the same tournament, and you choose to ignore those facts. The top prospects game is a single game, not a tournament. You keep stretching that narrative when people poke holes in your argument.

I guess he should be ashamed of his play as a 16 year old at the U17. A shame he can't produce like John McFarland or Teemu Pulkkinen, who turned out to become NHL all-stars after dominating those tournaments. Prospects suddenly stop developing based on their performances in international competition.

Too bad the examples I brought up never panned out. Maybe you can explain what happened with Eric Staal being cut from the 2003 WJC team, and the horrible production from the likes of Lecavalier and Pettersson and rationalize why they shouldn't have gone where they went in their draft classes. Explain to us why WJC superstars like Justin Pogge, Dustin Tokarski, Nigel Dawes, Curtis Lazar, among countless others, failed as NHLers.

Your logic is flawed and you're too stubborn to admit it, hence why you keep ignoring these facts. I know reading can be hard to do.

Nope. You just keep bringing up players who were bad at the WJC (or players who were great as 19 year olds, which is entirely irrelevant).

I’m just pointing out that at no point has he really been one of the best players in ANY event where he’s playing against the best of the best.

I already said there are some exceptions (Staal) but the vast majority of the top prospects in a draft have at least one very good event. Byfield has never been the best player on his team in any of them, or even top 3. Does it mean he’s a bad player? Nope. Does it mean he’s going to fail? Nope. But it points to the concerns scouts already have about his lack of hockey IQ and that he won’t have the same success playing against actual good players in the NHL.

Do I still think he’s a top 3 prospect? Yes. But far from the guaranteed star he’s been talked about here.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I have already stated that I thought he was good at the Hlinka, but he was just OK at the U17, not good at the Top Prospects and we can leave the WJC out. You can always name guys like you do above to fit any narrative of players that were good at an event and then never panned out or vice versa. The thing is almost every single super star in the NHL has had at least one signature performance at an event prior to being drafted, an event or tournament where they dominated and or would have been considered a top player. Byfield has never had that moment or event. He is a top prospect based on potential, which he deserves because the potential is limitless, but just has never had that breakout event.

But isn’t that also throwing his two seasons in the OHL out the window, as well as his CHL and OHL Rookie of the Year awards? This is like basing a player’s body of work on a single game or a bad stretch. Of course when it comes to evaluating teenagers it’s different because you’re not looking at his past but looking ahead and projecting what he could become, and to me it seems foolish to do it based off of the examples being brought up.

Cody Hodgson had one of the best WJC performances and look at how his career went.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

If I am the Kings I would take Byfield. I think they will take Byfield. Just not passing up that potential.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Nope. You just keep bringing up players who were bad at the WJC (or players who were great as 19 year olds, which is entirely irrelevant).

I’m just pointing out that at no point has he really been one of the best players in ANY event where he’s playing against the best of the best.

I already said there are some exceptions (Staal) but the vast majority of the top prospects in a draft have at least one very good event. Byfield has never been the best player on his team in any of them, or even top 3. Does it mean he’s a bad player? Nope. Does it mean he’s going to fail? Nope. But it points to the concerns scouts already have about his lack of hockey IQ and that he won’t have the same success playing against actual good players in the NHL.

Do I still think he’s a top 3 prospect? Yes. But far from the guaranteed star he’s been talked about here.

Fair point, but if we’re to cherry pick these events, you have to look at how these performers have panned out without putting any weight to what they’ve done at other stages. We’ve seen a chock full of these WJC star performers fizzle out, and that’s not a platform I’m willing to go all in on in determining some teenagers future.

When you consider the fact that the likes of Nic Petan and Sam Reinhart put up as many points as Connor McDavid in 2016, and McDavid only scored one goal the year prior, it just goes to show that these games aren’t a determining factor in one’s career path. It’s just a sampling of games to to enjoy and evaluate.

Just a couple of years ago Alex Nylander scores 12 points and Elias Pettersson had one assist at the WJC. Now look at where both players are in their careers. I think the pageantry and hoopla of the tournament really has overblown how much weight these games carry in projecting careers.

 

[57special]

There's too many tools there to pass up Byfield in the top 3. Stutzle has good size and great skating, so an argument can be made for him, also. Maybe Raymond/Stutzle/Rossi/Holtz, will have an eye opening start to the 20-21 season in Europe and change some minds, while Byfield and other NA players are sitting at home. As I've said before, I've never seen Byfield play all that well, but I've seen enough that I would be running up to the podium to take him at #2.

 

[wetcoast]

Again, it’s not just one tournament, it’s all of them. He has not once come close to dominating these tournaments, which is not something you want to see and raises some serious concerns about his ability to play his game when the competition is ramped up. It’s not to say he’s a bad prospect, he’s easily top 5, but there are some definitive concerns on how his game is going to translate when he’s not playing against players who are all 99% weaker/smaller than him.

You really are hoping that Rob Blake and Pierre Dorian are reading this and then are swayed right?

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Still think Stutzle goes to LA and Byfield goes to Ottawa.

 

[nbwingsfan]

You really are hoping that Rob Blake and Pierre Dorian are reading this and then are swayed right?

He’s not dropping to 4th.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Guys, if you don't like Byfield, okay, but please don't use his race as a reason for why you don't like him. Jesus wouldn't be happy with you.

Dangerous comment to accuse someone of racism without overtly racist comments made by anyone.

 

[Great Panda 2]

Dangerous comment to accuse someone of racism without overtly racist comments made by anyone.

We will have to agree on disagreeing about that one.

Again though, the thread moved past that. No need to redig a convo that turned unhealthy.

 

[MBH]

You really are hoping that Rob Blake and Pierre Dorian are reading this and then are swayed right?

No more talking up Byfield from me. I think there's a 25 percent chance he drops to 4.

 

[MBH]

Dangerous comment to accuse someone of racism without overtly racist comments made by anyone.

What about dog-whistle/subtle racist comments?

 

[Artorius Horus T]

I respect others opinion but, for me Quinton Byfield is the #1 in this draft.
(no matter is gonna get picked first or second)

- Byfield is one of the youngest in this draft (not that far off being a 2021 draft eligible)
- Byfield has made lots of improvement, in every way, aspect of his game, each season in his career so far
- Byfield is a dream position player for all, current 31 teams in the NHL;
huge 6 foot 4, 6 foot 5 220 pound center, amazing skater, scores tons of goals and points as well as haves a solid all around game,
can throw to pp and pk and play equally well

 

[Hen Kolland]

But it points to the concerns scouts already have about his lack of hockey IQ and that he won’t have the same success playing against actual good players in the NHL.

......no it actually doesn't. It points to maturity level of the player, and I think the majority of posters realize how raw of a talent QB is. He's a guy that might end up in the NHL next year, but probably shouldn't. He has a lot of developing to do. The fact that he isn't ready to step on the big stage and outperform older and/or more "pro-ready" players does not point to his IQ in really any way, just his refinement level.

The only way you can assess a players hockey IQ is to watch the way he plays the game, not watch the stat line he produces, or identify the fact that he wasn't the best player for the national team he was on. If you want to dissect his hockey IQ based on game action that you've watched, and compare it to Lafreniere or Stutzle or Raymond or whatever prospect you'd like, then do that. Don't expect to convince others of some bullshit narrative you have already convinced yourself of.

 

[nbwingsfan]

......no it actually doesn't. It points to maturity level of the player, and I think the majority of posters realize how raw of a talent QB is. He's a guy that might end up in the NHL next year, but probably shouldn't. He has a lot of developing to do. The fact that he isn't ready to step on the big stage and outperform older and/or more "pro-ready" players does not point to his IQ in really any way, just his refinement level.

The only way you can assess a players hockey IQ is to watch the way he plays the game, not watch the stat line he produces, or identify the fact that he wasn't the best player for the national team he was on. If you want to dissect his hockey IQ based on game action that you've watched, and compare it to Lafreniere or Stutzle or Raymond or whatever prospect you'd like, then do that. Don't expect to convince others of some bullshit narrative you have already convinced yourself of.

I have already done so, many times, in this thread the past year. Instead of spending hours doing so again (just to be met with “LOL are you blind”) I can ALSO just point out that the game he plays right now does not work when competition is better, as evidenced by his inability to perform with the best at these events.

His game could easily improve and I’m sure it will as by all accounts he has a great work ethic, but as it stands now he will have to have better decision making/quicker decision making if he is to become the 100+ point player some here think he will be.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I have already done so, many times, in this thread the past year. Instead of spending hours doing so again (just to be met with “LOL are you blind”) I can ALSO just point out that the game he plays right now does not work when competition is better, as evidenced by his inability to perform with the best at these events.

His game could easily improve and I’m sure it will as by all accounts he has a great work ethic, but as it stands now he will have to have better decision making/quicker decision making if he is to become the 100+ point player some here think he will be.

Again, the performances at big events are moreso tied to the extent of which his game is raw, not due to the lack of ability. If he truly lacked the ability to think the game at a high level, he would not be a consensus lottery pick. Now that's not to say he should be held in the same discussion as Lafreniere or Perfetti in terms of being the smartest player in the draft, but he's every bit as "smart" as someone like Stutzle in my eyes. The dimension of his physical abilities, his shot, his skating, layered on a good, not exceptional hockey brain is why he absolutely should go #2, and should be closer to #1 than #3.

 

[Great Panda 2]

Again, the performances at big events are moreso tied to the extent of which his game is raw, not due to the lack of ability. If he truly lacked the ability to think the game at a high level, he would not be a consensus lottery pick. Now that's not to say he should be held in the same discussion as Lafreniere or Perfetti in terms of being the smartest player in the draft, but he's every bit as "smart" as someone like Stutzle in my eyes. The dimension of his physical abilities, his shot, his skating, layered on a good, not exceptional hockey brain is why he absolutely should go #2, and should be closer to #1 than #3.

I don't know about Stutzle being a hockey smart player. I mean he's got good vision for sure but he is weaker defensively and generally follows a set play (like most 17 year olds). When he does get that acceleration past the D, hes good at finding the passing lane (as is Byfield)but defensively I find him getting puck lost and puck watching at times (like a 17 year old often does). I find he's very Barzal like at carrying the puck moreso than the Marner comparable I often hear but thats its own thing

But yeah, neither Byfield nor Stutzle are low IQ players imho even though they have much of the same flaws. Only difference I find is that Stutzle can keep his head up a bit better when hes forced in the corner after accelerating past a D