C Nico Hischier - Halifax Mooseheads, QMJHL (2017, 1st, NJD) II

[haak84]

He reminds me of a young Pavel Datsyuk or Peter Forsberg. Those are absolutely players you build a franchise around. I'm not sure teams would necessarily tank in order to draft them, like a Matthews/McDavid, but they'd be more than happy to end up with them.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Who has said a damn thing about them being McDavid or Matthews? Those are exceptions that come along very rarely and not the standard for a good draft.

Its pretty hard for it not to be a bad draft if the top few of the draft are not of the absolute top level.

Not the fault of any of these kids. I think that type of talk is misplaced, but I don't know how people are now concluding that its not a bad draft because secondary tier players are going to turn into good players. Every draft has good hockey players. If this draft doesn't have the absolute top level players at the top of the draft, its going to be hard for it to not be a bad draft. I've seen absolutely nothing so far to not say 2017 wasn't a bad draft.

 

[93LEAFS]

Its pretty hard for it not to be a bad draft if the top few of the draft are not of the absolute top level.

Not the fault of any of these kids. I think that type of talk is misplaced, but I don't know how people are now concluding that its not a bad draft because secondary tier players are going to turn into good players. Every draft has good hockey players. If this draft doesn't have the absolute top level players at the top of the draft, its going to be hard for it to not be a bad draft. I've seen absolutely nothing so far to not say 2017 wasn't a bad draft.

All drafts tend to be fairly equal past the top 10, outside of rare outliers such as 2003 (in a good way).

Hischier and Patrick look good to start, and could be franchise players, they both have that potential, but this draft clearly lacked at the top and was comparable to 2011 and 2012 in that regard.

 

[VoidCreature]

Its pretty hard for it not to be a bad draft if the top few of the draft are not of the absolute top level.

Not the fault of any of these kids. I think that type of talk is misplaced, but I don't know how people are now concluding that its not a bad draft because secondary tier players are going to turn into good players. Every draft has good hockey players. If this draft doesn't have the absolute top level players at the top of the draft, its going to be hard for it to not be a bad draft. I've seen absolutely nothing so far to not say 2017 wasn't a bad draft.

I don't really care whether people think 2017 was a strong draft or not. You can find franchise players in bad drafts, and great players in bad ones.

Just look at the Rangers. You guys managed to find he-of-2-games Hugh Jessiman in the best draft in history. Marc Andre-Fleury went first that year, Eric Staal went second. Neither of them were generational, but they both won the Stanley Cup.

This thread is about Hischier, and his play, not the strength of the 2017 draft relative to other drafts. Hischier's playing fantastic, and that's all we as fans can ask for.

 

[VoidCreature]

All drafts tend to be fairly equal past the top 10, outside of rare outliers such as 2003 (in a good way).

Hischier and Patrick look good to start, and could be franchise players, they both have that potential, but this draft clearly lacked at the top and was comparable to 2011 and 2012 in that regard.

I don't think both of these things can be true. If they become franchise players the top was strong. If they don't it was weak.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't really care whether people think 2017 was a strong draft or not. You can find franchise players in bad drafts, and great players in bad ones.

Just look at the Rangers. You guys managed to find he-of-2-games Hugh Jessiman in the best draft in history. Marc Andre-Fleury went first that year, Eric Staal went second. Neither of them were generational, but they both won the Stanley Cup.

This thread is about Hischier, and his play, not the strength of the 2017 draft relative to other drafts. Hischier's playing fantastic, and that's all we as fans can ask for.

I do agree that good players are found in bad drafts, and I don't think anyone really cares about whether it was a good or bad draft, as long as their team got a good player. My team had two picks in the most recent draft, and I feel like we stole a top 10 player in the 20's, so I'n not bothered at all by the strength of the draft, my point is that lets not change around what is actually true just because certain players are doing well. They don't need to be tagged as "players from a bad draft", thats not something that sticks with them, but them being what they were advertised to be doesn't change the whole perspective of a draft, unless we are talking about McDavid types.

I think its very clear that 2017 was one of the worst drafts in recent memory. It makes no sense to me when people point to one player having success and say "see, the draft was actually a good draft." Why not just focus on the players without talking about their specific drafts? I think its really unfair to these players to either get the benefit of being part of a good draft or being part of a bad draft. It shapes the narrative around them based on things that have nothing to do with their specific playing ability.

 

[93LEAFS]

I don't think both of these things can be true. If they become franchise players the top was strong. If they don't it was weak.

Except so could have Landeskog, Yakupov, RNH, and Murray. We can only really judge drafts at the draft with the knowledge we have and this draft looked sub-par. Maybe they prove us wrong, but that remains to be seen. Remember, all of those guys except for Murray had good to great starts.

Could they prove people wrong, absolutely, but, I still don't like the odds of this draft looking good. Its also not just about the top 2, its about the 3 to 10 range which was also sub-par compared to what usually gets drafted at that postion. For example, 2014 was weak at the top in most peoples eyes, but had quality depth, atleast among forwards. Some exceed (Drai, Ehlers and Nylander) and some disappoint (Bennett, Dal Colle and Virtanen).

 

[VoidCreature]

Why not just focus on the players without talking about their specific drafts? I think its really unfair to these players to either get the benefit of being part of a good draft or being part of a bad draft. It shapes the narrative around them based on things that have nothing to do with their specific playing ability.

I wish it were this way as well.

 

[Emperoreddy]

There definitely was an unfair attitude that since Nico wasn’t a generational talent like McDavid or Matthews, that it didn’t really matter if you lost the lottery as you aren’t missing out on a top player.

It is annoying so far seems like a rubbish attitude by people trying to dismiss him before he ever laced up. Yes he isn’t generational, but this is still a special player and potential superstar

 

[BruinLVGA]

There definitely was an unfair attitude that since Nico wasn’t a generational talent like McDavid or Matthews, that it didn’t really matter if you lost the lottery as you aren’t missing out on a top player.

It is annoying so far seems like a rubbish attitude by people trying to dismiss him before he ever laced up. Yes he isn’t generational, but this is still a special player and potential superstar

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[BomaLightDevils]

From a Devils standpoint it was the perfect scenario to pick up probably the best player from the sold called "weak" draft and then stack up the other years/draft for good-->great players if the other years actually have the higher ceiling.

People just tend to forget that it's not always how good the draft is, it's how good your scouts is and right now I can't say how much faith I have in Paul Castron and he's crew.
So glad they went for Nico.

#ILoveToHockey

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I just think there is a bit of natural fatigue on the hype no matter how good Nico is or is going to be after having 2 drafts like 15 and 16 with 1OA players as good as Matthews and McDavid. If Nico was coming in after a couple normal 1OA picks there would probably be more excitement for him. But I think I said this earlier I think it is really a perfect situation for him to develop. There really isn't a lot of pressure on him right now relative to most top picks so he can just kind of naturally get used to the speed of the game without every part of his game getting picked apart.

 

[135ace]

I just think there is a bit of natural fatigue on the hype no matter how good Nico is or is going to be after having 2 drafts like 15 and 16 with 1OA players as good as Matthews and McDavid. If Nico was coming in after a couple normal 1OA picks there would probably be more excitement for him. But I think I said this earlier I think it is really a perfect situation for him to develop. There really isn't a lot of pressure on him right now relative to most top picks so he can just kind of naturally get used to the speed of the game without every part of his game getting picked apart.

I think you're right about a fatigue as well as a lack of enthusiasm for a non "generational" player. Nobody expected Nico and Nolan to be the next McDavid/Eichel or Matthews/Laine, but they aren't exactly a weak top 2. The way they're playing so far it certainly looks like they'll have better careers than your Ekblad/Mackinnon/Barkov/Hall types not to mention RNH, Yakupov etc. They could very well become superstars like Seguin/Taveras/Stamkos (maybe even better as as even these guys have been dissappointing in some respects). Let's give them some time and come back to this at the end of the year.

 

[Curufinwe]

I think you're understating how good Hall and Barkov are.

 

[Scorcho]

I think you're understating how good Hall and Barkov are.

Agree.

Not saying much about hall because bias, but Barkov is an underrated monster.

 

[EliasFTW]

I hope Nico and Nolan can push both teams into the playoffs and build great rivalries like years past. The battle of the Jersey Turnpike is more like a annoyance right now instead of hatred.

 

[Tryamkin]

It’s hard to come in after two / three franchise centres like McDavid, Matthews and Eichel and dominate with the same hype when it’s well known that he doesn’t have that generational talents. By no stretch of the imagination is he lack lustre, he’s gonna be a superstar 1st line center, he just won’t be one of those franchise can’t miss McDavid level players. Beating out Patrick was special enough as it is

 

[135ace]

Agree.

Not saying much about hall because bias, but Barkov is an underrated monster.

I really like both Barkov and Hall, but Hall is a winger so Nico and Nolan will both be more valuable if they reach Hall's level. As for Barkov, yeah, he's a beast, but he's had some injury issues and he plays in Florida. No way he'll be able to carry that mess of a team.

 

[My3Sons]

Its pretty hard for it not to be a bad draft if the top few of the draft are not of the absolute top level.

Not the fault of any of these kids. I think that type of talk is misplaced, but I don't know how people are now concluding that its not a bad draft because secondary tier players are going to turn into good players. Every draft has good hockey players. If this draft doesn't have the absolute top level players at the top of the draft, its going to be hard for it to not be a bad draft. I've seen absolutely nothing so far to not say 2017 wasn't a bad draft.

I’m sure you said this with an objective viewpoint but as aRangers fan I imagine a number of Devils and Flyers fans will take your words with a grain of salt.

 

[Edmonton East]

Its pretty hard for it not to be a bad draft if the top few of the draft are not of the absolute top level.

Not the fault of any of these kids. I think that type of talk is misplaced, but I don't know how people are now concluding that its not a bad draft because secondary tier players are going to turn into good players. Every draft has good hockey players. If this draft doesn't have the absolute top level players at the top of the draft, its going to be hard for it to not be a bad draft. I've seen absolutely nothing so far to not say 2017 wasn't a bad draft.

Curious, by your own logic, do you consider the 2003 draft a poor draft? I assume you'd have to in order to be consistent, no?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Curious, by your own logic, do you consider the 2003 draft a poor draft? I assume you'd have to in order to be consistent, no?

That was one of the best drafts ever. Why would I say its a poor draft?

 

[goonybird]

bad draft or not Hischier is an incredible hockey player.

so much for that strawman

 

[Edmonton East]

That was one of the best drafts ever. Why would I say its a poor draft?

Correct. But per your own words, if a draft doesn't have elite talent at the top, it is a bad/weak draft in your eyes. Fleury, Staal, Horton Zherdev, Vanek were top 5 FYI.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Correct. But per your own words, if a draft doesn't have elite talent at the top, it is a bad/weak draft in your eyes. Fleury, Staal, Horton Zherdev, Vanek were top 5 FYI.

Didn't say that. Re-read what I said.

 

[Edmonton East]

Didn't say that. Re-read what I said.

...Ok.

"Its pretty hard for it not to be a bad draft if the top few of the draft are not of the absolute top level.

Not the fault of any of these kids. I think that type of talk is misplaced, but I don't know how people are now concluding that its not a bad draft because secondary tier players are going to turn into good players. Every draft has good hockey players. If this draft doesn't have the absolute top level players at the top of the draft, its going to be hard for it to not be a bad draft. I've seen absolutely nothing so far to not say 2017 wasn't a bad draft."