C Michael McLeod - Mississauga Steelheads, OHL (2016, 12th, NJD)

[Brooklyndevil]

This kid is an all-around good player. The say he's captain material. Even if he scores between 40 & 50 points with his size and speed, his defense and face-off abilities and a very hard worker, he'll will be a great addition to the Devils. Can't wait. I see him making the Devils next season.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

This kid is an all-around good player. The say he's captain material. Even if he scores between 40 & 50 points with his size and speed, his defense and face-off abilities and a very hard worker, he'll will be a great addition to the Devils. Can't wait. I see him making the Devils next season.

I think that's probably most realistic, like a poor man's Ryan Kesler. He should be a very good player for a long time.

 

[puckfan13]

I respect that choice, that is a fine approach. Shero is a great GM. Siding with him will probably make you look right more times than not (though I'd say his drafting history is a bit suspect in comparison to his trading history).

Here's Shero's 1st round drafting history with the penguins

Jordan Staal #2
Angelo Esposito #20
Simon Despres #30
Beau Bennett #20
Joe Morrow #23
Derrick Pouliot #8
Olli Maatta #22

Not a great list, some disappointing reaches and questionable picks (that were at the time questionable and proven to be so later)

It is fairly well-known that Shero is not overly involved in the draft, particularly with regularly picking outside the top 10...

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

It is fairly well-known that Shero is not overly involved in the draft, particularly with regularly picking outside the top 10...

So you don't think he should be held responsible for his team's drafting history? I'm not so sure ownership feels the same way.

 

[BJD]

So you don't think he should be held responsible for his team's drafting history? I'm not so sure ownership feels the same way.

He should be held responsible for the team's drafting history. He is the one who hires the scouting staff. If they do a bad job it's his fault for hiring them.

 

[Edmonton East]

This kid is an all-around good player. The say he's captain material. Even if he scores between 40 & 50 points with his size and speed, his defense and face-off abilities and a very hard worker, he'll will be a great addition to the Devils. Can't wait. I see him making the Devils next season.

I think that's probably most realistic, like a poor man's Ryan Kesler. He should be a very good player for a long time.

Alright, you aren't the first person I've seen say this. Do people on this board think Ryan Kesler was some phenom? Strong 2 way game and 40-50 points IS RYAN KESLER. Not a "poor man's" version.

 

[93LEAFS]

Alright, you aren't the first person I've seen say this. Do people on this board think Ryan Kesler was some phenom? Strong 2 way game and 40-50 points IS RYAN KESLER. Not a "poor man's" version.

Ummm, Ryan Kesler scored 41 goals one year and had a peak of 3 years as a 60 to 70 point player. His numbers are also slightly depressed due to the fact he hasn't had a season where he started in the offensive zone more than the defensive zone. His 2-way game isn't strong either, it was elite, he has a Selke and 4 other top 5 finishes. If you think a strong 2 way game, and 40-50 points adequately sums up Ryan Kesler you are drastically underselling him.

 

[Edmonton East]

Ummm, Ryan Kesler scored 41 goals one year and had a peak of 3 years as a 60 to 70 point player. His numbers are also slightly depressed due to the fact he hasn't had a season where he started in the offensive zone more than the defensive zone. His 2-way game isn't strong either, it was elite, he has a Selke and 4 other top 5 finishes. If you think a strong 2 way game, and 40-50 points adequately sums up Ryan Kesler you are drastically underselling him.

Not even gonna respond to the last part since ya can't read and/or comprehend the 2 posts I quoted (which is what I was replying to).

Not going to argue the terminology of a "strong" vs "elite" 2 way game, which you seem to ridiculously want to do.

And lastly, some simple math for ya: Kesler has 493 points in 815 regular season games. 493/815= .6ppg X 82 games = 49.6 points

49.6 > 40
49.6 < 50

And you're saying this is an incorrect statement: Strong 2 way game and 40-50 points IS RYAN KESLER. Not a "poor man's" version.

Whatever

 

[93LEAFS]

Not even gonna respond to the last part since ya can't read and/or comprehend the 2 posts I quoted (which is what I was replying to).

Not going to argue the terminology of a "strong" vs "elite" 2 way game, which you seem to ridiculously want to do.

And lastly, some simple math for ya: Kesler has 493 points in 815 regular season games. 493/815= .6ppg X 82 games = 49.6 points

49.6 > 40
49.6 < 50

And your saying this is an incorrect statement: Strong 2 way game and 40-50 points IS RYAN KESLER. Not a "poor man's" version.

Whatever

So you are really just going to use there average and ignore peak performance. Kesler at his best was a 40 goal-70 point player with a strong two way game. That is a very unlikely scenario for McLeod to ever approach. By this logic of dividing players career totals and then averaging out, you are basically saying Zajac is equal to Kesler, which is just wrong.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Not even gonna respond to the last part since ya can't read and/or comprehend the 2 posts I quoted (which is what I was replying to).

Not going to argue the terminology of a "strong" vs "elite" 2 way game, which you seem to ridiculously want to do.

And lastly, some simple math for ya: Kesler has 493 points in 815 regular season games. 493/815= .6ppg X 82 games = 49.6 points

49.6 > 40
49.6 < 50

And your saying this is an incorrect statement: Strong 2 way game and 40-50 points IS RYAN KESLER. Not a "poor man's" version.

Whatever

Kesler is a 45-55 point player if his average is 50 points. A 40-50 point player, a guy who averages 10% less production but plays a strong 2 way game, is a poor man's Kesler.

 

[Edmonton East]

So you are really just going to use there average and ignore peak performance. Kesler at his best was a 40 goal-70 point player with a strong two way game. That is a very unlikely scenario for McLeod to ever approach.

You lose.

And he was a 40 goal scorer ONCE. His next highest season is 26! HFBoards gets crazier by the day. I'm supposed to use the outlier instead of his career average?

You quoted my initial statement which was 100% correct.

 

[Edmonton East]

Kesler is a 45-55 point player if his average is 50 points. A 40-50 point player, a guy who averages 10% less production but plays a strong 2 way game, is a poor man's Kesler.

Maybe you don't understand how ranges like "40-50" work. After all, that was the initial statement. Not to mention McLeod would be playing in a lower scoring era than Kesler did...meaning adjusting points of 45 in, say, 2018 would probably be dead on with Kesler's average, hilariously.

 

[93LEAFS]

You lose.

And he was a 40 goal scorer ONCE. His next highest season is 26! HFBoards gets crazier by the day. I'm supposed to use the outlier instead of his career average?

You quoted my initial statement which was 100% correct.

He had a 3 year peak as a 65 point player. You really think McLeod is capable of that ceiling, but even if he isn't that he will be more consistent? You are actually delusional, if you are going to ignore peak performance, and how Kesler is utilized. Very few players will put up good numbers when starting in the defensive zone at the rate he does.

And I'm just wondering, how much McLeod have you actually seen? He plays for my local OHL team, so I'm more than familiar with his game.

 

[Edmonton East]

He had a 3 year peak as a 65 point player. You really think McLeod is capable of that ceiling, but even if he isn't that he will be more consistent? You are actually delusional, if you are going to ignore peak performance, and how Kesler is utilized. Very few players will put up good numbers when starting in the defensive zone at the rate he does.

And I'm just wondering, how much McLeod have you actually seen? He plays for my local OHL team, so I'm more than familiar with his game.

Bud, that was never the argument. I haven't said one thing about what I expect from McLeod. Not one in this debate. Just keep seeing him called a poor man's Kesler over and over and over.

Which HFboards does with every single prospect that has a strong 2 way game + offensive upside.

People say strong 2 way, 40-50 point player would be a poor man's Kesler....and it wouldn't. That would be Kesler numbers. That's the argument. His numbers prove it. Especially in the lower scoring years these prospects would likely be playing under.

 

[93LEAFS]

Bud, that was never the argument. I haven't said one thing about what I expect from McLeod. Not one in this debate. Just keep seeing him called a poor man's Kesler over and over and over.

Which HFboards does with every single prospect that has a strong 2 way game + offensive upside.

People say strong 2 way, 40-50 point player would be a poor man's Kesler and it wouldn't. That would be Kesler numbers. That's the argument. His numbers prove it. Especially in the lower scoring years these prospects would likely be playing under.

Except Kesler's two way game isn't strong. Its among the best in the league, and how he is utilized depresses his point totals. That's like me saying because someone has a strong offensive game they are comparable to Patrick Kane or Gaudreau. I like McLeod's game, but I don't see him as a perennial Selke contender, which Kesler is.

 

[Edmonton East]

So you are really just going to use there average and ignore peak performance. Kesler at his best was a 40 goal-70 point player with a strong two way game. That is a very unlikely scenario for McLeod to ever approach. By this logic of dividing players career totals and then averaging out, you are basically saying Zajac is equal to Kesler, which is just wrong.

Okay, I was gonna let this go, but your argument is awful here again.

In this very post you are arguing to take Kesler's top season and assume it as the real type of player he is. If I do that for Zajac, then he is a 25/40/65 guy. You also argue for using Kesler's top 3 years. If I did that for Zajac, he is a 59 point per season player.

Now, let's logically use Zajac's career average as I did with Kesler: 46 points per season player. Take a guess which is more correct? Thanks for proving my point with your horrid argument.

Honestly can't believe you are arguing I use an outlier 40 goal season as the main basis of assessing a player when his next highest goal total is 26. Insanity.

 

[93LEAFS]

Okay, I was gonna let this go, but your argument is awful here again.

In this very post you are arguing to take Kesler's top season and assume it as the real type of player he is. If I do that for Zajac, then he is a 25/40/65 guy. You also argue for using Kesler's top 3 years. If I did that for Zajac, he is a 59 point per season player.

Now, let's logically use Zajac's career average as I did with Kesler: 46 points per season player. Take a guess which is more correct? Thanks for proving my point with your horrid argument.

Except Zajac is nowhere near the defensive player Kesler is. Just averaging point totals doesn't tell the whole picture. Kesler as pointed out multiple times, (which you willfully ignore) is a perennial Selke candidate, finished top 10 in Hart voting once, and gets way tougher zone-starts than Zajac. Zajac in his career year was starting in the offensive zone close to a 60/40 split between offensive and defensive zone starts. Kesler has never started more in the offensive zone than the defensive zone in his entire career.

 

[Edmonton East]

Except Zajac is nowhere near the defensive player Kesler is. Just averaging point totals doesn't tell the whole picture. Kesler as pointed out multiple times, (which you willfully ignore) is a perennial Selke candidate, finished top 10 in Hart voting once, and gets way tougher zone-starts than Zajac. Zajac in his career year was starting in the offensive zone close to a 60/40 split between offensive and defensive zone starts. Kesler has never started more in the offensive zone than the defensive zone in his entire career.

You're too much. Lose an argument. Create incoherent new argument that doesn't pertain to opponent's initial point at all. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[93LEAFS]

You're too much. Lose an argument. Create incoherent new argument that doesn't pertain to opponent's initial point at all. Rinse. Repeat.

No, I'm actually not. You are saying that a strong 40 to 50 point player is what Ryan Kesler is. You assume all points are equal, and being strong defensively is equal, which is a joke. You really think McLeod is going to be a perennial Selke candidate, because that is what Ryan Kesler is.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Truth is Devils would have to be very lucky for Mcleod to turn out to be as good as Kesler. I think he'll fall short of that but will be a useful middle six player. that's my guess. Obviously some will think he meets or even exceeds that but there is no argument. There are no facts you can point to that will make one side of it more right than the other. Time will tell ... till then your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Edmonton East]

No, I'm actually not. You are saying that a strong 40 to 50 point player is what Ryan Kesler is. You assume all points are equal, and being strong defensively is equal, which is a joke. You really think McLeod is going to be a perennial Selke candidate, because that is what Ryan Kesler is.

I never said that lol...I already told you that once. You clearly still aren't getting it. Oh well.

You took my comment as either (or maybe both):

1) A slight at Ryan Kesler, even though calling him a strong 2 way, 40-50 point player is factually correct....

2) McLeod will be as good as Kesler which, once again, I never, ever, ever, ever said. I never even compared the two....

 

[93LEAFS]

I never said that lol...I already told you that once. You clearly still aren't getting it. Oh well

No, you aren't getting it. Because that is what Ryan Kesler is, you are trying to say he is only his point total, which is ridiculous. So yeah, I think its fair to project someone as a poor-man's Kesler if you don't think they are going to be a top 5 defensive forward in the league. Which you don't seem to grasp. You just post point totals, and completely ignore usage.

 

[Edmonton East]

No, you aren't getting it. Because that is what Ryan Kesler is, you are trying to say he is only his point total, which is ridiculous. So yeah, I think its fair to project someone as a poor-man's Kesler if you don't think they are going to be a top 5 defensive forward in the league. Which you don't seem to grasp. You just post point totals, and completely ignore usage.

I called Kesler a strong 2 way, 40-50 point player and you lost your ****. You tried to use points/goals and they worked against your own arguments several times.

 

[93LEAFS]

I called Kesler a strong 2 way, 40-50 point player and you lost your ****. You tried to use points/goals and they worked against your own arguments several times.

I also mentioned that he finished top 5 in 4 Selke votes in the first post, and you just ignored it. But great, can't wait to see a peak of McLeod getting 70 points, and see him at the NHL awards multiple times when nominated as the best defensive forward in the game. You flat out think Zajac and Kesler are comparable because of a career point ratio, but choose to ignore the type of minutes that Kesler plays. The only centers who produce close to Kesler and are used in a similar manner over the last couple years is Backes. But "Strong 2-way game and 40-50 point player" is a Kesler level player. Glad to know Kadri is now on Kesler's level.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Maybe you don't understand how ranges like "40-50" work.

Kesler is a career 49.6 point player, with peak seasons being much better. Calling him a 40-50 point player is disingenuous. By your logic, Kesler is also a 49-59 point player. It's much more reasonable to call a career 50 point player a 45-55 point player. Seems like you don't understand how ranges work.

After all, that was the initial statement. Not to mention McLeod would be playing in a lower scoring era than Kesler did...meaning adjusting points of 45 in, say, 2018 would probably be dead on with Kesler's average, hilariously.

You have no way of knowing what scoring will be like in the future. I would be surprised if McLeod had a peak anywhere near that of Kesler, so I wouldn't be surprised to see his career average production be closed to 40 points (based on what today's scoring looks like). Heck, earlier in this thread I think I called him a 35-50 point player.

In any case, it seems like you are getting way too wound up about this Kesler thing.