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C Michael McLeod - Mississauga Steelheads, OHL (2016, 12th, NJD)

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Again like I said before like many "big" players before him gets the label "he skate great for he's size" but that don't mean it's great compare with a normal size player. I've watch video but I see a big problem in him with how he's wheels are. NJ has drafted so many players not like him but with emphasis on size and other stuff then skating and I can tell you that's why we up to 2 years ago didn't have any forwards coming up.

Everybody who follows hockey know the game has changed tremendously the last 5 years or so but I don't think that people actually know how important it is to could skate and move. The level only increases for brown and I think he could get in to troubles when getting to the nhl level IF he can't get a lot better moving he's feet
 
What was the difference between a player like Bastian and Brown at the end of January?

45 points in 40 games Brown
45 points in 46 games Bastian

Obviously Brown completely started playing possessed but if what if Bastian continued to play center with Nylander and put up similar numbers?
 
Jason MacIsaac said:
What was the difference between a player like Bastian and Brown at the end of January?

45 points in 40 games Brown
45 points in 46 games Bastian

Obviously Brown completely started playing possessed but if what if Bastian continued to play center with Nylander and put up similar numbers?
Click to expand...

What if Bastian put up 38 points in 25 games? is that what you are asking?
 
BomaLightDevils said:
Again like I said before like many "big" players before him gets the label "he skate great for he's size" but that don't mean it's great compare with a normal size player. I've watch video but I see a big problem in him with how he's wheels are. NJ has drafted so many players not like him but with emphasis on size and other stuff then skating and I can tell you that's why we up to 2 years ago didn't have any forwards coming up.

Everybody who follows hockey know the game has changed tremendously the last 5 years or so but I don't think that people actually know how important it is to could skate and move. The level only increases for brown and I think he could get in to troubles when getting to the nhl level IF he can't get a lot better moving he's feet
Click to expand...

I will take the scouts position over yours. My concern with Brown is the "half year blah, half year stud" issue. I suspect this is what had a team like NJ back off. If New Jersey read the tea leaves right, they win that trade. If not, they still have a quality NHLer just not as good as Brown.

Now to be a little bit more in depth. Colorado took Jost at #10 and not Brown nor McLeod. That is interesting as well.
 
Jason MacIsaac said:
What was the difference between a player like Bastian and Brown at the end of January?

45 points in 40 games Brown
45 points in 46 games Bastian

Obviously Brown completely started playing possessed but if what if Bastian continued to play center with Nylander and put up similar numbers?
Click to expand...

People would have rightly came to the conclusion that Bastian's numbers were heavily influenced by Nylander, whereas Brown actually outscored Fischer by 2 points in those last 25 games.
 
Jason MacIsaac said:
What was the difference between a player like Bastian and Brown at the end of January?

45 points in 40 games Brown
45 points in 46 games Bastian

Obviously Brown completely started playing possessed but if what if Bastian continued to play center with Nylander and put up similar numbers?
Click to expand...

Not sure what the point of asking this is, for a number of reasons..

1. It didn't happen.
2. Brown is still a better player than Bastian, with a higher ceiling. He's got a better two-way game, plays the more premium position, and can PK.
 
McLeod with an unassisted breakaway goal today in the Devil's scrimmage. Making things happen all over the ice. He's a beast.
 
WhiskeyYourTheDevils said:
People would have rightly came to the conclusion that Bastian's numbers were heavily influenced by Nylander, whereas Brown actually outscored Fischer by 2 points in those last 25 games.
Click to expand...

Weird how Bastian and Nylander played alone together.. wonder who was the 3rd player on their line
 
The back tracking comment from the Flyers fan was really weird, the initial disappointed reaction was because fans were reading Keller and Jost mocked to the Devils for months so they got the idea in their head that one of those would happen. That's pretty much every fanbase because it's not like the NFL draft where you see these guys every week in college.

McLeod and Bastian were two of the better players at camp so it will be interesting to follow Mississauga this year. There are former #1 overall picks putting up 50 point seasons so if that's where McLeod peaks with a strong two way game I wouldn't consider that disappointing at all. Watching him skate circles around guys in the short ice 3on3 was pretty fun.
 
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Hass said:
What if Bastian put up 38 points in 25 games? is that what you are asking?
Click to expand...
I guess yes, it seems point totals completely dictate how a player is perceived. I pick this date because Brown was trending down by this point and Bastian was on the way up. If Bastian has a solid finish to the season is he a top 20 pick?
 
Captain Timo said:
Not sure what the point of asking this is, for a number of reasons..

1. It didn't happen.
2. Brown is still a better player than Bastian, with a higher ceiling. He's got a better two-way game, plays the more premium position, and can PK.
Click to expand...
When McLeod was injured Bastian had 4 goals and 5 assists in 8 games with 30 shots playing center. Over a 56 game season that is 28 goals 35 assists 63 points and 210 shots. Yes i know he didn't do that over the course of a full year but I still think his best potential is at center.
 
McLeod and Brown were picked among a tier of about 7-8 kids from #7-8th to #15-16th. The kids and org's have a lot of control and stake in what happens from here on out... we don't. They're still in the same tier until they prove otherwise and that won't happen until they hit the ice in the fall. Just hope that your team made the right decision and enjoy the ride.
 
At this stage, being upset with who we picked is like being upset that a guy ahead of you in line bought a lottery ticket that you wanted. We don't have a damn clue who picked the right guy.

There's not much evidence behind most of the cases being made for either player. There isn't any reason to have very strong opinions yet. At least let it play out for a bit before complaining.
 
All of the posts talking about his great camp with NJ so far and the one Ronnie posted from the former Habs scout have gone ignored for the most part.

Even people who didn't want NJ to pick McLeod at first should be excited about what he's done since being drafted. Some say he's been the best player at camp by far.

I'm not going to act like I knew anything about him before the draft. I was in the camp that wanted Keller, Jost, or Brown but I'm not going to act like I really knew anything about them either. Just what other people were saying about them. It's not like I watched any of them live or even watched anything more than highlights of them.

I don't know how Brown has been doing in Ottawa so far but by all accounts McLeod has been exceeding expectations so far.
 
SteveCangialosi123 said:
At this stage, being upset with who we picked is like being upset that a guy ahead of you in line bought a lottery ticket that you wanted. We don't have a damn clue who picked the right guy.

There's not much evidence behind most of the cases being made for either player. There isn't any reason to have very strong opinions yet. At least let it play out for a bit before complaining.
Click to expand...

Here is what I don't get. I've spent the last 2 years researching and watching a lot of these players, of course I am going to have opinions on which players I like over others. In fact, this site is filled with people who enjoy passionately sharing their opinions on hockey prospects who have never set foot on NHL ice. You could say its a primary feature of the site, given that it's called hockey's future .

Suppose the Devils selected Sam Steel with that pick, is it still too soon to complain? How about Calvin Thurkauf?
 
WhiskeyYourTheDevils said:
Here is what I don't get. I've spent the last 2 years researching and watching a lot of these players, of course I am going to have opinions on which players I like over others. In fact, this site is filled with people who enjoy passionately sharing their opinions on hockey prospects who have never set foot on NHL ice. You could say its a primary feature of the site, given that it's called hockey's future .

Suppose the Devils selected Sam Steel with that pick, is it still too soon to complain? How about Calvin Thurkauf?
Click to expand...

McLeod and Brown were on the same tier. I respect that you have your own opinions, but frankly I'm going to trust the Devils brass right now. Shero hasn't given me a reason to doubt him yet. There's nothing wrong with projecting what a guy will be or comparing them to someone else, but at some point you have to realize that professional scouts don't hold the views you do.

The burden is on you to present evidence why it was the wrong pick. And that isn't really possible yet short of stats or physical measurements. And even then it doesn't mean all that much. I'm choosing to be excited with who the experts chose.
 
SteveCangialosi123 said:
McLeod and Brown were on the same tier. I respect that you have your own opinions, but frankly I'm going to trust the Devils brass right now. Shero hasn't given me a reason to doubt him yet. There's nothing wrong with projecting what a guy will be or comparing them to someone else, but at some point you have to realize that professional scouts don't hold the views you do.

The burden is on you to present evidence why it was the wrong pick. And that isn't really possible yet short of stats or physical measurements. And even then it doesn't mean all that much. I'm choosing to be excited with who the experts chose.
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I respect that choice, that is a fine approach. Shero is a great GM. Siding with him will probably make you look right more times than not (though I'd say his drafting history is a bit suspect in comparison to his trading history).

Here's Shero's 1st round drafting history with the penguins

Jordan Staal #2
Angelo Esposito #20
Simon Despres #30
Beau Bennett #20
Joe Morrow #23
Derrick Pouliot #8
Olli Maatta #22

Not a great list, some disappointing reaches and questionable picks (that were at the time questionable and proven to be so later)
 
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WhiskeyYourTheDevils said:
I respect that choice, that is a fine approach. Shero is a great GM. Siding with him will probably make you look right more times than not (though I'd say his drafting history is a bit suspect in comparison to his trading history).

Here's Shero's 1st round drafting history with the penguins

Jordan Staal #2
Angelo Esposito #20
Simon Despres #30
Beau Bennett #20
Joe Morrow #23
Derrick Pouliot #8
Olli Maatta #22

Not a great list, some disappointing reaches and questionable picks (that were at the time questionable and proven to be so later)
Click to expand...

Shouldn't you be looking at Paul Castron's drafting history? It's at LEAST as applicable as Shero's. Quite a bit more imo.
 
WhiskeyYourTheDevils said:
I respect that choice, that is a fine approach. Shero is a great GM. Siding with him will probably make you look right more times than not (though I'd say his drafting history is a bit suspect in comparison to his trading history).

Here's Shero's 1st round drafting history with the penguins

Jordan Staal #2
Angelo Esposito #20
Simon Despres #30
Beau Bennett #20
Joe Morrow #23
Derrick Pouliot #8
Olli Maatta #22

Not a great list, some disappointing reaches and questionable picks (that were at the time questionable and proven to be so later)
Click to expand...
Last I checked we had a different head scout and scouting department than Pittsburgh. I'm sure Shero made all those picks with his gut though..
 
Esposito was, at one point, a "next one" type like Tavares, Stamkos, Hall, etc.

He plummeted at the draft though so it was a decent pick taking into account draft position and the high risk/high reward nature of it.

Rest are certainly a mix of good and not-so-good
 
Jason MacIsaac said:
Last I checked we had a different head scout and scouting department than Pittsburgh. I'm sure Shero made all those picks with his gut though..
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I don't pretend to know what the decision making process was for those picks, I just know that at the end of the day, Shero is in charge.

And it's not like the Devils 1st round drafting has been any better since the lockout. Conte is gone, which may or may not help. We'll have to see.

All I'm saying is that when you combine Shero's 1st round drafting history with that of the Devils, it becomes far from unreasonable to question the decision making of certain picks, especially at forward.
 
goonybird said:
Esposito was, at one point, a "next one" type like Tavares, Stamkos, Hall, etc.

He plummeted at the draft though so it was a decent pick taking into account draft position and the high risk/high reward nature of it.

Rest are certainly a mix of good and not-so-good
Click to expand...

It's not awful drafting by any means. But it is fairly mediocre, especially with the higher, more important picks. Staal never should have gone ahead of Toews, Backstrom, or Kessel.

It's not an indictment of his abilities as a drafting GM, but it does establish 'reasonable doubt'. In this case, I'm not sure if Shero has a strong enough drafting record to be free from criticism.
 

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