C Michael McLeod - Mississauga Steelheads, OHL (2016, 12th, NJD)

[Roo Mad Bro]

lack of creativity?

all I see watching the kid play is creativity. what non sense to claim he has nond

I know the Devils don't have too many creative offensive players, so maybe your interpretation of the phrase is different than mine and many others.

Here is from Hockey Prospect's Black Book:

"While we don’t see him as a dumb player, we do think his decision making lacks at times...McLeod does everything at a high pace, to a fault in fact. He needs to watch his own linemate (Nylander) to see how to create gaps in the offensive zone by changing his pace. Too often, Mike is his own worst enemy...His skating is high end, he works hard, he has great size but just too many missed scoring chances and poor puck decisions for us to rank him higher."

 

[Baemon Severson*]

I know the Devils don't have too many creative offensive players, so maybe your interpretation of the phrase is different than mine and many others.

Here is from Hockey Prospect's Black Book:

"While we don’t see him as a dumb player, we do think his decision making lacks at times...McLeod does everything at a high pace, to a fault in fact. He needs to watch his own linemate (Nylander) to see how to create gaps in the offensive zone by changing his pace. Too often, Mike is his own worst enemy...His skating is high end, he works hard, he has great size but just too many missed scoring chances and poor puck decisions for us to rank him higher."

Nothing in that quote had anything to do with creativity. It was more about his skating getting him into trouble by not changing gears enough.

 

[Roo Mad Bro]

Nothing in that quote had anything to do with creativity. It was more about his skating getting him into trouble by not changing gears enough.

And that ties into creativity lol. Your brain controls your legs. Some players just don't know how to change gears. Push the pace constantly non stop. That gets predictable (Grabner and Hagelin are good examples of this trait).

Playing any type of sport competitively at high levels, the hardest people to defend are the creative, unpredictable players. Change of pace plays a major role in that. Keeps the defenders off balance. If you only know one speed, dmen can account for that factor.

Look at a guy like Keller. Guy oozes creativity offensively. Changes pace, uses various moves to create space or beat guys.

 

[Captain Timo]

And that ties into creativity lol. Your brain controls your legs. Some players just don't know how to change gears. Push the pace constantly non stop. That gets predictable (Grabner and Hagelin are good examples of this trait).

Playing any type of sport competitively at high levels, the hardest people to defend are the creative, unpredictable players. Change of pace plays a major role in that. Keeps the defenders off balance. If you only know one speed, dmen can account for that factor.

Look at a guy like Keller. Guy oozes creativity offensively. Changes pace, uses various moves to create space or beat guys.

Darren Helm is another example. If he could figure out how to utilize his speed rather than going full tilt 100% of the time, he could easily be a 30-30 guy.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Nothing in that quote had anything to do with creativity. It was more about his skating getting him into trouble by not changing gears enough.

It's hard to be creative when you don't know how to effectively change gears. . .

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

It's hard to be creative when you don't know how to effectively change gears. . .

So if he puts up 90 points in 60 games this year does that mean he developed creativity?

 

[Jayevs]

So if he puts up 90 points in 60 games this year does that mean he developed creativity?

Of course not you would have to watch him and see how he put up those 90 points.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Of course not you would have to watch him and see how he put up those 90 points.

Yes because the majority of people in this thread have watched him with interest...
Perceptions are made based on results, it always will be that way with amateur viewers.

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

I know the Devils don't have too many creative offensive players, so maybe your interpretation of the phrase is different than mine and many others.

Here is from Hockey Prospect's Black Book:

"While we don’t see him as a dumb player, we do think his decision making lacks at times...McLeod does everything at a high pace, to a fault in fact. He needs to watch his own linemate (Nylander) to see how to create gaps in the offensive zone by changing his pace. Too often, Mike is his own worst enemy...His skating is high end, he works hard, he has great size but just too many missed scoring chances and poor puck decisions for us to rank him higher."

so i dont understand creativity but you do by posting something that has nothing to do with creativity?

the kid is creative and his speed helps him be creative - just because he needs to learn when to control his speed doesnt mean he lacks imagination or creativity

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

It's hard to be creative when you don't know how to effectively change gears. . .

its hard to actually judge a player when you have bias toward them before you ever watch them

see how that works?

 

[AD1066]

so i dont understand creativity but you do by posting something that has nothing to do with creativity?

the kid is creative and his speed helps him be creative - just because he needs to learn when to control his speed doesnt mean he lacks imagination or creativity

I know the Devils don't have too many creative offensive players, so maybe your interpretation of the phrase is different than mine and many others.

Here is from Hockey Prospect's Black Book:

"While we don’t see him as a dumb player, we do think his decision making lacks at times...McLeod does everything at a high pace, to a fault in fact. He needs to watch his own linemate (Nylander) to see how to create gaps in the offensive zone by changing his pace. Too often, Mike is his own worst enemy...His skating is high end, he works hard, he has great size but just too many missed scoring chances and poor puck decisions for us to rank him higher."

Bolded seemed pretty relevant to me.

 

[Zippy316]

so i dont understand creativity but you do by posting something that has nothing to do with creativity?

the kid is creative and his speed helps him be creative - just because he needs to learn when to control his speed doesnt mean he lacks imagination or creativity

Him controlling his speed is rooted back to his creativity.

He has yet to find a balance of when to go fast/slow to create offensively or open up space. That is part of the creativity problem.

You're confusing his skills with his creativity. You can have all the skills in the world but not be able to see the ice or make the right decisions to create scoring chances. Tedenby is a good comparable here for Devils fans. A player can fly up and down the ice and dangle all he wants, but if he doesn't accomplish anything with it, is he really creative?

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

Him controlling his speed is rooted back to his creativity.

He has yet to find a balance of when to go fast/slow to create offensively or open up space. That is part of the creativity problem.

You're confusing his skills with his creativity. You can have all the skills in the world but not be able to see the ice or make the right decisions to create scoring chances. Tedenby is a good comparable here for Devils fans. A player can fly up and down the ice and dangle all he wants, but if he doesn't accomplish anything with it, is he really creative?

dont try and teach me the english language. McLeod is creative and talking about how he sometimes skates faster than his brain doesn't mean he lacks creativity. if you had watched him at the prospect camp youd know he is plenty creative.

and try this one on for size. go watch any of the highlight videos of the Nylander-Mcleod-Bastian line and tell me that line isnt creative and Mcleod isnt 'seeing the ice well'. oh but lemme guess, THEY had the creativity not Mcleod.

im glad i have people telling me how a players ive watched plenty of footage on doesnt have creativity based on a block of text they read from one website.

 

[Captain Timo]

dont try and teach me the english language. McLeod is creative and talking about how he sometimes skates faster than his brain doesn't mean he lacks creativity. if you had watched him at the prospect camp youd know he is plenty creative.

and try this one on for size. go watch any of the highlight videos of the Nylander-Mcleod-Bastian line and tell me that line isnt creative and Mcleod isnt 'seeing the ice well'. oh but lemme guess, THEY had the creativity not Mcleod.

im glad i have people telling me how a players ive watched plenty of footage on doesnt have creativity based on a block of text they read from one website.

Errrr... If you've really watched "plenty of footage" of McLeod and more specifically, that line, you'd know it's Nylander that is the creative piece between the three of McLeod, Nylander and Bastian.

McLeod really isn't that creative, that's reality. He goes full flight all the time, and he has simply not been able to utilize his speed in a creative manner, which 'creative' players do. Being able to switch up speeds and throw off defenders by doing so is huge, especially in the NHL.

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

Errrr... If you've really watched "plenty of footage" of McLeod and more specifically, that line, you'd know it's Nylander that is the creative piece between the three of McLeod, Nylander and Bastian.

McLeod really isn't that creative, that's reality. He goes full flight all the time, and he has simply not been able to utilize his speed in a creative manner, which 'creative' players do. Being able to switch up speeds and throw off defenders by doing so is huge, especially in the NHL.

haha I was waiting for someone like you to comment that. so youre telling me that Mcleod is blind when it comes to creativity and it was all Nylander. what, did Nylander telepathically tell Mcleod where to pass the pucks?

and now youre going to judge a player based on 'how to do it in the NHL'. wow what an assessment, to think a junior player might have some parts of his game that he needs to work on before the NHL, shocker.

if changing gears for speed is what creativity is, then Gretzky was right all along; creativity is dead. what does Mcleod have to do to show creativity hmm? spin around in circles and make blind home run passes?

the argument for him lacking creativity is he skates too fast... lmfao you learn something new on HF everyday. next ill be told that imagination actually only comes from an empty cardboard box and Spongebob runs the show.

 

[Captain Timo]

haha I was waiting for someone like you to comment that. so youre telling me that Mcleod is blind when it comes to creativity and it was all Nylander. what, did Nylander telepathically tell Mcleod where to pass the pucks?

and now youre going to judge a player based on 'how to do it in the NHL'. wow what an assessment, to think a junior player might have some parts of his game that he needs to work on before the NHL, shocker.

if changing gears for speed is what creativity is, then Gretzky was right all along; creativity is dead. what does Mcleod have to do to show creativity hmm? spin around in circles and make blind home run passes?

the argument for him lacking creativity is he skates too fast... lmfao

Well, someone is salty. I'm not going to discuss things with you if you're just going to be petty and upset because I'm not pumping McLeod's tires.

If you don't think the ability to change speeds in order to throw off defenders is a sign of creativity, then so be it. But the majority of people who watch hockey will disagree.

I never said it was all Nylander. But he was the driver of the line, the creative piece of the three. He made the plays happen, it's not that difficult to understand.

You're attacking other posters for supposedly not watching the Steelheads, but I'm honestly wondering if you did at all? Doesn't quite seem like you did..

 

[AfroThunder396]

I've never seen anyone knock his creativity outside of this thread. The knock I've seen on McLeod is his sub-par shot and lack of finish.

Michael McLeod is a highly skilled power center who relies on nobody but himself to get the job done. His size and skating make him difficult to contain, and his competitiveness gives him an edge against other teams' best. His deft puckhandling skills and control over his speed are the defining aspects of his offensive abilities. All-in-all, a top talent who is both dynamic and hard to play against. (Curtis Joe, EP 2015)

See more at: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=240821#sthash.6hvcWcig.dpuf

McLeod is an absolute speedster, with great top end speed and outstanding acceleration. McLeod might be the fastest skater in this entire draft- he’s that fast. On top of that he has excellent agility, and the ability to change directions quickly. McLeod uses his skating ability to its full advantage to elude defenders and open up passing and shooting lanes when working off the rush, or even when playing the cycle game. McLeod has good size and is strong on his skates, which is a great asset in working along the boards and in front of the net.

McLeod shows strong passing skills and excellent vision. He makes strong, tape-to-tape passes both off the rush and in the cycle game. McLeod has a good release on his wrist shot, however it lacks power. It can be improved with a little bit more muscle being packed on to his frame. He needs to use his shot more often though, as he can sometimes get caught up looking for the pass instead of taking good shooting opportunities. Added to a non-stop motor to go along with his strong skating, McLeod also shows the willingness and ability to get in quickly on the forecheck. He pressures defenders and creates turnovers and mistakes, which then create offence for himself and his linemates. He gets into the dirty areas, whether that be battling for pucks in the corner, or establishing position in front of the net.

http://lastwordonsports.com/2016/04/08/michael-mcleod-scouting-report-2016-nhl-draft-9/

McLeod is an exciting two-way player with leadership qualities who happens to be one of the best skaters available for the coming NHL draft. He has one-step acceleration which helps him keep defenders off balance once the puck ends up on his stick. From that point forward, it’s off to the races, as McLeod combines his speed with keen vision to not only identify others for an option or two, but create one for himself. The best word to describe McLeod’s game is rapid — everything he does is with effort and a sense of urgency. What separates McLeod from the lot of draft-eligible speedsters is that he has the size, strength and puck-control skills to go along with it. He’s an excellent passer either up the ice or diagonally in the offensive zone, and his ability to thread the needle while moving his feet can force opponents to cheat towards the pass. This creates a parting of the seas, and many times you’ll see McLeod zoom into a massive opening for a scoring chance of his own. Therein lies the rub, however, as McLeod generates a ton of shots towards the cage without the kind of finish you’d like to see from a high-end scoring forward. Nevertheless, he’s a pure center with good faceoff skills and a relentless desire to succeed. There’s no quit in McLeod; something many of his peers are clearly lacking.

http://www.thedraftanalyst.com/prospects/michael-mcleod/

February 2016 - McLeod is a very strong skater, has good size for a first line center, is a reliable two-way player and strong on draws. His skill set in terms of playmaking, puck control and shooting is strong, but what I feel is his greatest area of opportunity is his creativity offensively. McLeod has drawn comparisons to Jonathan Toews, and while their styles are similar I am not sure his offensive upside is that high in terms of the NHL level. Still a sure-fire future NHL player and one a team can build a winning team around as a 2-3 center.

http://www.dobberprospects.com/michael-mcleod/

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

Well, someone is salty. I'm not going to discuss things with you if you're just going to be petty and upset because I'm not pumping McLeod's tires.

If you don't think the ability to change speeds in order to throw off defenders is a sign of creativity, then so be it. But the majority of people who watch hockey will disagree.

I never said it was all Nylander. But he was the driver of the line, the creative piece of the three. He made the plays happen, it's not that difficult to understand.

You're attacking other posters for supposedly not watching the Steelheads, but I'm honestly wondering if you did at all? Doesn't quite seem like you did..

if you judge a players creativity based on how he changes gears than youre right we dont need to continue this conversation. and dont try and make it seem like 'everyone who watches hockey would know' because I can assure you you dont speak for the entire hockey fan base.

oh and let me ask this: if a player changing gears ACTUALLY CORRELATED to creativity, are you telling me that if Mcleod learned to do so he is all of a sudden creative? creativity, just like imagination, is not learned and is a thought process. it has zero to do with Mcleod's physical ability to slow himself down.

what is it called when Mcleod skates himself into a corner? perhaps a lack of reasoning. and I never once argued that he lacks some reasoning because he does skate himself into trouble. but if you take that as a knock on his creativity then idk what to tell you.

 

[Captain Timo]

if you judge a players creativity based on how he changes gears than youre right we dont need to continue this conversation. and dont try and make it seem like 'everyone who watches hockey would know' because I can assure you you probably havent been a season ticket holder for a team for over 25 years and seen over a thousand games in person.

oh and let me ask this: if a player changing gears ACTUALLY CORRELATED to creativity, are you telling me that if Mcleod learned to do so he is all of a sudden creative? creativity, just like imagination, is not learned and is a thought process. it has zero to do with Mcleod's physical ability to slow himself down.

what is it called when Mcleod skates himself into a corner? perhaps a lack of reasoning. and I never once argued that he lacks some reasoning because he does skate himself into trouble. but if you take that as a knock on his creativity then idk what to tell you.

But it is creativity.. If he learned how to change gears and use his speed more effectively then good god, he would be an incredible player. His IQ isn't elite by any means but he's still a decently smart player, but you simply can't go full speed 100% of the time. Though there are other factors (hands, IQ, shot), the ability to change speeds and switch gears while in play separates the truly elite guys and the speedy guys. Think Kane/Gaudreau versus Grabner/Helm. The latter are better skaters, but they just go all out, they have no clue how to switch things up to throw off a defender. Lack of creativity/IQ.

And yeah, it has nothing to do with McLeod's physical ability to slow himself down. It's his IQ. He doesn't realize that switching things up rather than going all out 100% is a better way to go about his business. Sure, it's great for some players, but when you're skilled like he is, it really holds him back. His speed is great, but it'd be so much better if he knew how to utilize it in a more meaningful way. Being a hound on the puck is great, but being able to do that AND confuse defenders would be a billion times better.

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

But it is creativity.. If he learned how to change gears and use his speed more effectively then good god, he would be an incredible player. His IQ isn't elite by any means but he's still a decently smart player, but you simply can't go full speed 100% of the time. Though there are other factors (hands, IQ, shot), the ability to change speeds and switch gears while in play separates the truly elite guys and the speedy guys. Think Kane/Gaudreau versus Grabner/Helm. The latter are better skaters, but they just go all out, they have no clue how to switch things up to throw off a defender. Lack of creativity/IQ.

And yeah, it has nothing to do with McLeod's physical ability to slow himself down. It's his IQ. He doesn't realize that switching things up rather than going all out 100% is a better way to go about his business. Sure, it's great for some players, but when you're skilled like he is, it really holds him back. His speed is great, but it'd be so much better if he knew how to utilize it in a more meaningful way. Being a hound on the puck is great, but being able to do that AND confuse defenders would be a billion times better.

okay but what I dont understand is if all he needs to learn is to change gears more effectively (to be creative), than doesnt that mean he is creative already? no way does a player learn to be creative just by practicing one aspect of their game. creativity comes from playing with friends or scrimmaging (unless your coach does nothing but practice plays and zones). creativity isnt just picked up as easily as changing gears on the ice can be.

thats my point. i dont disagree that he needs to practice on his ability to slow the game down (which will only lend more to his creativity. notice i said 'lend more to' not 'allow him to be creative'). but if he learns how to slow the game down and then is all of a sudden creative; my argument there is he had the creativity all along.

 

[Captain Timo]

okay but what I dont understand is if all he needs to learn is to change gears more effectively (to be creative), than doesnt that mean he is creative already? no way does a player learn to be creative just by practicing one aspect of their game. creativity comes from playing with friends or scrimmaging (unless your coach does nothing but practice plays and zones). creativity isnt just picked up as easily as changing gears on the ice can be.

thats my point. i dont disagree that he needs to practice on his ability to slow the game down (which will only lend more to his creativity. notice i said 'lend more to' not 'allow him to be creative'). but if he learns how to slow the game down and then is all of a sudden creative; my argument there is he had the creativity all along.

Lack of creativity doesn't mean not creative. He can be creative, but he could be significantly more creative as he already is if he knew how to utilize his speed.

I agree though, he already is somewhat creative, I never denied that.

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

Lack of creativity doesn't mean not creative. He can be creative, but he could be significantly more creative as he already is if he knew how to utilize his speed.

I agree though, he already is somewhat creative, I never denied that.

so then the argument is that he is creative but he could be more creative if he learned how to slow down and open space?

i mean I guess, that seems pretty obvious though. i thought the argument was he is not creative, which AfroThunder pointed out he has been touted as an amazing passer and that has to do with creativity.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

its hard to actually judge a player when you have bias toward them before you ever watch them

see how that works?

It is, too bad that doesn't apply to me . . . How many times had you seen McLeod before he was a Devil?

 

[Rhodes 81]

its hard to actually judge a player when you have bias toward them before you ever watch them

see how that works?

So you're telling me that either you A) watched a significant enough amount of McLeod game tape to form a good opinion of him before the draft or B) were completely unbiased when watching him after the Devils picked him and your desire for the Devils to have made a good pick weighs not at all on your opinion of McLeod.

Somehow I just don't think either of those is true. Bias does work both ways, you can't call it as a legitimate argument for or against any opinion. It is only legitimate if you are using it in context with a logical fallacy, which you haven't done here.

On topic with the thread, altering your speed is certainly a part of creativity and it is certainly a part that McLeod could work on. I do think it is overblown in this current argument, though. It is also a part of creativity that can be taught.

And all the creativity in the world doesn't mean anything without decision making to go along with it. the two are not the same thing. If they were, Max Afinogenov would have been the greatest player of his generation. There is a delicate balance between creativity, decision making, physical ability, and vision that plays into a good hockey player. Skew too much in any one direction and you will lose effectiveness.

When discussing a prospect that hasn't played a minute of professional hockey, I find it much more useful to discuss their aptitude in these generalities and how those characteristics have traditionally helped other players to translate to the NHL than it is to dive into minutia such as how good someone is at changing their speed.

 

[Tripod]

Obviously a different era, but Russ Courtnall was a guy that was the same way McLeod is being described. Did everything at top speed but his brain could not always keep up with his feet.