C Matthew Savoie - Moose Jaw Warriors, WHL (2022, 9th, BUF, traded to EDM) - PART 2

[Pavel Buchnevich]

There is zero question about his skating, the other stuff sure to a small degree but not skating.

But you don’t know that. You aren’t an expert. The experts with sources have reported it. Don’t criticize the messenger.

 

[wetcoast]

But you don’t know that. You aren’t an expert. The experts with sources have reported it. Don’t criticize the messenger.

I'm no skating expert to be sure to my hockey eyes his skating is excellent even if I can't break it down in technical terms.

Edgework is the one area where he isn't the best but it's not going to be a problem for him with all of his other skills at play and hockey IQ.

If he had low hockey IQ sure it would be a concern but it sure isn't to me.

Is he the best in all areas of skating in this draft? I doubt it but his skating isn't a concern.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

But you don’t know that. You aren’t an expert. The experts with sources have reported it. Don’t criticize the messenger.

Seriously? Are you just trolling this thread at this point. You need to be an expert with sources to figure out if a guy can skate?. How about just watching him play?
As i pointed out on the last page, the one 'expert' scout you named called his skating "good, not great". Others have praised his skating, and those that didn't never mentioned it as a weakness. How about you link us to some 'expert' opinions that consider his skating a weakness?
EDIT: Adding link
Matthew Savoie | Matthew Savoie Profile | Matthew Savoie Scouting Report 2022 (mynhldraft.com)

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Seriously? Are you just trolling this thread at this point. You need to be an expert with sources to figure out if a guy can skate?. How about just watching him play?
As i pointed out on the last page, the one 'expert' scout you named called his skating "good, not great". Others have praised his skating, and those that didn't never mentioned it as a weakness. How about you link us to some 'expert' opinions that consider his skating a weakness?
EDIT: Adding link
Matthew Savoie | Matthew Savoie Profile | Matthew Savoie Scouting Report 2022 (mynhldraft.com)

Am I trolling? Is this some type of projection joke?

No, I am relaying what the people who have actual NHL sources say are the criticisms of his game. Someone asked why he won’t go first and I was trying to give them a helpful answer.

I didn’t insert any opinion into any of it. You seem mad that your opinion is different than the experts. Take that up with them.

And for the record, your link that you provided is not a good accounting of what’s been said before. If you read Pronman’s articles and listen to his podcast, you will understand that he says rather consistently that this is a criticism scouts tell him of Savoie.

 

[Tutu to]

I read his comment as meaning ''their skating is elite, and I don't see how anyone could say otherwise.''

That’s what I meant lol

 

[covfefe]

Am I trolling? Is this some type of projection joke?

No, I am relaying what the people who have actual NHL sources say are the criticisms of his game. Someone asked why he won’t go first and I was trying to give them a helpful answer.

I didn’t insert any opinion into any of it. You seem mad that your opinion is different than the experts. Take that up with them.

And for the record, your link that you provided is not a good accounting of what’s been said before. If you read Pronman’s articles and listen to his podcast, you will understand that he says rather consistently that this is a criticism scouts tell him of Savoie.

Pronman is talking out of his ass because his skating is outstanding. Truly the last thing I would complain about re: Savoie

The Analysis: A deep look at Matthew Savoie's game - FCHockey

Just watch the clips in this article. It doesn't take a skating expert to see that...this guy is an outstanding skater.

If Savoie has skating knocks, so do Cooley and Nazar, which is ridiculous because both are very solid skaters.

Basically like saying Stamkos has a muffin shot, Scott Stevens was soft, or that P. Kane has stone hands. I couldn't pick a more diametrically opposite angle if I tried.

 

[Corso]

Pronman is talking out of his ass because his skating is outstanding. Truly the last thing I would complain about re: Savoie

The Analysis: A deep look at Matthew Savoie's game - FCHockey

Just watch the clips in this article. It doesn't take a skating expert to see that...this guy is an outstanding skater.

If Savoie has skating knocks, so do Cooley and Nazar, which is ridiculous because both are very solid skaters.

Basically like saying Stamkos has a muffin shot, Scott Stevens was soft, or that P. Kane has stone hands. I couldn't pick a more diametrically opposite angle if I tried.

I don't think Pronman ever said that skating was a concern regarding Savoie. If I were to paraphrase his opinion, it was that of a good skater but perhaps not elite. The only real issue with Savoie that some (scouts-journalists and general wannabees) have is his size. He,however, plays much bigger than 5'9 and I would be shocked if any team out of the top 3 or 4 pass on him. He's a legit gamer with a super high ceiling.

 

[McFlash97]

This guy challenges for the Art Ross before anyone else in the next 2 drafts.

His overall dynamic skillset is second to none.

Bedard and him go toe to toe in their primes.

 

[mratch19]

I don't think Pronman ever said that skating was a concern regarding Savoie. If I were to paraphrase his opinion, it was that of a good skater but perhaps not elite. The only real issue with Savoie that some (scouts-journalists and general wannabees) have is his size. He,however, plays much bigger than 5'9 and I would be shocked if any team out of the top 3 or 4 pass on him. He's a legit gamer with a super high ceiling.

Someone asked why Savoie was snubbed from Canada (on the athletic world juniors team projection article) and Pronman responded because of pp points and 'not dynamic skating'. I do think Savoie has slowed down since putting on weight! Provorov is a good example of putting on too much muscle (imo) and Mackinnon even had one year I think he was too big and he slowed down. Palat mentioned in an interview he stopped lifting heavy in the offseason because he found it slowed him down too much during the season, so he switched to primarily mobility work. But Savoie is young so I suspect he'll get back to that insane skating he had as a younger player (age 13-16). I don't blame him for bulking up though as he's taken some pretty darn big hits... Having said all that I'd consider his skating as still dynamic and elite. I don't know how you could watch the Ice this year and agree with him not being a dynamic skater. Multiple instances I've seen him catch a guy on the back check where he had no business catching them, or even just his breakaway speed! He's also really good on his edges and with his crossovers, imo.

 

[Big Empty]

This guy challenges for the Art Ross before anyone else in the next 2 drafts.

His overall dynamic skillset is second to none.

Bedard and him go toe to toe in their primes.

I’d rather get 2nd overall at this point and take Savoie.

Whoever gets the 1st pick is going to feel pressured to take Shane Wright and I think it’s going to be a mistake.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

I’d rather get 2nd overall at this point and take Savoie.

Whoever gets the 1st pick is going to feel pressured to take Shane Wright and I think it’s going to be a mistake.

I think it's gonna be a much closer race than we think for the 1st overall, but the gap is closing between Savoie and Wright production wise tho. Savoie has cooled down a little bit lately and Wright has been red hot. I think his chance to go first overall are lowering because of that.

PPG 12 games ago:
Savoie: 1.727
Wright: 1.2

PPG now:
Savoie: 1.529
Wright: 1.363

Plus his non-selection from Team Canada may play against him.

 

[Garnet76]

Is this guy a center in the NHL?

 

[93LEAFS]

I think it's gonna be a much closer race than we think for the 1st overall, but the gap is closing between Savoie and Wright production wise tho. Savoie has cooled down a little bit lately and Wright has been red hot. I think his chance to go first overall are lowering because of that.

PPG 12 games ago:
Savoie: 1.727
Wright: 1.2

PPG now:
Savoie: 1.529
Wright: 1.363

Plus his non-selection from Team Canada may play against him.

I'll wait until Bob's mid-year. But, I'm not really hearing it's a two-horse race between Wright and Savoie anywhere but people here. Not that Wright has that spot locked up (he doesn't), but it's more wide-open than just those 2.

 

[Baaaaaaaaaaaaah]

Is this guy a center in the NHL?

Probably not. There are barely any C's in the NHL under 5'11.

 

[covfefe]

Probably not. There are barely any C's in the NHL under 5'11.

Aside from Tampa winning the last two cups running 5’9 centres as their 1 and 2 in terms of TOI

I think he’s a winger at the next level because a) he isn’t particularly good at face offs, and b) he will have more success opening up the ice on quick breaks/turnovers if he’s on the wing.

 

[HuGo Sham]

who's his comparable, marner?

 

[YEGJuniorFan]

who's his comparable, marner?

Brayden Point? And maybe a bit of Phil the thrill Kessel for how dangerous he is off the rush.

 

[HuGo Sham]

Brayden Point? And maybe a bit of Phil the thrill Kessel for how dangerous he is off the rush.

thank you

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

who's his comparable, marner?

I like the St Louis comparison a lot. Both stronger little guys with great releases, puck skills, and vision. I also see maybe a smaller Zibanejad?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I'll wait until Bob's mid-year. But, I'm not really hearing it's a two-horse race between Wright and Savoie anywhere but people here. Not that Wright has that spot locked up (he doesn't), but it's more wide-open than just those 2.

I've never seen a draft that's less of a 2 horse race. A lot of that is probably due to missed development time / cancelled WJC. If Wright does lose claim as undisputed 1st overall, it's going to be an absolute crapshoot. There's about half a dozen players who could go 1st or 10th.

I feel like 2006 and maybe 2011 are the only recent drafts I can recall where there was even close to as much uncertainty surrounding the top of the draft.

 

[McFlash97]

Savoie is a potential future Art Ross winner. Quote me.

elite skating, vision and a very good shot. All the tools are there.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Aside from Tampa winning the last two cups running 5’9 centres as their 1 and 2 in terms of TOI

I think he’s a winger at the next level because a) he isn’t particularly good at face offs, and b) he will have more success opening up the ice on quick breaks/turnovers if he’s on the wing.

Point is listed at 5’10.

 

[Locks]

Point is listed at 5’10.

Point was drafted at 5-9 and we don't know if he's grown since then or, as is often the case, he is just "listed' an inch taller.

 

[wetcoast]

I’d rather get 2nd overall at this point and take Savoie.

Whoever gets the 1st pick is going to feel pressured to take Shane Wright and I think it’s going to be a mistake.

Personably I think Wright has a really solid high floor of a top level 2nd line center in the NHL whose game will still be there in the playoffs.

Alot of the "concern" has been from stat watchers, not scouts.

I think the more interesting question will be if someone goes for the big center in Winnipeg before Savoie, that team might be sorry and I'm high on Geekie.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Personably I think Wright has a really solid high floor of a top level 2nd line center in the NHL whose game will still be there in the playoffs.

Alot of the "concern" has been from stat watchers, not scouts.

I think the more interesting question will be if someone goes for the big center in Winnipeg before Savoie, that team might be sorry and I'm high on Geekie.

Where do you project Geekie to go? I have read mixed reports on him. Some as high as 2nd overall and some as low as the 8-12 range.

As a Kraken fan, I expect that we miss out on Wright and Savoie and may end up picking Geekie (if available) between where we pick (4-8 range).