C Mathew Barzal - Seattle Thunderbirds, WHL (2015, 16th, NYI) II

[Jason MacIsaac]

This kid has a Saku Koivu vibe to him. Lets hope his his body gets off to a better start than Koivu's.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

My bad on Hanifen, wasn't really thinking in terms of D. Does 6th change my point that drastically though?

Strome has more question marks to me than Barzal. Skating is pretty important in the NHL now days. If he is going to become a legit 1C in the NHL with his skating, then his game better be out of this world. If hes becomes a solid 2C in the NHL, well I think Barzal is a lock to become a legit 2C as well.

Connor is impressive and I am a big fan. But I think Barzal is the better player. Barzal's IQ and play-making ability is off the charts. Plus the center factor never hurts. Connor is going to have a lot of competition in Winnipegs top six. Islanders are drooling to mold Barzal into that 2C slot behind Tavares.

Marner I think could easily become of the best offensive players in this draft. But what is his body weight at right now? He has a long way to go to prove he can play at the level he does in the NHL with that size. He truly has the skill to become the next Kane/Gaudreau player, but that is not going to be easy for him to accomplish. If he can't I don't for see him exactly being a defensive catalyst. If he doesn't reach his ceiling, Barzal playing C could easily be the more valuable commodity between the two.

The only player I can't argue about is Rantanen. Kind of hard to make a case against the stats he put up in the AHL also considering that was his first year playing in NA.

I just don't see Barzals game not translating into the NHL.

Agreed. Barzal's skating and IQ make him a good bet to make the big leagues. I have Marner ahead of him, but wouldn't be at all surprised to see Barzal end up better.

 

[scott99]

I really think it's up to Barzal if he makes the team. If he performs the same or better than last year's camp, he makes the team. Snow needs to do whatever makes the team better. If Barzal proves himself and management feels him being on the team makes the team better, then so be it. Who gives a **** about the 1st year of the ELC. It's all about putting the best team out there.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I really think it's up to Barzal if he makes the team. If he performs the same or better than last year's camp, he makes the team. Snow needs to do whatever makes the team better. If Barzal proves himself and management feels him being on the team makes the team better, then so be it. Who gives a **** about the 1st year of the ELC. It's all about putting the best team out there.

He's too good to play in the WHL for another year. Not sure how it would help him as a player going back for another year. Considering he was impressive last year in camp, and almost made it by some reports. With a year of playing a lot of hockey, WHL+WJC+Playoff run. I can certainly see him making the Isles this year. He has a lot more foundation under him this year that he didn't have last year coming off an injury shortened season.

 

[phillipsj89]

He's too good to play in the WHL for another year. Not sure how it would help him as a player going back for another year. Considering he was impressive last year in camp, and almost made it by some reports. With a year of playing a lot of hockey, WHL+WJC+Playoff run. I can certainly see him making the Isles this year. He has a lot more foundation under him this year that he didn't have last year coming off an injury shortened season.

This is my thinking. T-Birds fans are desperately hoping he returns, but i doubt it.

 

[puckfan13]

He is not too good to play in the WHL. Yes, he's going to be an elite scorer.

What NYI needs to do is have a development plan for him that is DETAIL ORIENTED and make sure the HC, GM and assistants on Seattle are on the same page. Barzal can absolutely round out his game, competitiveness, attention to detail and making his game more direct at the junior level. He needs a coach that understands what it takes to be an NHL player (his coach played 900 games in the league) and isn't afraid to call him out and push him and make him uncomfortable even if he can set up plays at will. On nights where he is dogging it, not competing, making too fancy of plays with the puck - he needs to be called out by his coach and corrected. In some environments, the coach may not have the wherewithal or b*alls some might say... to do that. It is dependent on the development environment - it is NOT black and white.

If you unequivocally say a player has nothing left to learn at junior when the other alternative is tossing him into the NHL to get eaten alive by a highly-stressed out coach who lives and dies with wins and losses... you have not thought your position out well.... development goes out the window when you're on a 4-game losing streak, that is a reality of life in the NHL. Development goes out the window when you're attention to detail costs your team a goal a game in three straight games. You will be sitting in the press box.

That is just my opinion take it or leave it.... but if you have a plan, you're organized, have buy-in from the player, and Seattle and NYI are on the same page, another year of junior absolutely will not hurt him and could be very productive.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

In the end, Barzal's play in preseason will determine if he needs more WHL development or is better served developing behind Tavares and learning under good pros like the newly acquired A Ladd in the NHL. 19 year old rookies in their draft + 1 year in particular talented players nowadays is a norm in the NHL. If Barzal earns a spot with the Isles I think it will help his development rather than hinder it. Barzal will determine where he fits.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

I am one of the biggest Barzal supporters there is, but I have to say, by no means is he too good for the WHL. Yes he is an elite talent and has potential to make the Isles and will most likely be the best player in the WHL next season, but there is still a lot for him to learn before he starts his NHL career and I honestly feel the WHL is still an extremely good option for him next year

 

[haulinbass]

I think he is definitely the type of player that could handle going into the NHL at his age. I could see him handling the 3C role for a year or two and slowly progressing into a solid 2C. To me his play style if very transferable to the NHL. So I don't think you could go wrong with either option for this kid.

Obviously the most ideal thing for him would be the AHL for a season...

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I am one of the biggest Barzal supporters there is, but I have to say, by no means is he too good for the WHL. Yes he is an elite talent and has potential to make the Isles and will most likely be the best player in the WHL next season, but there is still a lot for him to learn before he starts his NHL career and I honestly feel the WHL is still an extremely good option for him next year

I see the bolded used to describe a lot of talented prospects, and I shake my head every time. 95% of the time it's hyperbole used to describe a player who was great in junior, but not necessarily "too good" for the league.

Not a knock on Barzal individually, it's just something I've noticed. Prospect A puts up great, but not out of this world numbers, he's "too good for junior". Very, very few players are actually "too good" for junior to the point where they can learn absolutely nothing, zero, zip if they returned. Crosby, McDavid, Kane, Tavares, etc. were in that category. The prospects below their tier? It's usually hyperbole to describe them having very good seasons.

 

[Semantics]

I see the bolded used to describe a lot of talented prospects, and I shake my head every time. 95% of the time it's hyperbole used to describe a player who was great in junior, but not necessarily "too good" for the league.

Not a knock on Barzal individually, it's just something I've noticed. Prospect A puts up great, but not out of this world numbers, he's "too good for junior". Very, very few players are actually "too good" for junior to the point where they can learn absolutely nothing, zero, zip if they returned. Crosby, McDavid, Kane, Tavares, etc. were in that category. The prospects below their tier? It's usually hyperbole to describe them having very good seasons.

Yup, I think another year of junior could be really good for him. He was elite in the WHL for sure, and has the skill to play in the NHL, but he didn't really "Gretzky" the league the way guys like Strome or Ehlers did theirs. He looks on track to be a 2C right now, but another year where he'd take on the challenge of developing his offensive game to another level and pushing that 2PPG mark could be really valuable. He's not going to get the same opportunity to really push the boundaries on his offensive creativity in the NHL where you can't afford to make mistakes. Plus the experience of getting to play a leadership role at the WJC would be pretty nice.

 

[Zaddy]

Ya, definitely think Barzal could use another year in the WHL. Won't hurt him in any way. He needs more time IMO. He's the type of player you don't want to rush. If you take it slow with him you'll get rewarded eventually.

 

[Curufinwe]

I'm not sure how developed he is physically in comparison, but Giroux clearly benefited from a second post draft year in Junior.

Most of us on the Flyers board think Provorov is too good for the WHL, but he's built like a brick ****house.

 

[LordNeverLose]

I'm not sure how developed he is physically in comparison, but Giroux clearly benefited from a second post draft year in Junior.

Most of us on the Flyers board think Provorov is too good for the WHL, but he's built like a brick ****house.

He's on the far right. Looks pretty physically developed

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

He's on the far right. Looks pretty physically developed

I like this picture of him a lot too. This is him with Luke Willson of the Seattle Seahawks.

Doesn't look "big" but looks very strong. Willson is 6'5". Barzal looks like he's 6'1", which is bigger than when he was drafted (right?).

 

[Felix Unger]

Doesn't look "big" but looks very strong. Willson is 6'5". Barzal looks like he's 6'1", which is bigger than when he was drafted (right?).

I don't think there are size concerns with Barzal at all. Also I don't think there should be disagreement about whether Barzal is too good for junior or whatever. That's silly. The question for the NHL is one of ice time. In particular, whether he needs to be sheltered from a zone-start POV. It hurts the lineup if he can't take DZ draws (because NYI do want JT on OZ draws). The biggest concern about his game I have is his faceoffs. If he's terrible on draws, he really can't play a 2nd-3rd line center role. If he's bad on draws, he's going to get less icetime than Casey Cizikas (who will take those draws), which effectively makes Barzal a 4th line center. And that may not be good for his development.

 

[whlscowt]

I like this picture of him a lot too. This is him with Luke Willson of the Seattle Seahawks.

Doesn't look "big" but looks very strong. Willson is 6'5". Barzal looks like he's 6'1", which is bigger than when he was drafted (right?).

That hat data corruption.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

I don't think there are size concerns with Barzal at all. Also I don't think there should be disagreement about whether Barzal is too good for junior or whatever. That's silly. The question for the NHL is one of ice time. In particular, whether he needs to be sheltered from a zone-start POV. It hurts the lineup if he can't take DZ draws (because NYI do want JT on OZ draws). The biggest concern about his game I have is his faceoffs. If he's terrible on draws, he really can't play a 2nd-3rd line center role. If he's bad on draws, he's going to get less icetime than Casey Cizikas (who will take those draws), which effectively makes Barzal a 4th line center. And that may not be good for his development.

yup... that's something ive always said too... he does everything absolutely perfect as a centerman, but his faceoffs are atrocious. Looks extremely weak on draws.

 

[haulinbass]

yup... that's something ive always said too... he does everything absolutely perfect as a centerman, but his faceoffs are atrocious. Looks extremely weak on draws.

Do you know what his faceoff % was for the last couple seasons? Watching all his available film I also got the impression he wasn't particularly strong at draws. He seemed like he might be somewhere around 50% in juniors. I would assume you need to be a lot better than that in juniors to have any shot at having a decent FO% in the NHL.

If anyone knows where to find those stats that would be great.

 

[FLYguy3911]

The WHL is the only CHL league that doesn't publicly record faceoff stats.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Do you know what his faceoff % was for the last couple seasons? Watching all his available film I also got the impression he wasn't particularly strong at draws. He seemed like he might be somewhere around 50% in juniors. I would assume you need to be a lot better than that in juniors to have any shot at having a decent FO% in the NHL.

If anyone knows where to find those stats that would be great.

ya I honestly don't know. It's almost as though he just doesn't try in faceoffs when you watch. Like maybe he knows he isn't quite strong enough. But his IQ is so damn high that when he does lose a draw, he is able to instantly get pressure on that player or read exactly what that player will do with the puck and intercept the puck and cause turnovers... its stupid to say cause obviously it cant be true(or can it???), but it almost seems like at times he loses draws on purpose and skates hard onto that dman who has the puck and makes him turn it over and create quick chances due to the opposing team collapsing due to the turnover. Sometimes you just get that feeling of a intentional loss.. he is a very exciting player to watch. I strongly suggest if people haven't seen him play, go out of your way and do it. He's definitely worth the time

 

[Felix Unger]

ya I honestly don't know. It's almost as though he just doesn't try in faceoffs when you watch. Like maybe he knows he isn't quite strong enough. But his IQ is so damn high that when he does lose a draw, he is able to instantly get pressure on that player or read exactly what that player will do with the puck and intercept the puck and cause turnovers... its stupid to say cause obviously it cant be true(or can it???), but it almost seems like at times he loses draws on purpose and skates hard onto that dman who has the puck and makes him turn it over and create quick chances due to the opposing team collapsing due to the turnover. Sometimes you just get that feeling of a intentional loss.. he is a very exciting player to watch. I strongly suggest if people haven't seen him play, go out of your way and do it. He's definitely worth the time

That's not a good defensive zone NHL strategy, that's for sure.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

That's not a good defensive zone NHL strategy, that's for sure.

haha sorry I meant offensive zone!!

 

[Felix Unger]

haha sorry I meant offensive zone!!

Frans Nielsen got nearly 500 DZ faceoffs.
Casey Cizikas got close to the same.

With Nielsen gone, somebody has to take those draws. If that someone is going to end up being Brock Nelson, Barzal probably won't make the team.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Frans Nielsen got nearly 500 DZ faceoffs.
Casey Cizikas got close to the same.

With Nielsen gone, somebody has to take those draws. If that someone is going to end up being Brock Nelson, Barzal probably won't make the team.

agreed.

I strongly feel Barzal will be back in junior for one more year

Honestly, I cringe when Barzal has to take draws in the DZ in junior, I cant imagine him taking those draws against grown men. Who knows, maybe this offseason he has been working on his strength and working on his face offs. We will see come training camp