C Mathew Barzal - Seattle Thunderbirds, WHL (2015, 16th, NYI) II

[The Winter Soldier]

How often does that happen on a team looking to contend this year, though? Having a rookie 19-year old center as your 2C doesn't seem like a good idea if you have Stanley Cup aspirations this season.

When is the last time a contender had a rookie as their 2C? I honestly can't think of one. Deep teams, teams that are a threat to go deep in the playoffs, generally work their youngsters in slowly in the bottom six, or at best as complimentary players alongside already established stars (ie. Brandon Saad next to Kane or Toews, but not as the main guy on that line).

If Barzal does make the team, I'd be shocked if it's as 2C. Because as good as Barzal may project to be, the Isles will be in trouble if he's the best option they have at 2C as a 19 year old rookie.

Are the Isles truly a cup contending team or are they a retooling one? I don't see them as a cup contender next year. But only as a playoff contender with their current roster. They lost 2 key players in Okposo and Nielsen. For them to contend for a cup they need to integrate players like Barzal and some of their other good young players into the line up the next 1-3 years. From a Macro approach, you have to start looking at the Barzal's as the players that are going to make the biggest difference down the line.

 

[Felix Unger]

Are the Isles truly a cup contending team or are they a retooling one? I don't see them as a cup contender next year. But only as a playoff contender with their current roster. They lost 2 key players in Okposo and Nielsen. For them to contend for a cup they need to integrate players like Barzal and some of their other good young players into the line up the next 1-3 years. From a Macro approach, you have to start looking at the Barzal's as the players that are going to make the biggest difference down the line.

NYI aren't going to contend this year unless Ryan Strome takes a big step. It's really all about him. He's entering the prime of his career. He should center a very dangerous 2nd line with Brock Nelson and Anders Lee. If that succeeds, NYI will contend. If it doesn't, NYI will be a bubble team (D is pretty strong).

I think the situation is actually very good for Barzal. NYI can put him on a line with off-puck players like Prince and Kulemin and just let the boys skate.

I think this year in particular we have to wait till the deadline to see who contends/who doesn't. It should be a very active deadline with the ED, etc.

 

[Renbarg]

I don't think going back to junior is going to be too inspiring for Barzal. It is normal these days that draft + 1 players are in the NHL, one year of junior at this stage for a player of Barzal's ability? What is he going to learn. If he can handle sheltered mins to start the year. The team can stretch him into a bigger role. IE Fabbri or Larkin last season. IMO he would learn more at the NHL level, be more motivated to move his career fwd.

Isles have a hole at C with Nielsen gone via UFA. This is a perfect chance for the Isles to hold tryouts at C at camp. Given Strome, Nelson(he's more of a winger to me), Dal Colle(more a winger to me) Barzal is easily the best Center candidate to play behind JT.

The isles have a lot of natural centers in the 23. Tavares, cizikas, nelson, all got significant time there. Strome would play more center if he was left handed (they like to use him on rw, a position they are a little thin in). Then you got grabovski who is a wild card. Don't forget that quine is on the roster as well and is a natural center.

If barzal makes the team it'll be as a wing. My guess is he gets a 9 game tryout and then gets sent down barring injury or trade. He's probably not going to like it.

 

[Felix Unger]

If barzal makes the team it'll be as a wing. My guess is he gets a 9 game tryout and then gets sent down barring injury or trade. He's probably not going to like it.

Garth Snow admitted it was a mistake to play Strome at RW. Barzal, who is even less of a natural goal scorer than Strome, is not going to play wing. If he makes the team it will be as a center. Although, he'll probably play with someone who plays center to spell him on draws, where he's not that good.

 

[blinkman360]

I don't see why Barzal couldn't step in as one of the 2 or 3C's. The goal should be to build two secondary scoring lines anyway. I don't think the same forward line blue-print exists these days. The best teams are the teams with scoring depth. You could have Strome center one of those lines and give Barzal a shot at the other.

Don't see the issue with having him there, assuming he looks as good or better in TC than he did last year.

Aside from that, with the amount of high-end forwards they have coming through the system, I really don't think it would be a bad idea to try to implement one each season. Next season you'll have both Dal Colle and Ho-Sang coming off of a full year of pro hockey experience. You might be losing a guy like Nelson to expansion as well. After that, you could have both Beauvillier AND Bellows making the jump.

 

[LordNeverLose]

Everyone suggesting Barzal should be in the lineup, you do realize that means burning a year of his ELC and waiving Quine?

That's horrific asset management.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Everyone suggesting Barzal should be in the lineup, you do realize that means burning a year of his ELC and waiving Quine?

That's horrific asset management.

IMO the only way he makes it is if he is alot better than a roster player and Snow is forced to make a trade. I'd honestly bet everything I have that he will be back in Seattle.

 

[Felix Unger]

Everyone suggesting Barzal should be in the lineup, you do realize that means burning a year of his ELC and waiving Quine?

That's horrific asset management.

IMO the only way he makes it is if he is alot better than a roster player and Snow is forced to make a trade. I'd honestly bet everything I have that he will be back in Seattle.

These are two of the more annoying proscribed activities by armchair GM's. Only a traumatized Islander fan worries about losing Alan Quine to waivers. I mean, seriously. And "burning" the ELC is only a bad thing if the player isn't actually ready.

If Barzal shows he's ready, he makes the team. There's honestly no deeper analysis needed.

 

[Yashin for President]

I won't be happy if Barzal is sent back to Seattle. His skill set is too hard to ignore. He looked so comfortable in the games he played last season with us. So what if Quine or Prince get sent down, if Barzal is ready you do it. Last I checked Quine/Prince aren't exactly Mike Bossy. Take your bets, Barzal has a real chance to make this team.

 

[LordNeverLose]

These are two of the more annoying proscribed activities by armchair GM's. Only a traumatized Islander fan worries about losing Alan Quine to waivers. I mean, seriously. And "burning" the ELC is only a bad thing if the player isn't actually ready.

If Barzal shows he's ready, he makes the team. There's honestly no deeper analysis needed.

So if Barzal looks to be slightly batter than someone like Josh Bailey in camp, we should **** away Quine and lose a year of cost-controlled Barzal for what could maybe be a minor improvement at 3C.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Forgive my laziness but is Snow a 9 game tryout type guy? Or is he a believer of getting guys back to junior right away like some other GMs do?

I know some gms like to really take their time and utilize that time frame but others prefer getting them back to their junior team asap.. what has Snows past decisions looked like?

 

[Felix Unger]

So if Barzal looks to be slightly batter than someone like Josh Bailey in camp, we should **** away Quine and lose a year of cost-controlled Barzal for what could maybe be a minor improvement at 3C.

If Barzal is physically ready for the league, you put him in the league. This is the guy who has impressed the team with his approach, his intelligence, and his work habits. His skill is obviously there. They wanted him to get stronger. If he's strong enough while showing the same approach and work habits, you put him in the league.

These aren't contracts. These are people. If you tell them what you want them to do to make the team, they work tirelessly to achieve it, and *then* you keep them off the team because of Alan Quine? And, btw, it's training camp. People get hurt. And if they don't get hurt, sometimes they get "hurt". Barzal making the team doesn't mean any such thing. It may only "mean" that if Barzal makes the team and not one of 23 other guys get hurt. And what's the chances of that?

 

[Felix Unger]

I know some gms like to really take their time and utilize that time frame but others prefer getting them back to their junior team asap.. what has Snows past decisions looked like?

Barzal is the most impressive prospect NYI have had at a first post-draft training camp since JT. Strome wasn't close to ready at the first camp (he wasn't physically mature). Nino was a weird situation having to do with the cap floor, so you can throw that out too. Bailey arrived at a team with zero talent. This is a unique case in Snow's history.

If Barzal fights like he did last year, he's going to make the team that won't have Frans Nielsen and a healthy Grabovski. Frankly the idea that he wouldn't because of the ELC or Alan Quine is totally odd.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Barzal is the most impressive prospect NYI have had at a first post-draft training camp since JT. Strome wasn't close to ready at the first camp (he wasn't physically mature). Nino was a weird situation having to do with the cap floor, so you can throw that out too. Bailey arrived at a team with zero talent. This is a unique case in Snow's history.

If Barzal fights like he did last year, he's going to make the team that won't have Frans Nielsen and a healthy Grabovski. Frankly the idea that he wouldn't because of the ELC or Alan Quine is totally odd.

Oh I agree.. NYI won't care about ELC situatuon or Quine situatuon. .. all they will care about is if he earns a spot on the team. That's what camp is all about!!.. I love teams having competitive camps and young guys earning spots

 

[CodeE]

Agree with Felix... if Barzal is ready for NHL minutes, give him NHL minutes. Don't keep the training wheels on just because you have the option to send him back to Seattle.

Keeping him off the team to preserve an ELC year and protect Quine from waivers? Minor factors if Barzal can hit the ground running and potentially contend for the Calder.

 

[PWJunior]

Agree with Felix... if Barzal is ready for NHL minutes, give him NHL minutes. Don't keep the training wheels on just because you have the option to send him back to Seattle.

Keeping him off the team to preserve an ELC year and protect Quine from waivers? Minor factors if Barzal can hit the ground running and potentially contend for the Calder.

I look at Barzal and I could see him having a very similar season like Dylan Larkin did last year. Comes out like gangbusters in the 1st half and then falls off a cliff in the 2nd half. That's what happens to most teenagers trying to compete with the big boys for a whole season.

Barzal has the elite skating and high end skill to be in the NHL, but it's not just about being in the NHL... he needs to be successful in the NHL. With Capuano at the helm and him being just a kid, the odds are stacked against him.

 

[93LEAFS]

I look at Barzal and I could see him having a very similar season like Dylan Larkin did last year. Comes out like gangbusters in the 1st half and then falls off a cliff in the 2nd half. That's what happens to most teenagers trying to compete with the big boys for a whole season.

Barzal has the elite skating and high end skill to be in the NHL, but it's not just about being in the NHL... he needs to be successful in the NHL. With Capuano at the helm and him being just a kid, the odds are stacked against him.

Larkin's run was just flat out unsustainable (OISH%). It was more his numbers reverting to a realistic norm, than anything to do with a crash off of adrenaline. It also balances it out, its just kids who start off hot are likely to be kept up and allowed to play through the inevitable slump (see Jared McCann last year), whereas teenagers who struggle in the first 9 go back down. Eichel for example had a slow start, then really picked up in late December til March. Hanifin took a step forward later in the year. It truly varies, its just teenagers who start slow aren't often given the opportunity to play through the struggles, so it appears that they are more likely to fall off in the second half.

 

[seafoam]

I think Quine is still waiver exempt anyway. His one-way contract only means he gets paid his full salary whether in the NHL or AHL.

Nothing wrong with sending him to Bridgeport. If Barzal doesn't work out after nine games, send him back to Seattle and you can bring Quine back up.

NYI took advantage of Anders Lee's waiver exempt-ness and he put his head down and waited for his shot. It ended up working out for both sides.

 

[seafoam]

Forgive my laziness but is Snow a 9 game tryout type guy? Or is he a believer of getting guys back to junior right away like some other GMs do?

I know some gms like to really take their time and utilize that time frame but others prefer getting them back to their junior team asap.. what has Snows past decisions looked like?

No one has made the team to even get a shot at nine games since NYI wrongfully kept Bailey and Nino on for full seasons, so impossible to say.

 

[seafoam]

Even if you burn a year of Barzal's ELC this year, he still won't need a contract until the offseason AFTER Tavares would be hypothetically be re-upped AND 30+M in cap comes off the books.

NYI's salary structure was built to have money available for the next wave of guys like Barzal and Pulock by the time they are going to demand it.

 

[crasherino]

Everyone suggesting Barzal should be in the lineup, you do realize that means burning a year of his ELC and waiving Quine?

That's horrific asset management.

Its pretty likely that Grabo will start the year on IR. If that's the case, Barzal can get in the lineup with Prince/Quine as the 13/14th forwards and Mayfield as the #7 Dman and Pelech (who is waiver exempt) getting first pairing minutes in BP.

That IR stint can jive nicely with Barzal's 9 game try out. I think he gets that, at minimum.

 

[haulinbass]

Barzal is so underrated across the league. This guy is an amazing hockey player. He didn't exactly have a spot on the 1st line with the London Knights, or else he would have over 100 points and this guys hype would be right there with anyone. He carried Seattle in scoring.

There isn't to many guys who are currently outside of the NHL who I would put over this kid. 2015 draft he at worst slots behind Marner and Rantanen for the 5th spot.

 

[93LEAFS]

Barzal is so underrated across the league. This guy is an amazing hockey player. He didn't exactly have a spot on the 1st line with the London Knights, or else he would have over 100 points and this guys hype would be right there with anyone. He carried Seattle in scoring.

There isn't to many guys who are currently outside of the NHL who I would put over this kid. 2015 draft he at worst slots behind Marner and Rantanen for the 5th spot.

Strome, Connor, Provorov and Werenski all have strong cases to go above him. Saying 5th at worst I'd say is a bit bold.

Edit: Forgot about Hanifin, thinking he would be automatically above Barzal, don't know how you could have Barzal ahead of him.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Barzal is so underrated across the league. This guy is an amazing hockey player. He didn't exactly have a spot on the 1st line with the London Knights, or else he would have over 100 points and this guys hype would be right there with anyone. He carried Seattle in scoring.

There isn't to many guys who are currently outside of the NHL who I would put over this kid. 2015 draft he at worst slots behind Marner and Rantanen for the 5th spot.

I'm a huge Barzal fan, but how does Hanifin fall after the season he had?

 

[haulinbass]

My bad on Hanifen, wasn't really thinking in terms of D. Does 6th change my point that drastically though?

Strome has more question marks to me than Barzal. Skating is pretty important in the NHL now days. If he is going to become a legit 1C in the NHL with his skating, then his game better be out of this world. If hes becomes a solid 2C in the NHL, well I think Barzal is a lock to become a legit 2C as well.

Connor is impressive and I am a big fan. But I think Barzal is the better player. Barzal's IQ and play-making ability is off the charts. Plus the center factor never hurts. Connor is going to have a lot of competition in Winnipegs top six. Islanders are drooling to mold Barzal into that 2C slot behind Tavares.

Marner I think could easily become of the best offensive players in this draft. But what is his body weight at right now? He has a long way to go to prove he can play at the level he does in the NHL with that size. He truly has the skill to become the next Kane/Gaudreau player, but that is not going to be easy for him to accomplish. If he can't I don't for see him exactly being a defensive catalyst. If he doesn't reach his ceiling, Barzal playing C could easily be the more valuable commodity between the two.

The only player I can't argue about is Rantanen. Kind of hard to make a case against the stats he put up in the AHL also considering that was his first year playing in NA.

I just don't see Barzals game not translating into the NHL.