C Jack Hughes - USNTDP (2019 Draft) Part 4

[KinCornKarn]

You ruined it by calling him generational

The language filters should block the word generati0nal from these boards.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I think Aho has a higher hockey IQ. Hughes is good in this category, but his hockey IQ is not as high level as his skill. And because I'm sure someone will take exception because someone always does in reference to Hughes, that doesn't mean he won't be very good. There are a lot of very good NHL'ers, like Eichel, Kane, Hall, Malkin, MacKinnon, Stamkos, Ovechkin whose hockey skill is higher than their hockey IQ. There are only so many Aho's, McDavid's, Barkov's, Kucherov's, Matthews whose hockey IQ is as good as their skill.

When youre listing top-5 players in Kane MacKinnon Ovechkin Malkin and saying their IQ is lower than their skill - your credibility goes out the window

Yeah yeah, Aho has higher IQ than Kane and Ovechkin. Lmfao

 

[ijuka]

When youre listing top-5 players in Kane MacKinnon Ovechkin Malkin and saying their IQ is lower than their skill - your credibility goes out the window

Yeah yeah, Aho has higher IQ than Kane and Ovechkin. Lmfao

How can you say he doesn't? Especially with Ovechkin. Consider what makes Aho effective. His skill and other attributes certainly are nothing crazy.

The relationship between how good a player is and their hockey IQ isn't linear.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

How can you say he doesn't? Especially with Ovechkin. Consider what makes Aho effective. His skill and other attributes certainly are nothing crazy.

The relationship between how good a player is and their hockey IQ isn't linear.

No top-5 player lacks IQ. This isnt hard to understand. No player can become a top-5 NHL talent without high IQ, just because they dont set up everyone else 24/7 doesnt mean they arent high IQ.

Quit using Aho’s lack of other abolities as reasons to take down other players for ‘lower IQs’

 

[ijuka]

No top-5 player lacks IQ. This isnt hard to understand.

A player doesn't have to "lack IQ" to have less IQ than Sebastian Aho.

If we forget hockey IQ for a moment and just talk regular IQ, 150 IQ is more than 130 IQ but 130 IQ still is very high.

Hockey IQ isn't some boolean switch, there are different levels.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

A player doesn't have to "lack IQ" to have less IQ than Sebastian Aho.

If we forget hockey IQ for a moment and just talk regular IQ, 150 IQ is more than 130 IQ but 130 IQ still is very high.

Playmaking does not automatically mean higher IQ

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

how are you gauging hockey IQ? is it based on the understanding of an all around game? experience? room to improve?
like you said with Hall, if I base his hockey IQ on the understanding of an all around game... uh oh... but an offensive game... extremely high...
I'm not worried about Hall's 2 way game, just let him do his thing... Devils paired him with a strong 2 way center... Hall has his best season, wins the Hart.. and we make the playoffs...
Do the same thing with Jack... pair him with someone that benefits his game and he'll probably have an impact on our team next season

(hopefully because we need it..)

I think its a combination of all areas of the game. Hughes sees the ice very well and anticipates where his teammates will go in the offensive zone when he has the puck, but there's more to hockey IQ than being able to see passes that other players can't and knowing where a teammate will be for a tap in. I think Hughes has trouble with knowing when to make a simple play and when to make a more difficult play. His awareness in the defensive zone can sometimes be a problem, and he doesn't forecheck all too well. Forechecking isn't only about being big and strong. A lot of players do it with anticipation. So its a combination of play with the puck and play without the puck. He's very good at some components that go into hockey IQ, and he's below-average at some other components.

What I don't understand is that every top prospect gets a label of having a great hockey IQ. We see it every year. Every top prospect has an elite hockey IQ according to the media and some fans. Hughes has elite offensive ability, so having another component of his game as comparable to his offensive skill is going to be hard. Looking at his hockey IQ in the negative doesn't make sense. Its certainly good, and not a problem from what I've seen, but I think putting it in the same category as the offensive component does the offensive component of his game a disservice and isn't an accurate representation of his hockey IQ.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

When youre listing top-5 players in Kane MacKinnon Ovechkin Malkin and saying their IQ is lower than their skill - your credibility goes out the window

Yeah yeah, Aho has higher IQ than Kane and Ovechkin. Lmfao

I agree. Hughes has an elite shot, an elite hockey IQ, elite size, elite speed, elite skill, elite defense elite intangibles. Why not call him Wayne Gretzky 2.0? He's as good of a prospect as there has ever been. When someone looks in the dictionary for a definition of generational, all thats listed is Jack Hughes.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

A player doesn't have to "lack IQ" to have less IQ than Sebastian Aho.

If we forget hockey IQ for a moment and just talk regular IQ, 150 IQ is more than 130 IQ but 130 IQ still is very high.

Hockey IQ isn't some boolean switch, there are different levels.

As I'm sure you noticed, the poster you responded to is trying to conflate having a worse hockey IQ than Aho with lacking hockey IQ. He couldn't come up with an argument against what was being stated, so he conflated two categories that are very different.

You have to wonder how much these people have even watched of Hughes, but they are experts of Hughes since the draft lottery, and only their opinions are acceptable opinions, despite a large number of them having no basis to form an opinion.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I agree. Hughes has an elite shot, an elite hockey IQ, elite size, elite speed, elite skill, elite defense elite intangibles. Why not call him Wayne Gretzky 2.0? He's as good of a prospect as there has ever been. When someone looks in the dictionary for a definition of generational, all thats listed is Jack Hughes.

Explain to me how Aho is smarter than Kane and Eichel. Forget the rest

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

So the argument is Malkin Ovechkin and MacKinnon are freaks and have lower IQ but are bigger specimens

So how exactly is Jack 5’10” 162lbs 2PPG Hughes not higher IQ than Aho? How is 5’10” Kane not smarter? Marner? Gaudreau?

 

[ijuka]

So the argument is Malkin Ovechkin and MacKinnon are freaks and have lower IQ but are bigger specimens

So how exactly is Jack 5’10” 162lbs 2PPG Hughes not higher IQ than Aho? How is 5’10” Kane not smarter? Marner? Gaudreau?

Hockey IQ has absolutely nothing to do with size. There are two main components, first is decision-making with the puck and the second is decision-making without the puck. We could say that hockey IQ is the "what" and skill is the "how".

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

A player doesn't have to "lack IQ" to have less IQ than Sebastian Aho.

If we forget hockey IQ for a moment and just talk regular IQ, 150 IQ is more than 130 IQ but 130 IQ still is very high.

Hockey IQ isn't some boolean switch, there are different levels.

How can it be true that Hughes is built like a 12 year old with polio AND doesn’t have a great hockey IQ yet he’s shattering scoring records left and right?

 

[Albatros]

How can it be true that Hughes is built like a 12 year old with polio AND doesn’t have a great hockey IQ yet he’s shattering scoring records left and right?

Because he plays with other kids? Like I pointed out earlier, no first overall has moved from the USHL directly to the NHL before. Brian Lawton made it from high school in 1983.

 

[93LEAFS]

Because he plays with other kids? Like I pointed out earlier, no first overall has moved from the USHL directly to the NHL before. Brian Lawton made it from high school in 1983.

No player has done it more due to weird circumstances than it being on the USHL (and you lose college eligibility). Matthews, Kessel, Eichel and Jones probably would have, and there's a good chance Kane would have, it's just they were all late-birthdays.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Because he plays with other kids? Like I pointed out earlier, no first overall has moved from the USHL directly to the NHL before. Brian Lawton made it from high school in 1983.

But this is completely untrue and easily disproven. He destroyed NCAA 23-24 year olds this season. Stop the fake news.

 

[Albatros]

But this is completely untrue and easily disproven. He destroyed NCAA 23-24 year olds this season. Stop the fake news.

Exhibition games against random NCAA lineups are hardly of any interest.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

But this is completely untrue and easily disproven. He destroyed NCAA 23-24 year olds this season. Stop the fake news.

23-24? There are maybe 1 or 2 of those on a team. And they usually aren't some of the better players if they are still playing in the NCAA at that age. Most players are 18-22.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Exhibition games against random NCAA lineups are hardly of any interest.

“This evidence that doesn’t neatly fit my narrative is hardly of any interest.”

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

23-24? There are maybe 1 or 2 of those on a team. And they usually aren't some of the better players if they are still playing in the NCAA at that age. Most players are 18-22.

The difference between a 17 year old and a 20+ year old is very significant.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

The difference between a 17 year old and a 20+ year old is very significant.

Sure. But lets not call out people for saying "fake news" when you trying to imply his competition is 23-24 year olds when it's overwhelmingly not.

 

[gwh]

If Sebastian Aho can transition into a center, I have no doubt that Hughes can. Both are undersized, but both have very high hockey IQ and tremendous puck skills.

Aho was a junior center that was off position in the NHL. Remember the Line with Pulju-Aho-Laine?

Just putting it out there.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Sure. But lets not call out people for saying "fake news" when you trying to imply his competition is 23-24 year olds when it's overwhelmingly not.

He played against 23-24 year olds - fact. Saying he only played against kids - not a fact. (mod)

 

[ijuka]

He played against 23-24 year olds - fact. Saying he only played against kids - not a fact. You are fake news.

Not even a quarter of his games, right?

And that's quite misleading, because there'll be a couple of 23+ yo players at best. And the ones who are in NCAA at that age tend to not exactly be amazing.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

How can it be true that Hughes is built like a 12 year old with polio AND doesn’t have a great hockey IQ yet he’s shattering scoring records left and right?

I don’t understand why he would need to have a great hockey IQ. What if the player with the best hockey IQ in the NHL wasn’t that talented offensively? There’s this thing called offensive skill that Hughes has in abundance. Do the top 20 players in the NHL all have a great hockey IQ?

He also has a birthday advantage over Matthews and Eichel, the two best players recently from the NTDP. Like all players on the 18’s, his stats are inflated due to playing on the best NTDP team ever.