C Frederik Gauthier (2013, 21st, TOR)

[BondraTime]

He's a 1st round pick playing in the Q = If he was only at 1 PPG, it should be considered struggling....

Playing in the Q has nothing to do with it. Most guys taken in the first round from any league would put up the same numbers give or take in the other leagues.

 

[FreeBird]

Biggs had a good rookie year in the OHL last year. Not disappointed in him at all. Needs a year or 2 in the AHL. Only 20.

Percy looked fanstastic this preaseason, like what I saw. Leivo who I have long said may turn out to be the best player drafted by the Leafs in 2011, is looking every bit a NHL in the near future.

1st rd pick that can't get a point in the playoffs as a 20 year old, raises a lot of Red Flags. He was demoted quickly from the main camp isn't that in itself a message being sent. Guy's like Boll, Devane still there.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Some guy named Charles Sauralt had 108 in 68 in the OHL.

Brendan Shinnimin had 134 points in the WHL in 69 games. Whats your point?

Every single year there are 20 year olds who tear up the three junior leagues. Both the OHL and WHL have been the higher scoring leagues over the past 5 years.

Gauthier wasn't drafted to produce points. Any Leafs fans who expect that are in for a let down. He will still be a top player in the league either way.

Gaulthier was drafted with hopes he could develop into a top 2 way top #6 Center.

We know he is a safe bet to be a good bottom 6 Center one day, but I doubt this is what the Leafs fans or scouts want from a 1st rd pick at 21 in one of the reported deepest drafts since 2003.

Are you saying you have no hopes Gaulthier will develop more of a scoring touch this year, if you followed the run up to the draft, it wasn't his defence that was a question mark, it was can he score at the NHL level?

Stands to reason if he cannot score more than a PPG at the Q level, what chance does he have in the NHL? He was close to a PPG average last season, just under, he needs to drastically improve his scoring or he will be a bottom 6 center one day.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Playing in the Q has nothing to do with it. Most guys taken in the first round from any league would put up the same numbers give or take in the other leagues.

Sean Couturier has put up back to back 96 point seasons in the Q in only 58 and 68 games.

He may be a top 6C one day, but is not close at the moment.

He's a good comparable for Gauthier, that tells you just how much Frederik needs to improve.

 

[Haatley]

Gaulthier was drafted with hopes he could develop into a top 2 way top #6 Center.

We know he is a safe bet to be a good bottom 6 Center one day, but I doubt this is what the Leafs fans or scouts want from a 1st rd pick at 21 in one of the reported deepest drafts since 2003.

Are you saying you have no hopes Gaulthier will develop more of a scoring touch this year, if you followed the run up to the draft, it wasn't his defence that was a question mark, it was can he score at the NHL level?

Stands to reason if he cannot score more than a PPG at the Q level, what chance does he have in the NHL? He was close to a PPG average last season, just under, he needs to drastically improve his scoring or he will be a bottom 6 center one day.

Uhh the leafs scouting department said that it's unfair to think he will develop into anything but a third line centre. Dont know where you get top 6 from.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

Gaulthier was drafted with hopes he could develop into a top 2 way top #6 Center.

We know he is a safe bet to be a good bottom 6 Center one day, but I doubt this is what the Leafs fans or scouts want from a 1st rd pick at 21 in one of the reported deepest drafts since 2003.

Are you saying you have no hopes Gaulthier will develop more of a scoring touch this year, if you followed the run up to the draft, it wasn't his defence that was a question mark, it was can he score at the NHL level?

Stands to reason if he cannot score more than a PPG at the Q level, what chance does he have in the NHL? He was close to a PPG average last season, just under, he needs to drastically improve his scoring or he will be a bottom 6 center one day.

Maybe it's time Leafs fans recalibrated their expectations for the draft. Even in a deep draft, if you're drating out of the top-20, getting a 3rd line center is a really good outcome.

I suggest you look up the players picked at 21 for the past 10 years. For the forwards: Wolski, Riley Nash, Anton Gustaffson, Riley Sheahan, Stefan Noesen, Mark Jankowski. Don't know where you got the idea that top 6 two-way centers were easy to find in that range.

Sean Couturier has put up back to back 96 point seasons in the Q in only 58 and 68 games.

He may be a top 6C one day, but is not close at the moment.

He's a good comparable for Gauthier, that tells you just how much Frederik needs to improve.

Needs to improve for what? To make the NHL, or to fulfill the absurdly over-inflated expectations of Leafs fans?

And Couturier's progression to the NHL has been pretty fast, for a guy this size who still hasn't filled out. He's the best defensive forward on his team, and he's still only 20 (no idea why people think he's plateaued). It's not an indictment of Gauthier that his progress isn't as rapid.

 

[Sartorial]

He's a 1st round pick playing in the Q = If he was only at 1 PPG, it should be considered struggling....

No. It shouldn't. We really ought to learn not to judge a player's performance based on goals and assists.
The amateur scouts who work for NHL teams don't and neither should we.

 

[Sartorial]

Uhh the leafs scouting department said that it's unfair to think he will develop into anything but a third line centre. Dont know where you get top 6 from.

The same idea got planted in my head here.

http://www.puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1578

Living in the West I don't get to see some of these players often (though I have watched Gauthier twice), so I rely on sources such as this to to contribute to my opinion of a player.

What about Gauthier's game, in your estimation, will prevent him from being a second line center?

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Gauthier was one of three players I wanted the Leafs to take at 21, Curtis Lazar and Adam Erne being the others. Lazar obviously went before us, but I had Erne slightly ahead of Gauthier as well. I'm willing to be patient with Freddy, but I can't say I was overly impressed with him in either the prospects camp, rookie camp, or main camp. He was solid defensively, but didn't do much of anything with the puck on offense.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Kid went pointless again today.

5GP 2 assists. -2 on the season. 44.1% face-off percentage.

I don't think my eyes fooled me when I indeed thought our 2nd pick Carter Verhaege looked better than Frederik at camp.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

You are going to get tired re-evaluating him after every couple of games.

 

[Leafidelity]

You are going to get tired re-evaluating him after every couple of games.

I hope so

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You are going to get tired re-evaluating him after every couple of games.

When he starts playing like a first rd pick, there will be no need to. But to post positive things about Gauthier.

I don't think it's front page news, but some of us like to keep track of our team's prospects. When one gets off to a dreadful start, being Toronto-centric most want to know.

It's not likely to keep up but for those expecting Freddy to make a leap in points this season and possibly a top 6 center in the NHL, he is not making that leap THUS far after being drafted rather highly and over some very good prospects.

 

[Sartorial]

When he starts playing like a first rd pick, there will be no need to. But to post positive things about Gauthier.

I don't think it's front page news, but some of us like to keep track of our team's prospects. When one gets off to a dreadful start, being Toronto-centric most want to know.

It's not likely to keep up but for those expecting Freddy to make a leap in points this season and possibly a top 6 center in the NHL, he is not making that leap THUS far after being drafted rather highly and over some very good prospects.

What about his play this year is making him struggle?

I'm always happy to hear how prospects are doing, so your input's appreciated.

 

[snizzbone*]

When he starts playing like a first rd pick, there will be no need to. But to post positive things about Gauthier.

I don't think it's front page news, but some of us like to keep track of our team's prospects. When one gets off to a dreadful start, being Toronto-centric most want to know.

It's not likely to keep up but for those expecting Freddy to make a leap in points this season and possibly a top 6 center in the NHL, he is not making that leap THUS far after being drafted rather highly and over some very good prospects.

Even if he struggles offensively.. he will still be a great player on the team. The offensive side of his game was something that could happen, but even if it doesn't, hes still a good player.

 

[member 147413]

What about his play this year is making him struggle?

I'm always happy to hear how prospects are doing, so your input's appreciated.

He just watches stats. I do think its fair to say he's struggling along with Rimouski, who were supposed to be a top Q team this year.

Any Océanic fans have some input?

 

[7even]

He just watches stats. I do think its fair to say he's struggling along with Rimouski, who were supposed to be a top Q team this year.

Any Océanic fans have some input?

QMJHLFollower actually watched his last game and posted on our board that he had played very well and had a beauty of a play for the assist on the GWG.

The Ocèanic should be a very good team this year, but the whole team is off to a pretty slow start. Maybe give them 20 games first.

 

[BIitz]

Watched a couple games myself. Definitely left wanting more.

Offense looked lack luster and outside of being able to read and react well defensively, he isn't always pro active.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

When he starts playing like a first rd pick, there will be no need to. But to post positive things about Gauthier.

I don't think it's front page news, but some of us like to keep track of our team's prospects. When one gets off to a dreadful start, being Toronto-centric most want to know.

It's not likely to keep up but for those expecting Freddy to make a leap in points this season and possibly a top 6 center in the NHL, he is not making that leap THUS far after being drafted rather highly and over some very good prospects.

I follow my teams prospects (I am a Leaf fan) and a lot of OHL prospects. I am just able to look at things through a lens that views things beyond just stats. If you know what a player's strength's are, you can figure out how important just stats are. Some guys are drafted as purely skill guys who must produce, others are projects who have specific attributes (size, intangibles, defense ability or other non-offensive positive abilities) that mean they can grow in their development as a player without blowing the doors off offensively. Maybe his lack of offense (if it persists the rest of the year) indicates that he can only be a 3rd liner, but despite the whining of many on HF boards, a quality 3rd liner with great size is a really solid pick in the latter 1/3rd of the round.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

What about his play this year is making him struggle?

I'm always happy to hear how prospects are doing, so your input's appreciated.

I commented on his stats, but did watch him in the preseason games. He left me with the impression he is solid defensively, tries relatively hard, is busy enough. But somewhat lacking offensively.

I thought he did not make as good an impression as Verhaege our 2nd pick roughly 60 picks later. Wouldn't surprise me this kid is better.

You will have Leafs fans coming in and defending him, and grant you I know it is 5 games in to the Q, but don't let them fool you, most expect much improved offensive production.

Thus far Gauthier has left me underwhelmed from watching him this training camp. Hope he improves his offence and face-offs. Defensively he is fine. Time is still on his side though.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I follow my teams prospects (I am a Leaf fan) and a lot of OHL prospects. I am just able to look at things through a lens that views things beyond just stats. If you know what a player's strength's are, you can figure out how important just stats are. Some guys are drafted as purely skill guys who must produce, others are projects who have specific attributes (size, intangibles, defense ability or other non-offensive positive abilities) that mean they can grow in their development as a player without blowing the doors off offensively. Maybe his lack of offense (if it persists the rest of the year) indicates that he can only be a 3rd liner, but despite the whining of many on HF boards, a quality 3rd liner with great size is a really solid pick in the latter 1/3rd of the round.

If Gauthier tops off as a #3C, I will be throughly disappointed we drafted so conservatively. I am the biggest Dave Morrison booster on the Leafs board, think he has an outstanding philosophy in picking players. Which we are now starting to see bear fruit.

Josh Leivo is just a great pick, who I have often commented on as possibly the best player we took in 2011, just in time when some posters claimed Morrison never picks up late gems. Then there was the critique of no elite players. Now Kadri and Rielly have all the talent to be elite players.

This pick however, puzzled me, if Gauthier tops off as a #3C, we should have traded down and maxed out our picks. Verhaege and Herzog were great picks. Love these 2 kids, just wish we swung for the fences at 21. Or move down for more picks.

 

[Lundface*]

If Gauthier tops off as a #3C, I will be throughly disappointed we drafted so conservatively. I am the biggest Dave Morrison booster on the Leafs board, think he has an outstanding philosophy in picking players. Which we are now starting to see bear fruit.

Josh Leivo is just a great pick, who I have often commented on as possibly the best player we took in 2011, just in time when some posters claimed Morrison never picks up late gems. Then there was the critique of no elite players. Now Kadri and Rielly have all the talent to be elite players.

This pick however, puzzled me, if Gauthier tops off as a #3C, we should have traded down and maxed out our picks. Verhaege and Herzog were great picks. Love these 2 kids, just wish we swung for the fences at 21. Or move down for more picks.

That pick was vintage Nonis....get used to it

 

[The Winter Soldier]

That pick was vintage Nonis....get used to it

Hopefully Nonis listens to Morrison as Burke did. I am curious at the thought process behind this one, I guess Behind the Draft will yield answers to who called the shots.

Wasn't a Morrison type pick, I don't disagree with you, but we will see.

Our 2nd and 3rd picks had Morrison's prints all over them though. Especially Verhaege who has gotten off to a great start with Niagara.

 

[Sartorial]

I commented on his stats, but did watch him in the preseason games. He left me with the impression he is solid defensively, tries relatively hard, is busy enough. But somewhat lacking offensively.

I thought he did not make as good an impression as Verhaege our 2nd pick roughly 60 picks later. Wouldn't surprise me this kid is better.

You will have Leafs fans coming in and defending him, and grant you I know it is 5 games in to the Q, but don't let them fool you, most expect much improved offensive production.

Thus far Gauthier has left me underwhelmed from watching him this training camp. Hope he improves his offence and face-offs. Defensively he is fine. Time is still on his side though.

Thanks for you input!

I encourage you not to worry about his stats. Scouts aren't really concerned with stat lines, but rather the context of the stats. For example, It could be that his coach often puts him out there for defensive zone starts because of his sound play apart from the puck. Already we can see how he may end up playing many of his shifts and minutes in the defensive or neutral zone, where it's hard to score from. For me, this provides context so I don't have to concern myself with whether he's putting up gaudy offensive totals. Rather, I'd be encouraged because my team potentially has one of the premier defensive center prospects.

Ryan O'Reilly is a great example of a guy who made the NHL without ever putting up big numbers in junior (in fact, under a point per game). Of course, he's one of the leagues best defensive forwards, whose offence has also developed nicely.

Besides, it's only 5 games. His whole team could be a bit off, or it could just be bad puck-luck.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Context of stats don't matter, and plain goals, assists and points are all that matter. That's why former 111 point getter Luca Caputi turned into a scoring star on the Leafs after we traded Ponikarovsky for him...oh wait.