C Frederik Gauthier (2013, 21st, TOR)

[Captain Clutch]

Not sure where you're coming up with this. Hanzel was much better offensively and denfensively at the same age, and has gotten much better in both respects as a pro the last few years.

Saying that, I've said in this thread, Gauthier is what he is. A big potential third line center. Many/most first round picks can be gauged to some degree by looking at a stat-sheet, but not him. Gauthier wasn't chosen for his numbers and offense.

Uh, not really. Gauthier had one productive season (points wise) as a 19 year old junior when he put up 85 points vs Gauthier's 60 as a 17 year old. Otherwise Hanzal is a career 30 pt/year player in the NHL and plays 1st line center because he's 6'5 230 and wins a ton of face-offs and hits people but to say he's a "much" better offensively & defensively just doesn't hold water. I'm not a huge Gauthier fan either but he could end up being a very effective NHL player, much like Hanzal and I think he is more skilled than Hanzal, offensively (notwithstanding this season's results)

 

[The Iron Goalie]

Uh, not really. Gauthier had one productive season (points wise) as a 19 year old junior when he put up 85 points vs Gauthier's 60 as a 17 year old. Otherwise Hanzal is a career 30 pt/year player in the NHL and plays 1st line center because he's 6'5 230 and wins a ton of face-offs and hits people but to say he's a "much" better offensively & defensively just doesn't hold water. I'm not a huge Gauthier fan either but he could end up being a very effective NHL player, much like Hanzal and I think he is more skilled than Hanzal, offensively (notwithstanding this season's results)

I like the Hanzel comparison defensively, offensively however Gauthier has a good shot, and pass, but lacks any pucks skills what so ever...ie puckcontrol, deking etc. At the junior level thats fine, but at the NHL level I think he tops out as a good 3rd C in the Hanzel mold

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Pretty brutal pick by the Leafs. They don't seem to use their 1st rounders very wisely....

Let's pretend he is a bust already, pretty brutal comment. They didn't use this one wisely and the one on Biggs may not have been wise on HF = they don't use any first rounders wisely.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Martin Hanzal is his upside.

Brian Boyle he should at least become.

David Steckel if he underachieves.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I don't think his skating is the problem. The problem is he plays like he's 1 foot shorter and 100lbs lighter than he actually is.

A big man that plays small. Always a bad thing.

Just made me think of Benoit Pouliot. 4th overall baby.

 

[BondraTime]

Uh, not really. Gauthier had one productive season (points wise) as a 19 year old junior when he put up 85 points vs Gauthier's 60 as a 17 year old. Otherwise Hanzal is a career 30 pt/year player in the NHL and plays 1st line center because he's 6'5 230 and wins a ton of face-offs and hits people but to say he's a "much" better offensively & defensively just doesn't hold water. I'm not a huge Gauthier fan either but he could end up being a very effective NHL player, much like Hanzal and I think he is more skilled than Hanzal, offensively (notwithstanding this season's results)

18 year old Hanzal - 60 GP 26 G 59 A 85 P

18 year old Gauthier - 29 GP 7 G 17 A 24 P

Have you ever watched Gauthier live? He does not have very good puck skills. At all. He is a big, defensively responsible, Jay McClement type.

Hanzal is this generations Bobby Holik lite, if you can afford to use him as your 3rd line C, you will win the Cup. If he is your 1st line C, you are in trouble.

 

[newfy]

The one thing I fonud odd is that for this guy being touted as a shut down center he never was used to shut anyone down. He wasnt even used on the PK. Makes you wonder how good his defense is vs how its being touted

 

[EscapeGoat]

I didn't like him before the draft, his down year this year is only confirming my initial feelings about him.

I like the Colbourne comparison.

Pretty bad comparison considering Gauthier is projected to be light years ahead of Colbourne at the NHL level in terms of defence.

 

[Nash]

Gauthier and Biggs will both be pros and Toronto fans will see them do very well in third line roles. It will be for the Marlies unfortunately.

 

[7even]

Gauthier and Biggs will both be pros and Toronto fans will see them do very well in third line roles. It will be for the Marlies unfortunately.

Lirl.

Wasn't on board with Gauthier before the draft (wanted Morrissey, Rychel, or Mantha), was and am indifferent to the pick now. But I would like to propose a question to all of you opportunistic sht-takers: how do you draft a two-way top 6 centre, a Krejci, a Bergeron, a Couture, especially outside the top 15, without drafting someone with his knocks and hoping he develops into one? Magic? There are no perfect prospects in the 20s, everyone has warts. Sometimes they break that mold and you've got Claude Guroux. Sometimes not.

Never liked the Biggs pick. Showed no offensive talent prior to his draft or afterwards. Gauthier was at least a PPG his draft year.

 

[drw02]

Let's pretend he is a bust already, pretty brutal comment. They didn't use this one wisely and the one on Biggs may not have been wise on HF = they don't use any first rounders wisely.

You're right... Leafs management does an excellent job of scouting and drafting. One of their strong suits, no doubt. Just look at all that talent they've developed...

Their track record and Gauthier's underwhelming play certainly tilts the meter towards him not being what they thought he would be. I'm assuming they projected him as a top 6 center when they drafted him, because why else would they have taken him in the 1st round? Or maybe they think drafting a bottom 6 center in the 1st is using their 1st round pick wisely?

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Pretty bad comparison considering Gauthier is projected to be light years ahead of Colbourne at the NHL level in terms of defence.

Your right, Colbourne had better hands & was better offensively.

 

[Leafidelity]

Your right, Colbourne had better hands & was better offensively.

Now if you can just push him out towards the play before its back in the other end, he'll be set.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

You're right... Leafs management does an excellent job of scouting and drafting. One of their strong suits, no doubt. Just look at all that talent they've developed...

Their track record and Gauthier's underwhelming play certainly tilts the meter towards him not being what they thought he would be. I'm assuming they projected him as a top 6 center when they drafted him, because why else would they have taken him in the 1st round? Or maybe they think drafting a bottom 6 center in the 1st is using their 1st round pick wisely?

Lol saying I don't think they use all of their 1st rounders poorly based on this one pick in the bottom third of the round, is the exact same as saying I think they have done an excellent job. Ok then.

They may have projected him as a top 6, and if so still probably do given that it's only been half a season. It's a pretty big crap shoot expecting a top 6 forward out of a pick later in the first round. If you expect a top 6er out of every first rounder, you are going to be disappointed frequently. He's not performing as well offensively as you would like to see, but it's kind of funny judging the pick not even a full season after his draft, most of whom haven't seen him outside of the World Juniors(where he didn't play a lot). The way people are talking, he's finished with hockey after this season if he doesn't put up big numbers in the second half.

 

[EscapeGoat]

Your right, Colbourne had better hands & was better offensively.

Which brings us back to your original comment. Bet you wish you had a time machine so that you didn't look ignorant.

 

[SchultzSquared*]

But I would like to propose a question to all of you opportunistic sht-takers: how do you draft a two-way top 6 centre, a Krejci, a Bergeron, a Couture, especially outside the top 15, without drafting someone with his knocks and hoping he develops into one? Magic? There are no perfect prospects in the 20s, everyone has warts. Sometimes they break that mold and you've got Claude Guroux. Sometimes not.

No one can tell you exact formula... not even Hakan Andersson... but there is one sure fire way to NOT draft one: take big Coke machines who do not have NHL level vision or puck skills... Petan fits the 'Giroux' mold... Shinkaruk fits the 'Giroux' mold... Gauthier does not

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Lirl.

Wasn't on board with Gauthier before the draft (wanted Morrissey, Rychel, or Mantha), was and am indifferent to the pick now. But I would like to propose a question to all of you opportunistic sht-takers: how do you draft a two-way top 6 centre, a Krejci, a Bergeron, a Couture, especially outside the top 15, without drafting someone with his knocks and hoping he develops into one? Magic? There are no perfect prospects in the 20s, everyone has warts. Sometimes they break that mold and you've got Claude Guroux. Sometimes not.

Never liked the Biggs pick. Showed no offensive talent prior to his draft or afterwards. Gauthier was at least a PPG his draft year.

I don't think anyone ever accused Giroux or Bergeron for playing smaller than they "are" (Bergeron in particular is hardly a small player). Gauthier looks a bit too relaxed for the type of player he is projected to be at this stage. His smarts are definitely a strength, although he is not a creative player, which is fine. I do find his lack of puck skills a bit alarming.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

If we are basing picks off of there post draft, Shinkaruk is injury prone and too small/fragile too ever make an impact in the NHL. But I guess we should wait until next year and he gets to play again before judging him. Saw some Canuck fans spin his injury into a positive about how he can use the down time to add muscle and get stronger, even though it's going to take a while just to regain the strength he had prior to the injury. Never seen that type of argument proposed for a player and accepted by anyone before.

 

[Ryp37]

If we are basing picks off of there post draft, Shinkaruk is injury prone and too small/fragile too ever make an impact in the NHL. But I guess we should wait until next year and he gets to play again before judging him. Saw some Canuck fans spin his injury into a positive about how he can use the down time to add muscle and get stronger, even though it's going to take a while just to regain the strength he had prior to the injury. Never seen that type of argument proposed for a player and accepted by anyone before.

An 18 year old athlete who has 7 months to re-cover and get stronger? Should be fine, not sure what he has to do with this thread

People are harping on Gauthier because he's a first round pick that's a third line center on a QMJHL team, he's a project but there's definitely reasons to be concerned

 

[Coaches Coroner]

An 18 year old athlete who has 7 months to re-cover and get stronger? Should be fine, not sure what he has to do with this thread

People are harping on Gauthier because he's a first round pick that's a third line center on a QMJHL team, he's a project but there's definitely reasons to be concerned

Was responding to a post above me, didn't quote it and then someone posted while I was typing. I think Shinkaruk will return to form, but some were suggesting being injured was more of a positive than a negative because his biggest weakeness is strength and he would be able to improve his overall strength in rehab. I have no doubt he will regain his strength, but I don't think he is going to regain his full strength AND significantly improve it.

First I have heard of Gauthier being a 3rd liner only in the Q. If he's getting third line minutes, then his production is actually pretty good.

 

[BiggestLeafsFanEVER*]

His performance at World Juniors left me underwhelmed.

 

[Ryp37]

Was responding to a post above me, didn't quote it and then someone posted while I was typing. I think Shinkaruk will return to form, but some were suggesting being injured was more of a positive than a negative because his biggest weakeness is strength and he would be able to improve his overall strength in rehab. I have no doubt he will regain his strength, but I don't think he is going to regain his full strength AND significantly improve it.

First I have heard of Gauthier being a 3rd liner only in the Q. If he's getting third line minutes, then his production is actually pretty good.

Ah gotcha didn't see that.

I saw it on the Leafs board actually, his team traded for a center recently and he got bumped down

 

[Leafidelity]

This might be the first time I can ever say the main boards has more interest in one of our prospects then Leafs fans do. They weren't exactly rolling out the red carpet and tossing doves into the air when they made a pick at 21.

A long term project pick needs long term - who woulda thunk it. Lets talk again when more people in this thread are legal drinking age.

 

[7even]

No one can tell you exact formula... not even Hakan Andersson... but there is one sure fire way to NOT draft one: take big Coke machines who do not have NHL level vision or puck skills... Petan fits the 'Giroux' mold... Shinkaruk fits the 'Giroux' mold... Gauthier does not

Giroux was the first name that jumped into my mind. I could've just as easily said Lucic (19 points in 65 games his draft year), or, I dunno, recently Tom Wilson? if you wanted coke machine comparables. FWIW, I agree with your sentiment, skill over braun. Gauthier's an intelligent player, so I'm not writing him off, especially since, lord Jesus, it's halfway through his post draft year. Let's take a collective breath in and out. He's shown he can be a PPG player. Maybe that was an apparition, maybe not. But he's shown he can do, which is more than I can say for, say, Biggs, or a guy like McCarron.

I don't think anyone ever accused Giroux or Bergeron for playing smaller than they "are" (Bergeron in particular is hardly a small player). Gauthier looks a bit too relaxed for the type of player he is projected to be at this stage. His smarts are definitely a strength, although he is not a creative player, which is fine. I do find his lack of puck skills a bit alarming.

For the record, I wasn't comparing Gauthier to Giroux or their play styles. And same, re: his puck skills. It's like he refuses to try any stick handling out there at all. Could be a "confidence with the puck" issue, and I'm the last person you'll find using "confidence" as an argument.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

Martin Hanzal is his upside.

Brian Boyle he should at least become.

David Steckel if he underachieves.

Nailed it.