C Dylan Larkin (2014, 15th, DET)

[SimplySolace]

yeah thats why he's getting paid 5m, right? More than any coach, but he has no clue what he's doing?

He said no clue how to handle young players, so nice tunnel vision. Keep looking at dollar amounts and we'll use our 10 year history with the guy.

 

[obey86]

yeah thats why he's getting paid 5m, right? More than any coach, but he has no clue what he's doing?

He makes 6.25M/year I thought? He's a good coach obviously.... but it's true that his weakness is how to handle young players.

 

[Dotter]

yeah thats why he's getting paid 5m, right? More than any coach, but he has no clue what he's doing?

Using that logic, David Clarkson is a legit 30 goal powerforward beast since, you know, TMLs decided to give him 5.25m per.

Point is, monies awarded to personnel doesn't mean they are worth it.

Wings fans are excited to see if Blashill can do better than Babcock did with the young guns. If AHL and pre-season is any indication, it's looking like Blash knows how to get the prospects going with confidence and playing like well oiled machines.

 

[newfy]

Guys leave Semantics alone. He clearly knows how Babcock and the Red Wings operate better than wings fans do since Babcock has been in Toronto for 5 preseason games. Its not like Babcock was in Detroit for a decade or that the wings have been developing prospects this way since the 90s

 

[Pavels Dog]

He makes 6.25M/year I thought? He's a good coach obviously.... but it's true that his weakness is how to handle young players.

No, he has done great things with many young players. Tatar for example made huge improvements to his two-way game and overall offensive game (being less of a puckhog for example) under Babcock. I think people miss these things because they get hung up on the few guys that have struggled (Jurco, Smith) or think that Babcock is responsible for all roster decisions.

Babs had no trouble giving Nyquist opportunities with Zetterberg, he played Jurco with Datsyuk many times, he was going to put Mantha with Datsyuk last camp.. he would have given Larkin pretty much the same chances he's been getting and definitely would have pushed for him to make the NHL roster.

 

[DanZ]

Exactly my point. If Babcock was still coaching the Red Wings, Larkin would not be taking shifts with NHLers like Nyquist and Abdelkader.

He would be on the 3rd/4th line centering Chris Bruton and Mitch Callahan.

Lol you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You're trying to tell Wings fans what Babcock would do after we've watched him for 10 years and you've been watching him for like a month or less?

I laugh at anyone that believes anyone other than Holland runs the Detroit Red Wings.

 

[obey86]

No, he has done great things with many young players. Tatar for example made huge improvements to his two-way game and overall offensive game (being less of a puckhog for example) under Babcock. I think people miss these things because they get hung up on the few guys that have struggled (Jurco, Smith) or think that Babcock is responsible for all roster decisions.

Babs had no trouble giving Nyquist opportunities with Zetterberg, he played Jurco with Datsyuk many times, he was going to put Mantha with Datsyuk last camp.. he would have given Larkin pretty much the same chances he's been getting and definitely would have pushed for him to make the NHL roster.

Tatar didn't even dress the first 8/9 games of the season while Dan Cleary is on the #1 power play for 1/2 the season despite literally finishing the year with 0 power play points.

Babcock refusing to use Brendan Smith to his strengths and give him a shot on the power play while garbage offensive players like Helm, Weiss, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Samuelsson, Legwand, and Eaves all regularly get powerplay time.

He would play Jurco with Datsyuk for like 1 game and then when it didn't work out immediately he would drop Jurco down the lineup again.

Having Pulkkinen in the lineup last year and then playing him on the 4th line as a grinder. And then refusing to even let him dress at all in the playoffs while Joakim Andersson is dressing every game and playing on the 3rd line.

Keeping Zidlicky in the playoff lineup (who had looked terrible for weeks on end) over Marchenko.

That's just off the top of my head.

 

[Kronwalled55]

Exactly my point. If Babcock was still coaching the Red Wings, Larkin would not be taking shifts with NHLers like Nyquist and Abdelkader.

He would be on the 3rd/4th line centering Chris Bruton and Mitch Callahan.

I agree with this. Babcock was always one to make players PROVE they deserved top 6 minutes, even if that meant playing with offensive black holes like Andersson or Miller. There's no way Larkin would have been thrown into the 2nd or top line (albeit preseason) if he was still here.

 

[TheMule93]

I agree with this. Babcock was always one to make players PROVE they deserved top 6 minutes, even if that meant playing with offensive black holes like Andersson or Miller. There's no way Larkin would have been thrown into the 2nd or top line (albeit preseason) if he was still here.

Then why did he want Mantha to get minutes with Datsyuk and Z last preseason? I feel like you guys are just making **** up and ignoring all evidence

 

[DanZ]

I agree with this. Babcock was always one to make players PROVE they deserved top 6 minutes, even if that meant playing with offensive black holes like Andersson or Miller. There's no way Larkin would have been thrown into the 2nd or top line (albeit preseason) if he was still here.

That's false. It depends on the type of player. Larkin is the type of player that Babcock likes. Look at his treatment of Glendenning last season who even had stints on the first line while showing next to no offensive skill at all.

 

[Brandel*]

I wrote about Larkin in this space last week, but he’s fascinating to me. I was talking with an Eastern Conference executive Thursday who said that, during the course of this entire season, he thinks Larkin would outperform Henrik Zetterberg. That’s high praise. People love Larkin. I know it’s Detroit’s preference to start him in the AHL, but it’s going to be hard to keep him out of the lineup.

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/craig-custance/insider/post?id=6475

 

[TheMule93]

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/craig-custance/insider/post?id=6475

If Larkin got the same ice time and PP time as Zetterberg I wouldn't e surprised. Z has slowed down a lot, will probably net 60 points with half of em on the power play

Larkin won't get that opportunity though, and doesn't deserve it yet

 

[Nithoniniel]

If Larkin can outperform Zetterberg while playing his solid two-way game, there is absolutely no reason to have him in the AHL. That's just way beyond being over-ready.

 

[DanZ]

If Larkin can outperform Zetterberg while playing his solid two-way game, there is absolutely no reason to have him in the AHL. That's just way beyond being over-ready.

Yep and he instantly makes the team significantly better. Teams would have to choose between matching up against old man Z and Datsyuk, who can still do serious damage, or the young hot-shot Larkin with speed for dayssss... I can't imagine Larkin not being up full-time at some point this season.

 

[Tatar Shots]

Out perform Zetterberg is out of this world high expectations. In a down year Zetterberg put up 66 points last year.

 

[bobbyt 91*]

Guys leave Semantics alone. He clearly knows how Babcock and the Red Wings operate better than wings fans do since Babcock has been in Toronto for 5 preseason games. Its not like Babcock was in Detroit for a decade or that the wings have been developing prospects this way since the 90s

1 thing tho, Larkin isn't the typical redwings prospect. Usually they are skilled players who need a ton of development and Larkin looks all ready there.
I expect Babs to handle Marner in a similar fashion to the skilled Wing youngsters but handle Nylander a little different.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Tatar didn't even dress the first 8/9 games of the season while Dan Cleary is on the #1 power play for 1/2 the season despite literally finishing the year with 0 power play points.

Yeah Babcock doesn't give kids anything for free. I think that was a way of pushing Tatar too. He was scratched for a bit there and then never again, even when he was playing bad and doing stupid things like stickhandling on the bluelines and creating goals against. In the end Tatar has grown a lot as a player under Babcock. I don't think those few games as a healthy scratch hurt him.

Babcock refusing to use Brendan Smith to his strengths and give him a shot on the power play while garbage offensive players like Helm, Weiss, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Samuelsson, Legwand, and Eaves all regularly get powerplay time.

It's telling that you only give examples of forwards. The 4 forward PP formation leaves little room for Smith. He should have been given more opportunities but frankly Brendan has himself to blame.
Will be interesting to see this year what happens to Smith. We'll see if it was only Babcock's fault that he isn't an elite offensive d-man.

He would play Jurco with Datsyuk for like 1 game and then when it didn't work out immediately he would drop Jurco down the lineup again.

Bit exaggerated. Jurco didn't produce with Datsyuk, he didn't produce with Sheahan or Nyquist or Tatar, and he didn't produce on the powerplay. Babcock tried him everywhere and in the end he ended up on the 4th line. He got plenty of chances.

Having Pulkkinen in the lineup last year and then playing him on the 4th line as a grinder. And then refusing to even let him dress at all in the playoffs while Joakim Andersson is dressing every game and playing on the 3rd line.

I think that has to do with Pulkkinen being small and pretty bad defensively. It's well-known Babcock doesn't love that type of player. Age has nothing to do with it. There wasn't a ton of room for Pulkkinen in the top 6 either. He got some chances on the 3rd line and PP. For a guy getting his first taste of the NHL I don't think he was mistreated.

Keeping Zidlicky in the playoff lineup (who had looked terrible for weeks on end) over Marchenko.

That's just off the top of my head.

I'll give you that Zid was in the lineup too long. In the end Marchenko took the spot.. and didn't look much better.

 

[obey86]

It's telling that you only give examples of forwards. The 4 forward PP formation leaves little room for Smith. He should have been given more opportunities but frankly Brendan has himself to blame.
Will be interesting to see this year what happens to Smith. We'll see if it was only Babcock's fault that he isn't an elite offensive d-man.

He has himself to blame that he didn't take advantage of the PP opportunities he never got? Right. In the last two seasons, playing nearly every game, Smith got a combined 29 PP minutes. Most, if not all, in garbage time. That's not an opportunity. Babcock never even gave him a shot on the PP. He got basically the same amount of time on the PP as Jonathan Ericsson and Kyle Quincey did.

 

[TheMule93]

So how about that Larkin kid, eh? Had a great first period last night - was maybe the best player on our team during the 1st. Was pretty quiet the rest of the game though. Wish they'd play him at his natural position, center. Maybe they realized here would be no room for him on the team at center so they're trying him on the wing?

 

[Risingwind]

I don't see any issue in sending Larkin to AHL for a bit. I'm thinking the Wings consider him the other contender for the next C. The heir and a spare, you know?

Having him play relatively low pressure 3rd line minutes would certainly benefit the team in the short term, but it doesn't prepare Larkin for what could be in his future. Sending him to take over the Griffins' steering wheel on ice is interesting for the coaching staff in many ways: They can observe what his level of leadership is in a regular season environment, they can instruct him in taking care of the guys on and off ice (how to make others around him better players) and most importantly give him 1st line minutes in a professional league. He'll also need to command respect from people who are about twice his age. The Wings are also famous for their system where they keep prospects down, it should also be considered what it looks like in the eyes of the other players. If it's perceived that there's unwarranted favoritism that kind of stuff will start to poison the atmosphere.

Some of these things mentioned Larkin seems to be pretty good at already, but I don't think the Wings are so weak of a team that their success in the league relies on one prospect. They have the luxury to send Larkin down so they should definitely use it. A player like that won't stay down for long anyway, I'm sure everyone will recognize it by that time.

 

[Fear]

Out perform Zetterberg is out of this world high expectations. In a down year Zetterberg put up 66 points last year.

Ya that's a pretty ridiculous statement to make. If he can outperform Zetterberg why would there be a question about starting in the AHL...

 

[Semantics]

He outperformed Jack Eichel at the WJC, and it doesn't seem completely unlikely that he could so again and challenge for the Calder. Given that Zetterberg is old, it doesn't seem that crazy to think his "off" year is his new norm.

 

[jimmyemery]

He outperformed Jack Eichel at the WJC, and it doesn't seem completely unlikely that he could so again and challenge for the Calder. Given that Zetterberg is old, it doesn't seem that crazy to think his "off" year is his new norm.

Whether it was an off year for his "low scoring" or it was his new norm, he scored the same amount of points as Jonathan "intangibles" Toews in less games. So either way.

 

[jimmyemery]

1 thing tho, Larkin isn't the typical redwings prospect. Usually they are skilled players who need a ton of development and Larkin looks all ready there.
I expect Babs to handle Marner in a similar fashion to the skilled Wing youngsters but handle Nylander a little different.

Why does marner and/or nylander get brought up in every other prospects thread?

 

[Henkka]

So how about that Larkin kid, eh? Had a great first period last night - was maybe the best player on our team during the 1st. Was pretty quiet the rest of the game though. Wish they'd play him at his natural position, center. Maybe they realized here would be no room for him on the team at center so they're trying him on the wing?

I think this was the case. Didn't look as good as a winger. Go center Griffins, dominate, and the be called back.