C Connor Bedard - Regina Pats, WHL (2023 Draft) Part 2

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Well 2 things to consider here though as Spezza wasn't as good a prospect as Bedard is and secondly there is now manchild like Ilya Kovalchuk who is in the draft either unless one thinks that Dalibor Dvorsky is that guy.

My point was that Spezza was a Canadian ES player who dominated the OHL as a 17 year old and didn't go #1. Mitchkov could be Kovalchuk in this scenario. Beyond that I think it's debatable that Bedard is better than Spezza.

 

[wetcoast]

My point was that Spezza was a Canadian ES player who dominated the OHL as a 17 year old and didn't go #1. Mitchkov could be Kovalchuk in this scenario. Beyond that I think it's debatable that Bedard is better than Spezza.

Michov has that contract situation and he is a winger so it's doubtfull that he will go number 1 assuming both guys progress the way most people think they will.

I also think that as a pro NHL prospect Bedard is much better than Spezza was at the same time in their development.

Spezza was probably better suited for more immediate junior success due to his size and physical advantage at the same point but Bedard doesn't have the compete level questions that Spezza had

ESPN.com - NHL - Prospect profile: Jason Spezza

To contrast here was the scouting profile of Kovalchuk going into the 2001 draft.

ESPN.com - NHL - Prospect profile: Ilya Kovalchuk

some more information from the predraft on both players is here

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Like a lot of 16 year olds that come to play in the WHL one thing that isn't accounted for is the travel. As someone who did it, I can tell you it takes its toll. Couple that if you play on a bad team and well its really hard to succeed as a 16 year old. Usually takes a couple of months for guys to adjust to that. They played in a bubble in Regina last year and that helped him a lot.

Some of the moves the Pats have made haven't worked out. Svozill is still adjusting to the league and Stringer has been horrible. Also the draft they got Bedard in there 2nd round pick Matthew Wood is committed to College and is one hell of a player.

Mcdavid in his 16 year old season didn't lead his team in scoring he had Connor Brown and Dane Fox a head of him. The Otters went out of there way to surround him with talent. The Pats have nothing like that and have done nothing to improve that. The WHL isn't like the OHL and QMJHL. Teams don't play "nice" when it comes to trading players. The teams in the east like PA, Moose Jaw, Brandon and Swift Current rely on fans coming to watch and they need good teams to get them in. I would say all 4 of those teams are kind of meh this year. If this was those other Junior leagues you might have seen Regina get a Guhle, Grieg, or Korczak. That is highly unlikely though.

So here you are. A 16 year old who had a fantastic half season in a bubble that suddenly has to be the guy in an incredibly competitive league with almost no help around you and people will start to be critical of your play. Its likely he is going to go to the u17s this year and my guess is he will be dominate once again and put those to ideas to rest.

Look I am not feeling sorry for Bedard but man the WHL sure doesn't do itself any favors by trying to promote and make sure a guy like that will succeed like those other leagues will do.

 

[Bubbles]

My point was that Spezza was a Canadian ES player who dominated the OHL as a 17 year old and didn't go #1. Mitchkov could be Kovalchuk in this scenario. Beyond that I think it's debatable that Bedard is better than Spezza.

Spezza was never a ES player, so there goes your argument. He was allowed to play close to home as a 15 year old, before the Exceptional Status rules came into play.

 

[kyle44]

Like a lot of 16 year olds that come to play in the WHL one thing that isn't accounted for is the travel. As someone who did it, I can tell you it takes its toll. Couple that if you play on a bad team and well its really hard to succeed as a 16 year old. Usually takes a couple of months for guys to adjust to that. They played in a bubble in Regina last year and that helped him a lot.

Some of the moves the Pats have made haven't worked out. Svozill is still adjusting to the league and Stringer has been horrible. Also the draft they got Bedard in there 2nd round pick Matthew Wood is committed to College and is one hell of a player.

Mcdavid in his 16 year old season didn't lead his team in scoring he had Connor Brown and Dane Fox a head of him. The Otters went out of there way to surround him with talent. The Pats have nothing like that and have done nothing to improve that. The WHL isn't like the OHL and QMJHL. Teams don't play "nice" when it comes to trading players. The teams in the east like PA, Moose Jaw, Brandon and Swift Current rely on fans coming to watch and they need good teams to get them in. I would say all 4 of those teams are kind of meh this year. If this was those other Junior leagues you might have seen Regina get a Guhle, Grieg, or Korczak. That is highly unlikely though.

So here you are. A 16 year old who had a fantastic half season in a bubble that suddenly has to be the guy in an incredibly competitive league with almost no help around you and people will start to be critical of your play. Its likely he is going to go to the u17s this year and my guess is he will be dominate once again and put those to ideas to rest.

Look I am not feeling sorry for Bedard but man the WHL sure doesn't do itself any favors by trying to promote and make sure a guy like that will succeed like those other leagues will do.

Do we know if the U-17 is going ahead this year? I haven't been able to find anything on it.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Spezza was never a ES player, so there goes your argument. He was allowed to play close to home as a 15 year old, before the Exceptional Status rules came into play.

Totally forgot that, but if I recall had he not played for his hometown team it was generally accepted he would have been granted ES had he needed it.

 

[ORRFForever]

We need to stop worrying about how great Bedard will be. Just let him play and enjoy.

 

[Bubbles]

Totally forgot that, but if I recall had he not played for his hometown team it was generally accepted he would have been granted ES had he needed it.

There was no such thing back in the day. The ES rule was established in 2005, commonly known as the John Tavares rule.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

There was no such thing back in the day. The ES rule was established in 2005, commonly known as the John Tavares rule.

Right, but what they are saying is true - under current circumstances Spezza was easily good enough to be granted ES. He was over a pt per game at 15.

Another somewhat similar example is Dan Cleary - not ES but a late BDAY who had 81 pts in his D-2, 115 pts in D-1, was seen as a surefire #1 overall and franchise player....and the had a "mere" 80 in his draft year and fell out of the top 10.

Prospects are not always linear. Again, way too early to tell what Bedard will be, he could still be an elite franchise changing talent, or maybe he won't be, just what happens at 16/17 doesn't always guarantee anything.

 

[Baaaaaaaaaaaaah]

Lights up the international stage and now everyone cherry picking a couple WHL games. Short memories. Relax, this kid is special.

 

[Bubbles]

Right, but what they are saying is true - under current circumstances Spezza was easily good enough to be granted ES. He was over a pt per game at 15.

Another somewhat similar example is Dan Cleary - not ES but a late BDAY who had 81 pts in his D-2, 115 pts in D-1, was seen as a surefire #1 overall and franchise player....and the had a "mere" 80 in his draft year and fell out of the top 10.

Prospects are not always linear. Again, way too early to tell what Bedard will be, he could still be an elite franchise changing talent, or maybe he won't be, just what happens at 16/17 doesn't always guarantee anything.

Agreed on all points. Another example was Rico Fata, who was allowed to play as a 15 year old.

Bedard being the first WHL ES player is worthy of closer scrutiny, but the levels some users with their personal agendas against him are hilarious. I'm enjoying watching his progress, and how he responds. I just ignore the clear trolling posts and those who post in this thread about how he had a scoreless game.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Jason Spezza would disagree with you.

Was he considered ES? I think it was a similar rule, but a little different back then. And that was 20 years ago. Cut it down to the last 10 or so years for a more modern look at the picture.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

It just sounds like people are making A LOT of excuses for Bedard in this thread. I get it, context obviously matters, but Bedard shouldn't be consider to be on the same tier as McDavid, the undisputed best player on the planet, if so many causes are needed to justify his relatively poor production

 

[Castle8130]

The emotional rollercoaster in this thread is ridiculous. 2 months ago people are saying "HE'S THE NEXT MCDAVID!" and now people are bashing him for a slow start with nearly 2 years before he is drafted. I thought he was overhyped to begin with, but he is definitely a special player. He's got a lot of time to develop, relax.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Do we know if the U-17 is going ahead this year? I haven't been able to find anything on it.

You may be right it might be canceled

 

[Gold Standard]

You may be right it might be canceled

That's alright. He can play WJHC at Christmas. and if he doesn't play at Christmas there's always the another U18 tournament in April. That would ne nice.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

That's alright. He can play WJHC at Christmas. and if he doesn't play at Christmas there's always the another U18 tournament in April. That would ne nice.

I was always thinking he would be the 13th forward for that team and likely work his way on to the top lines as the tourney went along. He is a game breaker for sure and I think he will end up scoring big goals for Canada at the WJC this year

 

[JamieG19]

Connor Bedard is going to be the next great Generational Superstar and anyone who can't see it either ain't too smart about hockey or has some kind of bias against him.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You may be right it might be canceled

I think it is. The other countries that usually participate already scheduled another tournament in November, so that’ll probably replace the usual WHC17 for them.

 

[CutOnDime97]

The emotional rollercoaster in this thread is ridiculous. 2 months ago people are saying "HE'S THE NEXT MCDAVID!" and now people are bashing him for a slow start with nearly 2 years before he is drafted. I thought he was overhyped to begin with, but he is definitely a special player. He's got a lot of time to develop, relax.

I don't think he's McDavid but also tough to say he was overhyped seeing what he did in the WHL and U18 last year.

 

[I am toxic]

I don't think he's McDavid but also tough to say he was overhyped seeing what he did in the WHL and U18 last year.

It's overhyping things to say he was overhyped.

But HFBoards gonna HFBoards. It's toxic but . . . I love it.

Well, of course I do.

 

[93LEAFS]

Veleno and Day are prime examples of ES guys who haven't lived up to the hype.

As for Spezza, he wasn't ES but he would have been if the current rules existed. Same with Jay Bouwmeester. The rules were changed in the OHL due to teams abusing the local 15-year-old rules playing guys who weren't OHL level with guys like Richard Power who eventually went undrafted. Maybe Spezza never reached the heights people projected of him when he was a 16 year old to make team Canada WJC, but he's still had a hell of a career.

But, as always around here, there is constantly a rush to label a kid generational. Seems to happen almost every year at this point.

 

[wetcoast]

Veleno and Day are prime examples of ES guys who haven't lived up to the hype.

As for Spezza, he wasn't ES but he would have been if the current rules existed. Same with Jay Bouwmeester. The rules were changed in the OHL due to teams abusing the local 15-year-old rules playing guys who weren't OHL level with guys like Richard Power who eventually went undrafted. Maybe Spezza never reached the heights people projected of him when he was a 16 year old to make team Canada WJC, but he's still had a hell of a career.

But, as always around here, there is constantly a rush to label a kid generational. Seems to happen almost every year at this point.

Never heard of Richard Power before but his 15 year old stat line looked very good for his age, what kind of player was he like and what happened?

 

[93LEAFS]

Never heard of Richard Power before but his 15 year old stat line looked very good for his age, what kind of player was he like and what happened?

I actually messed up there. Not sure exactly, but for whatever reason Elite has him mis-labeled as a 15 year old in 2000-2001, when he was actually 16. There was just a few guys around the time of Spezza who got OHL time at 15 who many didn't view as ready. Hence why they ended that loophole, and only created a new rule when Tavares petitioned the OHL/CHL.

 

[Bubbles]

Veleno and Day are prime examples of ES guys who haven't lived up to the hype.

As for Spezza, he wasn't ES but he would have been if the current rules existed. Same with Jay Bouwmeester. The rules were changed in the OHL due to teams abusing the local 15-year-old rules playing guys who weren't OHL level with guys like Richard Power who eventually went undrafted. Maybe Spezza never reached the heights people projected of him when he was a 16 year old to make team Canada WJC, but he's still had a hell of a career.

But, as always around here, there is constantly a rush to label a kid generational. Seems to happen almost every year at this point.

Day should have never been granted ES, heck he wasn't even drafted 1st overall in the OHL draft, he was 4th!

Hockey Canada was so scared he would jump to the USHL that they gave it to him without looking properly. I think they've learnt their lesson and are doing a much more thorough check on potential ES applicants now.