TheKrebsCycle
Throwing Confetti for Perfetti
Hahah he's stammering he's getting so worked up. Matthews is going to be a beaut
C Auston Matthews - ZSC Lions, NLA (2016 Draft) IV
- Thread starter JawandaPuck
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Hahah he's stammering he's getting so worked up. Matthews is going to be a beaut
FlareKnight
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Beukeboom
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- Apr 1, 2007
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Anyone care to elaborate on Babcock, Matthews future coach? To be honest I have felt that he has been slightly overrated over the years.
He does have one SC and another 2 finals so that is of course pretty good. But then yet he did have Detroit and all the talent there in. He has 2 Olympic golds which of course is great, but he didn't do it with the worst player material so to speak. Also he has won WCH, WJC. So clearly he is not bad. But isn't he a bit overrated still?
What I don't like about him is that he seems to be anti fighting. I hate soft hockey and his Detroit has been softest of them all. Is he really as anti fighting as they say or was it more a product of the Detroit management being anti fighting?
And most importantly, what effect could he have on Matthews? I know he likes puck possession and two way play so most likely he'll do wonders for Matthews' two way game. But does Babcock hamper offensive stats? Would Datsyuk have had more points under say Dan Bylsma? Will Matthews get less points under Babcock than would have been the case elsewhere?
He does have one SC and another 2 finals so that is of course pretty good. But then yet he did have Detroit and all the talent there in. He has 2 Olympic golds which of course is great, but he didn't do it with the worst player material so to speak. Also he has won WCH, WJC. So clearly he is not bad. But isn't he a bit overrated still?
What I don't like about him is that he seems to be anti fighting. I hate soft hockey and his Detroit has been softest of them all. Is he really as anti fighting as they say or was it more a product of the Detroit management being anti fighting?
And most importantly, what effect could he have on Matthews? I know he likes puck possession and two way play so most likely he'll do wonders for Matthews' two way game. But does Babcock hamper offensive stats? Would Datsyuk have had more points under say Dan Bylsma? Will Matthews get less points under Babcock than would have been the case elsewhere?
Goons are being phased out of the game and fighting is going away. Shanahan appears to be in the anti-fighting camp, and my guess is the analytics guys also are. I'm glad Leafs will have a somewhat competent 4th line, and I won't have to see Colton Orr on the ice or McLaren. He's a top 5 coach in the game, is he clearly the best, probably not, but he's better then almost any coach that ever hits the open market.
Eternal Leaf
Registered User
If Laine is the next Ovechkin and Matthews goes 1st, what does that make him? Crosby? 
And if McDavid is better than both, what does that make him? Gretzky?
And if McDavid is better than both, what does that make him? Gretzky?
Regarding team talent:
A coach has to be able to work with that talent. Look at the Capitals, Sharks and Blues. They've all had tremendously talented rosters over the years, but no coach has ever gotten them to the promised land.
About team toughness
I'm not sure what fighting has to do with it. Fighting is on its way out. Detroit was never a soft team. They were always a big, physical groups with Babcock around. They weren't fighting or laying thunderous hits, but Babcock always got his guys to buy in to the importance of playing in the dirty areas. That team was always excellent along the boards and in front of the net, which is something Babcock preached in Detroit and now in Toronto.
Regarding points
Again, I don't see an issue. Babcock had three players that were consistently near the top of the league at their positions in scoring. Could Datsyuk have been a hundred point guy with Boudreau as his coach? Probably. But would Detroit have been as successful? Not a chance. Defense is as important as offense. Look at it this way. Which version of Steve Yzerman would you rather build a team around? The 130 point guy that won jack all or the 80 point guy that led his team to multiple championships?
Scotty Bowman figured it out. You don't win by being a great point producer. You win by playing responsible hockey in all three zones.
A coach has to be able to work with that talent. Look at the Capitals, Sharks and Blues. They've all had tremendously talented rosters over the years, but no coach has ever gotten them to the promised land.
About team toughness
I'm not sure what fighting has to do with it. Fighting is on its way out. Detroit was never a soft team. They were always a big, physical groups with Babcock around. They weren't fighting or laying thunderous hits, but Babcock always got his guys to buy in to the importance of playing in the dirty areas. That team was always excellent along the boards and in front of the net, which is something Babcock preached in Detroit and now in Toronto.
Regarding points
Again, I don't see an issue. Babcock had three players that were consistently near the top of the league at their positions in scoring. Could Datsyuk have been a hundred point guy with Boudreau as his coach? Probably. But would Detroit have been as successful? Not a chance. Defense is as important as offense. Look at it this way. Which version of Steve Yzerman would you rather build a team around? The 130 point guy that won jack all or the 80 point guy that led his team to multiple championships?
Scotty Bowman figured it out. You don't win by being a great point producer. You win by playing responsible hockey in all three zones.
Beukeboom
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Well good answers. Since I am no Toronto fan but just a hockey connoisseur I prefer a lot of goals, hits and fights. So a coach that doesn't like the last two and decrease the first in favour of defense is a boring coach imo. Had I been a Toronto fan I'd like to win. But a 4th line with a modern Domi would work. He took more points than todays forthliners anyway. Also Boston and Los Angeles, heavy hard hitting teams have done great, and of course offensive Chicago as well. Puck possession Detroit, not so much.
In regards to the Yzerman question I'll take the wildly offensive and hard hitting early 90's to today's hockey any day of the week. I find todays hockey pretty boring, but that is a subject for another thread.
I do like young great prospects however so it will be exciting to see what Babcock can do. I'm not sure I see Matthews as much as a two way forwards as other see. I kind of think he is an offensive minded center but with an unusual defensive awarness for being offensive. So no Kopitar or Barkov but more a Malkin with extre defense.
In regards to the Yzerman question I'll take the wildly offensive and hard hitting early 90's to today's hockey any day of the week. I find todays hockey pretty boring, but that is a subject for another thread.
I do like young great prospects however so it will be exciting to see what Babcock can do. I'm not sure I see Matthews as much as a two way forwards as other see. I kind of think he is an offensive minded center but with an unusual defensive awarness for being offensive. So no Kopitar or Barkov but more a Malkin with extre defense.
GretzkytoLemieux
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- May 12, 2016
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Yeah from my admittedly brief bit of watching the thing I notice more than anything are his hands, vision, IQ, the sweet offensive skills. I mean his playmaking is pretty ridiculous at times. Moves of great skill and cleverness.
Liminality
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- Oct 22, 2008
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Yeah his defense has improved under Crawford but I'm not sure he's going to be on par with Kopitar in his career. He'll be no slouch and very defensively responsible under Babcock but I think Babcock's offensive puck possession game and puck pressure will work very well with him and his talents.
Hard to find a good comparison with Matthews without getting crazy but I think I like the Mike Modano comparison. Speedy, mobile scorer but just as talented playmaker who plays all situations.
Modano was pretty close to Matthews size too at 6'3 207lbs.
Broke the 90 point mark a couple of times but was mainly a consistent ppg threat who played everywhere. Seemed like a pretty consistent playoff performer also.
mike8219
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kylbaz
Winnipeg <3
- Nov 14, 2015
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Someone link me to the play he's talking about?
** found it, was expecting a lot better the way Ferraro was talking about it, still looks really good out there though:
http://www.tsn.ca/must-see/video/must-see-matthews-picks-up-pretty-assist~869001
Ferraro talks about the guy playing D on him (forget his name), and tries to make it sound like Mathews was skating circles around him. THe guy played him just fine, kept him to the outside the whole time, so not sure what Ferraro is talking about.
Between pre-draft McDavid, pre-draft Eichel and Matthews, I will say that Matthews' defensive game is better than theres was last year.
The Winter Soldier
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- Apr 4, 2011
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for reference guys
I really don't think this is a good comparison. Marc Pierre Bouchard at 32 who is playing out the string in the twilight of his career was the scoring champion of NLA this year at 1.37 PPG this year.
It's hard to compare stats from a strike year with NHL'ers playing and journeyman hockey players playing in it.
Now saying that Matthews is a great prospect that was a very mature 18 this year. He is a NHL ready player playing in the NLA. I would agree what he did in NLA was impressive. But I would still not compare his season to the chart above.
Chicago plays a puck possession game, and yes Domi could work on a modern 4th line because he was actually a competent player. Guys like Colton Orr, Boogard, Belak, McLaren, John Scott etc have no place in the modern game. I'm fine with the coaching approach, and an emphasis on possession. Its much better than watching the mess of a team that Wilson coached.
haulinbass
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- Mar 6, 2014
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Matthews looks as good defensively as any 18 year old prospect with the super rare exception of a guy like Barkov. Not many at 17-18 years old play the game defensively like him.
He knows where to be and breaks up a lot of plays.
Not saying he is going to be a Selke candidate but nobody will be questioning his defensive game in a couple years from now. Going to be a great hockey player.
ugh....bouchard still tallied a few seasons of 60 point seasons in the NHL? stop trying to downplay Matthews, its literally getting pathetic with your attempts. This was his first time playing against men, on European ice, in a professional hockey league with absolutely zero experience. He had an exceptional year and I'm not the slightest bit surprised your here to try to downplay his accomplishment.
The Winter Soldier
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Actually in virtually almost every post I have mentioned Matthews in a thread. I have gone out of my way to say he is a great prospect, infact I did in the very post you claim I am deliberately downplaying him. So I don't know why you would make such a claim. Surely you read this.
What you did however was deceptive, you posted star NHL players stats in a strike season where the competition was better than this year(no strike) and infer Matthews stats were comparable. This is not a proper representation without the proper context in which I brought up. I even added what Matthews did in NLA was very impressive. But they are simply not the same situations to the list you compared all players stats.
As for Marc Pierre Bouchard, this is the 32 year old Marc Pierre Bouchard who couldn't land a regular job in the NHL that led NLA in scoring, not the 22 year old that was 1 point shy of 60 points in 05-06, 10 years ago.
FlareKnight
Registered User
Yeah, his defense looks pretty darn good for an 18 year old center. I don't know how good it will end up being, but he should be a pretty complete center with Babcock as his coach for a very long time.
Lot of good things to like about this guy. Should just keep on improving with the kind of work ethic he's got.
Not many players went to Switzerland during the lockout, this has been proven multiple times on here when these stats have been brought up. The quality of competition did not increase by a significant margin to warrant that post out of context. Try again
TheLeastOfTheBunch
Franchise Centre
Yeah, there's a solid foundation to work on with a player like Matthews. There's room for improvement for any 18 year old, and Auston is no different. Definitely excited to see how his game grows under Babcock
Considering the general weakness of the league, 16 NHL players is a somewhat significant amount but yeah it's not like the teams were comprised of top 6s of NHL players or anything. Still, it gives every single team a first class top 1 threat, a couple teams would get two of those.
Oh, guess it was 18.
Last edited:
The Winter Soldier
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NHL'ers during the 12-13 season that played in Switzerland.
Luca Sbisa
Patrice Bergeron
Tyler Seguin
Tyler Ennis
Damien Brunner
Henrik Zetterberg
Jared Spurgeon
Raphael Diaz
Yannick Weber
Patric Hörnqvist
Roman Josi
John Tavares
Mark Streit
Rick Nash
Jason Spezza
Joe Thornton
Logan Couture
Brooks Laich
Depends what your criteria is when you claim "not many players". Regardless 2012-13 is not the same year as 2015-16.
of course it increases the overall talent, but even still, the kid cemented himself well above some big point producers. Matthews has the maturity level to his game to play against a lot of those top players. He contained himself very well against Canada in the WHC and doesnt look out of place playing against NHL stars. Im sure playing against these players in the NLA probably would have an effect on his point production, but then we also have to take into consideration that these players have plenty of NHL experience while Matthews has absolutely none. Matthews was learning to play against men this entire year while the NHL players during the lockout that played in the NLA was maintaining their playing level, to be ready for the NHL season.
The Winter Soldier
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I have read your point. And frankly your last one was
Which was proven to be inaccurate. You also posted stats of Matthews and compared them to proven NHL'ers in a completely different situation. Even on that graph you posted, it noted Matthews stats were in a non strike NHL season. So your points are really not good ones.
Does this mean Matthews is not a great prospect? No he is. Any team that drafts him is getting a terrific player in the near future if not as soon as next season. But let's not try to post stats linking what Tavares or Spezza in an entirely different situation to this year, when a 32 year old Marc Pierre Bouchard who is not a good enough player to play in the NHL the past 2 seasons is the leading scorer in NLA.
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