C Auston Matthews - ZSC Lions, NLA (2016 Draft) III

[Seachd]

I think comparing leagues to try to compare top prospects is just plain silly and a waste of time.

I also don't see how Aho even belongs in the same conversation with the other three, so what do I know?

 

[Ippenator]

I think comparing leagues to try to compare top prospects is just plain silly and a waste of time.

I also don't see how Aho even belongs in the same conversation with the other three, so what do I know?

He was brought in just as a prospect of the same level as the three draft eligibles are. And because he is only 2 months older than Matthews. Of course he is not related to this year's draft by any means.

Yes comparing the leagues is probably silly. But if the only truly comparable common competition between these players is not accepted as any grounds to define their potential, and the statistics from totally different leagues are constantly brought in without good knowledge about these leagues and used as the only real valid way to define their talent, this kind of silly comparisons have to happen.

 

[Seachd]

He was brought in just as a prospect of the same level as the three draft eligibles are. And because he is only 2 months older than Matthews. Of course he is not related to this year's draft by any means.

Obviously I'm not talking about the draft year.

 

[TJL48]

I also don't see how Aho even belongs in the same conversation with the other three, so what do I know?

He doesn't.

 

[BrianSTC]

Is it possible that this thread can revert back to being about AUSTON MATTHEWS!
Can the Finnish posters pimping Finnish players go to that particular Finnish player's thread?

 

[supermann_98]

Is it possible that this thread can revert back to being about AUSTON MATTHEWS!
Can the Finnish posters pimping Finnish players go to that particular Finnish player's thread?

Amen!

 

[Hardyvan123]

My opinion on Granlund being one of the best on the big surface rink wasn't as much based on his WHC performances as his great playing in the Olympics in Sochi. He was again magnificent there and definitely one of the better players in the whole tournament. I think we will still see this in the future if the Olympics are still played in the big surface rinks with NHL players. Still as a reminder, Granlund was 3rd in the Sochi scoring ranking and only one point behind the leading Kessel and Karlsson. Was this not a valid way to define how good Granlund is on the big surface ice against all the best players in the world? Well, probably some North Americans will find several excuses to this also...

Simply put one shouldn't put too much stock in any 6 game sample.

I like Granlund and if his skating was even 25% better I might agree with you on his top end value but it isn't and he just can't even be considered as one of the best players in the world in any serious context...period.

I mean Dale Weise had a 4-5-1-6 run earlier in the season for Montreal but no one was seriously considering him as even a top 100 goal scorer in the world then were they?

I'm using this extreme example to prove the obvious point here.

 

[Alexandrov]

Can someone point me to the Auston Matthews thread? It seems I took a wrong turn somewhere

 

[Ippenator]

Simply put one shouldn't put too much stock in any 6 game sample.

I like Granlund and if his skating was even 25% better I might agree with you on his top end value but it isn't and he just can't even be considered as one of the best players in the world in any serious context...period.

I mean Dale Weise had a 4-5-1-6 run earlier in the season for Montreal but no one was seriously considering him as even a top 100 goal scorer in the world then were they?

I'm using this extreme example to prove the obvious point here.

I think you haven't followed and understood very well how hockey is played in a European rink. Granlund is exactly the type of player who is totally unable to play his own game in the smaller rink. This is because in the smaller rink the game is much more about constant stop and go and constantly braking and accelerating. This is exactly a huge problem for Granlund and his type of players because their biggest weakness is the poor accelerating. Granlund has definitely developed his full speed skating to an acceptable level during the last couple of years, but his acceleration is way too slow for especially a player of his size. Because of this he can't get himself well enough past opponents when he has the puck, even if he would otherwise have the skills to do it well. And because of his bad acceleration he can't get himself well enough inside the game while he is without the puck when his team is attacking as well as when they are defending.

A very similar player is Petri Kontiola, whom was excellent in FEL, KHL and WHC, but was absolutely horrible in the NHL and even AHL. Granlund has so much of skill and hockey IQ, that he can somehow compensate his bad acceleration, lack of strength and weak shot. Because of this he has been able to at least have a respectable NHL career so far, although nothing spectacular unfortunately. Kontiola didn't have as good skills and hockey IQ, so he didn't have a chance to have any kind of NHL career. Both of them are still absolutely excellent and different players when they are healthy and playing on a big surface ice. For some players this issue with the size of the rinks can be absolutely crucial. And as I already mentioned, Granlund is one of the players whom are the most affected by the rink size. Next time that a big international men's tournament is played on the bigger surface, it will be again seen how Granlund is one of the best players in the bigger rink.

Sorry everyone for the offtopic(s). Just had to still comment this one. I will now rest my case and comment on this thread only if I have something to say that is straightforwardly related to Matthews.

 

[Beukeboom]

Lindgren and Immonen have been going steep downhill already for years in the Finnish player ranking. Lindgren has not been considered for even meaningless EHT tournaments in years. And Immonen has been a total shadow of his prime time for already years. If these guys can score so well in NLA, it makes me think that there's really a huge difference with the defending and the goaltending between FEL and NLA.

Well I don't think we'll get any further. Aho is already drafted and he isn't playing in NHL so by just making NHL next season (which Matthews will) he clearly is leagues above Aho. The fact that you say they are at a similar level say it all.

Puljujariv might not be ready for NHL next year. I have a hard time to see how he will go from not dominating the finnish league to play in NHL at all. The only other prospect that has a chance is Laine.

 

[OkimLom]

Can someone point me to the Auston Matthews thread? It seems I took a wrong turn somewhere

It's funny; My GPS says you have arrived at your destination, but the Finnish Flags, and the discussion about Finnish players makes me think I have a defective device...

 

[LoveNHL]

It's funny; My GPS says you have arrived at your destination, but the Finnish Flags, and the discussion about Finnish players makes me think I have a defective device...

Finnish trolls are pro.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

It's funny; My GPS says you have arrived at your destination, but the Finnish Flags, and the discussion about Finnish players makes me think I have a defective device...

You're clearly using Apple Maps. The Auston Matthews thread is here.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Point is that shooting percentages between players do not differ all that much between players in long run. Ovechkin has career shooting percentage of 12,4, Hossa has 12,3 and Kovalchuk 14,1 while NHL average being 9,1, and among forwards 10,8. NLA avereage percen is around 8,5 so 22 is at least a bit crazy.

What do you think Kovalchuk's shooting percentage would be in the NLA? Probably closing in on 20.

Matthews is an elite goal scorer and selective shooter. I wouldn't be shocked to see him finish with a sh% near 20.

 

[leafsfuture]

I think you haven't followed and understood very well how hockey is played in a European rink. Granlund is exactly the type of player who is totally unable to play his own game in the smaller rink. This is because in the smaller rink the game is much more about constant stop and go and constantly braking and accelerating. This is exactly a huge problem for Granlund and his type of players because their biggest weakness is the poor accelerating. Granlund has definitely developed his full speed skating to an acceptable level during the last couple of years, but his acceleration is way too slow for especially a player of his size. Because of this he can't get himself well enough past opponents when he has the puck, even if he would otherwise have the skills to do it well. And because of his bad acceleration he can't get himself well enough inside the game while he is without the puck when his team is attacking as well as when they are defending.

A very similar player is Petri Kontiola, whom was excellent in FEL, KHL and WHC, but was absolutely horrible in the NHL and even AHL. Granlund has so much of skill and hockey IQ, that he can somehow compensate his bad acceleration, lack of strength and weak shot. Because of this he has been able to at least have a respectable NHL career so far, although nothing spectacular unfortunately. Kontiola didn't have as good skills and hockey IQ, so he didn't have a chance to have any kind of NHL career. Both of them are still absolutely excellent and different players when they are healthy and playing on a big surface ice. For some players this issue with the size of the rinks can be absolutely crucial. And as I already mentioned, Granlund is one of the players whom are the most affected by the rink size. Next time that a big international men's tournament is played on the bigger surface, it will be again seen how Granlund is one of the best players in the bigger rink.

Sorry everyone for the offtopic(s). Just had to still comment this one. I will now rest my case and comment on this thread only if I have something to say that is straightforwardly related to Matthews.

I just want to say, this is one of the most intuitive posts I have read ever about international vs NHL ice. I cant necessarily comment on the analysis of Granlund, but when it comes to comparing the ice surfaces, you are 100% correct.

I expect Petri Kontiola to continue to go around being a presence in World Championships, but he sucks on the NHL ice.

 

[Ippenator]

Well I don't think we'll get any further. Aho is already drafted and he isn't playing in NHL so by just making NHL next season (which Matthews will) he clearly is leagues above Aho. The fact that you say they are at a similar level say it all.

Puljujariv might not be ready for NHL next year. I have a hard time to see how he will go from not dominating the finnish league to play in NHL at all. The only other prospect that has a chance is Laine.

First of all it is good to remember that Aho is only 2 months older than Matthews. Aho was one of the youngest player in his draft and Matthews is one of the oldest in his draft. This gives quite an advantage for Matthews in draft picks. Especially in the case that Aho has developed considerably during the last year. I agree that Matthews has been a great talent already long and his developing has been steady and quite much how it has been projected so far. But Aho has taken huge steps in his development during the last two years, especially last year. What people who haven't seen Aho play much don't understand is that Aho has a totally amazing hockey IQ. His sense of the game is just unbelievable. This is why he is clearly leading FEL with +20 and has a clear margin to any of his teammates in this statistic. He is also a top 10 player with his PPG in FEL, which is also quite amazing taken into account how exceptionally well he plays defensively. I think it's fair to to look at their small age difference and say that if they both play in the NHL next season, they are not leagues apart - even literally.

But anyway as this is a Matthews thread, I have to point out that Matthews is still the most balanced player in this year's draft. And more balanced than any of the three great Finnish prospects that I have been praising so much. Still to me Laine is the biggest talent of these four great young players, because of his spectacular shot, huge size and good skating for such a big guy. His hockey sence is also very good. I see Matthews, Pulju and Aho as the same class talents with each others, but definitely Matthews is a less risky prospect of these three. He really doesn't seem to have any clear weaknesses. Pulju's weakness is his inability to use his shot quickly and accurately in traffic. He should also develop using his great size much better to be a great NHL player. Otherwise I think he has all the tools to become a star player. Aho's only real weakness is his lack of size and strength. But in my opinion he has the best hockey IQ of this bunch and his skating is really good too, so I see it so that he will be able to overcome his weaknesses and be a good NHL player already next season.

I admit that if the NHL teams want to pick the least risky draft eligible player, it probably should be Matthews. But if they are willing to take even a tiny risk, then Laine would be my clear choice. All in all, a really great draft this year. I see it in fact as maybe an even better quality draft than last year was. Of course McDavid is in his own class. But the top three players in this year's draft are in my opinion at least as good talents as Eichel is, and most likely even a bit better ones. In my opinion Eichel has been at least slightly overhyped, although definitely a very talented player. I just like more what I have seen so far with Laine, Matthews and Pulju.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

First of all it is good to remember that Aho is only 2 months older than Matthews. Aho was one of the youngest player in his draft and Matthews is one of the oldest in his draft. This gives quite an advantage in draft picks. Especially in the case that Aho has developed considerably during the last year. I agree that Matthews has been a great talent already long and his developing has been steady and quite much how it has been projected so far. But Aho has taken huge steps in his development during the last two years, especially last year. What people who haven't seen Aho play much don't understand is that Aho has a totally amazing hockey IQ. His sense of the game is just unbelievable. This is why he is clearly leading FEL with +20 and has a clear margin to any of his teammates in this statistic. He is also a top 10 player with his PPG in FEL, which is also quite amazing taken into account how exceptionally well he plays defensively. I think it's fair to to look at their small age difference and say that if they both play in the NHL next season, they are not leagues apart - even literally.

But anyway as this is a Matthews thread, I have to point out that Matthews is still the most balanced player in this year's draft. And more balanced than any of the three great Finnish prospects that I have been praising so much. Still to me Laine is the biggest prospect of these four great young players, because of his spectacular shot, huge size and good skating for such a big guy. His hockey sence is also very good. I see Matthews, Pulju and Aho as the same class talents with each others, but definitely Matthews is a less risky prospect of these three. He really doesn't seem to have any clear weaknesses. Pulju's weakness is his inability to use his shot quickly and accurately in traffic. He should also develop using his great size much better to be a great NHL player. Otherwise I think he has all the tools to become a star player. Aho's only real weakness is his lack of size and strength. But in my opinion he has the best hockey IQ of this bunch and his skating is really good too, so I see it so that he will be able to overcome his weaknesses and be a good NHL player already next season.

I admit that if the NHL teams want to pick the least risky draft eligible player, it probably should be Matthews. But if they are willing to take even a tiny risk, then Laine would be my clear choice. All in all, a really great draft this year. I see it in fact as maybe an even better quality draft than last year was. Of course McDavid is in his own class. But the top three players in this year's draft are in my opinion at least as good talents as Eichel is, and most likely even a bit better ones. In my opinion Eichel has been at least slightly overhyped, although definitely a very talented player. I just like more what I have seen so far with Laine, Matthews and Pulju.

I've been on the Laine hype train for awhile, kid is mega good. That said, he's not on Eichel's level, and can't control the game like Matthews.

Huge fan of Aho, too. Not sure he belongs in this conversation, but I think he could have been a top 15 pick last year. His IQ, hands, and tenacity will make him a solid NHL player. Reminds me a bit of David Krejci.

 

[WaltWhitman]

I have really liked what I've seen from Matthews. For some reason he reminds me a bit of Selanne but much better.

 

[LoveNHL]

I have really liked what I've seen from Matthews. For some reason he reminds me a bit of Selanne but much better.

Troll counter attack vs finns

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

To me, Laine is a young Peltonen.

 

[Jussi]

Troll counter attack vs finns

Doomed to fail. One does not simply out troll the Finns.

 

[Riggins]

Doomed to fail. One does not simply out troll the Finns.

Judging by long expositions on Matthews vs. Aho... you sir are correct.

Based on all 7 Canadian teams being in the bottom 10 of the standings it's looking like a pretty good chance that one of them ends up with Auston.

 

[Loffer]

To me, Laine is a young Peltonen.

 

[Beukeboom]

Two goals tonight. Haven't seen them yet but they are pretty swift at adding highlights at the Swiss leagues' webpage.

 

[APVJ]

Better than Eichel