C Auston Matthews - USNTDP, USHL (2016 Draft)

[Voight]

Basketball too. There's a number of players that are internationals in that league and a few even come up through the NBADL. Honestly it surprises me that more people don't do what Matthews is doing when it comes to basketball. Go over to Europe or Australia for a year, get paid, live it up, and still be a top pick in the NBA draft. Beats being a one and done in college ball IMHO.

Brandon Jennings did it in 2008, played 1 year in Italy and made 1.2 million, still was drafted in the top 10.

Top 2015 prospect Emmanuel Mudiay originally committed to the SMU Mustangs but signed on to play in China for this season and also made 1.2 million, he's still a projected top 5 pick.

 

[Patmac40]

Yeah but they're a CHL team, not NCAA, so every player will become an NHL superstar. Nice try.

Well 17 of the top 30 in scoring this year played in the CHL, 2 played in the NCAA. It's not a secret as to which route produces more high-level players. Not that I'm arguing that the NCAA is an inferior league.

 

[Semantics]

The two people discrediting debating CHL>NHL are someone with the username "canuck" and the other with a maple leaf as their avatar, why is this not surprising?

Good point, bud. I always love it when people can't come up with an intelligent rebuttal and have to resort to "hurr durr Canadian flag, can't possibly be right!" A sure sign that the points I made are on the mark and struck an emotional nerve.

Funny thing is that if I was claiming NCAA>CHL you'd probably have no problem with the fact it also says my location is California, or that I'm a US citizen.

 

[Semantics]

McDavid has only ever played on stacked teams. Let's see how he does on the Oilers

Eichel plays with scrubs and makes them better.

Good points in favor of Eichel. I guess you aren't as biased as I thought.

You seem to have missed the point. Unless Buffalo has no intention of improving their roster, playing with scrubs does not seem like the best preparation for the NHL. In the NHL nearly all the players are more talented than what Eichel played with/against. Eichel is better prepared for the NHL from a physical standpoint, but McDavid is better prepared from a mental standpoint.

 

[The Exiled One]

Eichel mostly plays with a bunch of scrubs who will never make the NHL.

Since we don't have a time machine to travel to the future and prove how ridiculous this statement is, let's take a look back at a #3 pick from the NCAA (Toews) compared to a #2 pick from the OHL (Staal) with regard to quality of their teammates:

'05-'06 North Dakota
2,251 NHL games played
1,076 NHL points

'05-'06 Peterborough
949 NHL games played
269 NHL points

Keep in mind, these are the points of their teammates only, not including Toews or Staal. Erik Johnson went #1 in 2006 then played a season at Minnesota. Care to know how many future NHL'ers were on that roster? Did it never cross your mind that NHL level talent tends to cluster on just a handful of NCAA rosters?

And, even with all that talent, teams with very few NHL level players can be very competitive because they are A) Older, B) Stronger, and C) Make more mature hockey plays. That's why NCAA hockey is a higher level of hockey than the CHL, which should NOT be read as being a better developmental league. It's just better hockey for the reasons I mentioned above.

 

[Semantics]

Saying that the level of competition in a league is higher is not the same as saying that the league is a better development league. Those are two different things.

Agreed, but a number of people on this board have been making the inference that NCAA having better teams somehow makes Eichel as good a prospect as McDavid, even though scouts unanimously have the latter ahead. If it was really as close as some here are saying, there would be disagreement among scouts/GMs, but you can't even find that in the media these days despite there being plenty of columnists and talk show hosts who love to play devil's advocate. The only disagreement at this point comes from delusional fans.

There are pros and cons from a development point of view with every league whether NCAA, CHL, or European leagues. At the end of the day I don't think there's a huge difference in the end outcome, as no matter what the player will adapt to the NHL. But I do believe that to some extent it will mold a player's tendencies a bit.

When McDavid was drafted by the Otters it had just finished dead last in the OHL. His first season on it, it was the second worst team in the OHL. McDavid is one of the main reasons the team improved.

I'm not saying McDavid came to a good team, or isn't the main reason the Otters are good. I'm saying he's played with and against players who are more than future grinders.

 

[The Exiled One]

I'm saying he's played with and against players who are more than future grinders.

Same response:

Since we don't have a time machine to travel to the future and prove how ridiculous this statement is, let's take a look back at a #3 pick from the NCAA (Toews) compared to a #2 pick from the OHL (Staal) with regard to quality of their teammates:

'05-'06 North Dakota
2,251 NHL games played
1,076 NHL points

'05-'06 Peterborough
949 NHL games played
269 NHL points

Keep in mind, these are the points of their teammates only, not including Toews or Staal. Erik Johnson went #1 in 2006 then played a season at Minnesota. Care to know how many future NHL'ers were on that roster? Did it never cross your mind that NHL level talent tends to cluster on just a handful of NCAA rosters?

And, even with all that talent, teams with very few NHL level players can be very competitive because they are A) Older, B) Stronger, and C) Make more mature hockey plays. That's why NCAA hockey is a higher level of hockey than the CHL, which should NOT be read as being a better developmental league. It's just better hockey for the reasons I mentioned above.

 

[Semantics]

Lol, so the NCAA is full of scrubs who will never make the NHL, but the NLA...isn't?

No, the NLA is full of talented players who will never make the NHL. Because of the big ice, the fact it's comprised of two decades' worth of draft cohorts, and players from all over the world, the talent pool is much much larger than that of the NCAA. So the level of skill is much higher than the NCAA. In a sense it's the best of both worlds, high end skill like the CHL and physically mature players like the NCAA.

Really hope he goes this route so we can see how it plays out. If he does I see him competing with McDavid for the next 20 years.

 

[Kshahdoo]

The Eichel homers just love to harp on this false notion that having slightly more physically mature players somehow makes the NCAA a better development league than the CHL. Which is clearly not true when you look at the results -- elite players have come out of both systems, but arguably disproportionately more high end talent has come from the CHL and its predecessors, including some of the best American players like Lafontaine, Kane, Modano, as well as generational talents like Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid.

Fact of the matter is that the CHL has more exceptional talent by simple virtue of the fact players start there two younger usually. Superstars like Eichel typically only play a single year in the NCAA, maybe two in some cases (Toews), or if they have an early birthday will be drafted straight out of the NTDP. Connor McDavid has played in the CHL for three years, and at the low end you have Stamkos playing two, but pretty much every star player plays at least that many.

Eichel mostly plays with a bunch of scrubs who will never make the NHL. McDavid plays with Strome, who will be one of the top picks in this draft, and DeBrincat who is looking like a high pick in 2016. Eichel is getting experience playing with a bunch of low skilled grinders, while McDavid is getting experience playing with creative players who can think the game at a similar level to guys like Hall and Eberle who he'll be playing with in the NHL. *That* is why the CHL is a superior development league -- it emphasizes hockey IQ while the NCAA emphasizes physical skills.

Smart move by Matthews if he bypasses the NCAA and/or the CHL in favor of playing with more talented players. It will be better for his development. I think he's going to be significantly better than Eichel, maybe as good as McDavid.

By this logic CHL is better than KHL as well, because more CHLers play in the NHL, than KHLers.

 

[Semantics]

Since we don't have a time machine to travel to the future and prove how ridiculous this statement is, let's take a look back at a #3 pick from the NCAA (Toews) compared to a #2 pick from the OHL (Staal) with regard to quality of their teammates:

'05-'06 North Dakota
2,251 NHL games played
1,076 NHL points

'05-'06 Peterborough
949 NHL games played
269 NHL points

Keep in mind, these are the points of their teammates only, not including Toews or Staal. Erik Johnson went #1 in 2006 then played a season at Minnesota. Care to know how many future NHL'ers were on that roster? Did it never cross your mind that NHL level talent tends to cluster on just a handful of NCAA rosters?

And, even with all that talent, teams with very few NHL level players can be very competitive because they are A) Older, B) Stronger, and C) Make more mature hockey plays. That's why NCAA hockey is a higher level of hockey than the CHL, which should NOT be read as being a better developmental league. It's just better hockey for the reasons I mentioned above.

What does this have to do with Jack Eichel's team? The goalie might be the only other player from that team who ever makes the NHL. You literally cherry picked one of the best NCAA teams ever to support your argument.

How about the NON-CHERRY PICKED stat from Pacmat40 above?

Well 17 of the top 30 in scoring this year played in the CHL, 2 played in the NCAA.

This completely OBLITERATES your argument!

 

[phillipsj89]

Here we go again . . .

And yes the level of competition is higher in the NCAA than the CHL. Players are faster and stronger because of their age advantage. Defense is much better. And goaltenders are far more developed.

The overwhelming majority of people in hockey hold the same opinion. The small minority who are in disagreement are either complete Canadian homers or are ignorant to the level of play in the NCAA.

I agree, whole heartedly, and I'm a big CHL fanboy.

For some reason, everyone in the keeper pool i'm in, say that the CHL is by far better than the NCAA, IMO they are way out to lunch.

 

[WaltWhitman]

No, the NLA is full of talented players who will never make the NHL. Because of the big ice, the fact it's comprised of two decades' worth of draft cohorts, and players from all over the world, the talent pool is much much larger than that of the NCAA. So the level of skill is much higher than the NCAA. In a sense it's the best of both worlds, high end skill like the CHL and physically mature players like the NCAA.

Really hope he goes this route so we can see how it plays out. If he does I see him competing with McDavid for the next 20 years.

NLA is the best of both worlds, so he will probably be better than McDavid.

 

[The Exiled One]

What does this have to do with Jack Eichel's team? The goalie might be the only other player from that team who ever makes the NHL.

Your "scrubs" statement is simply an opinion at this point. I'm trying to show you that only history will prove you right or wrong.

You literally cherry picked one of the best NCAA teams ever to support your argument.

I figuratively cherry picked the most highly correlative example of a high draft pick who had already played a year of NCAA hockey. I then went on to show how Erik Johnson played on a similarly talented team the year after with Goligoski, Wheeler, Okposo. Then, you completely glossed over my point about how NHL talent tends to gravitate to a handful of NCAA teams.

In regard to Matthews, he could choose to play on a team with Kyle Connor and Zach Werenski next season. Or, he could choose to play on a team with Nick/Jordan Schmaltz and Brock Boeser. Or, he could play on a team with Alex Tuch, Colin White, Michael Matheson, Noah Hanafin, Thatcher Demko, and Ian McCoshan. What I'm saying is, feel free to express your opinion that this year's BU squad a bunch of scrubs plus Eichel, but don't tell me that Matthews would be surrounded by scrubs if he went the NCAA route. He most certainly would not. The talent depth on the top NCAA rosters is far superior to the talent of top CHL teams BECAUSE stars like Matthews get to CHOOSE where to play.

BU's stars weren't as plentiful last season, but North Dakota, Boston College, Michigan, and Minnesota are never lacking in NHL talent. If a top prospect wants to surround himself with talent while going the NCAA route, he can easily do so.

 

[VictorLustig]

Very interested to see how this pans out. He's going to be playing in the (arguably) 3rd best league in the world, against men in his draft year. He'll also get paid handsomely to do so.

The only concern is if he doesn't perform to expectations and ends up being loaned to NLB OR if he is consistently scratched for other Imports as they are only allowed to dress 4 per game.

I'd say the SHL & Liiga are better leagues than the NLA. Not by a lot though.

 

[Zorkan]

I'd say the SHL & Liiga are better leagues than the NLA. Not by a lot though.

I agree. I do not think that the quality of the league itself would be solely relevant where to play Auston Matthews though. Thus, let's not start any pissing contest where none is required... ;-)

I think it would be quite an interesting challenge, both for Auston Matthews and for ZSC as the expectations on imports are huge. I would be very excited to see him play here for the season!

 

[hockeyr5]

What does this have to do with Jack Eichel's team? The goalie might be the only other player from that team who ever makes the NHL.

BU had a lot more talent then they got credit for.

Second Rounder: MacLeod
Third Rounders Grzelcyk and Hickey
Fourth Rounders: Piccinich
Fifth Rounders O'Regan, Baillargeon, and Somerby

And AJ Greer is ranked as the 69th best skater by Central Scouting this year. Evan Rodrigues and O'Connor have both been signed already.

 

[ChiGuySez]

If Matthews goes pro in Europe, is he still draft eligible or does he become a FA?

 

[Minty Cowboy]

If Matthews goes pro in Europe, is he still draft eligible or does he become a FA?

Still draft eligible like other top Euro prospects. IE last year Nylander played pro

 

[Juxtaposer]

BU had a lot more talent then they got credit for.

Second Rounder: MacLeod
Third Rounders Grzelcyk and Hickey
Fourth Rounders: Piccinich
Fifth Rounders O'Regan, Baillargeon, and Somerby

And AJ Greer is ranked as the 69th best skater by Central Scouting this year. Evan Rodrigues and O'Connor have both been signed already.

I like Hickey a lot and O'Regan is talented, but really, that is not proving your point.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Interesting move by him. Still the exception to the rule. Have to imagine that if playing in Europe is a lot better then playing in the CHL/NCAA then more players would be doing it. Is the coaching, staffing, pay, etc. that much better in Europe to go overseas and risk failing?

 

[Semantics]

By this logic CHL is better than KHL as well, because more CHLers play in the NHL, than KHLers.

No. We were comparing the NCAA and CHL, that claim was relative to those two leagues. The KHL is a completely different beast.

 

[Mit Yarrum]

Eichel is better prepared for the NHL from a physical standpoint, but McDavid is better prepared from a mental standpoint.

Aaaand, you just went off the rails.

 

[Semantics]

I figuratively cherry picked the most highly correlative example of a high draft pick who had already played a year of NCAA hockey. I then went on to show how Erik Johnson played on a similarly talented team the year after with Goligoski, Wheeler, Okposo. Then, you completely glossed over my point about how NHL talent tends to gravitate to a handful of NCAA teams.

And in doing so you literally picked one of the most talented teams, which isn't comparable to Eichel's team. And probably wouldn't be comparable to Matthews' team. Most NHL players out of the NCAA do not play on such a stacked team, and even then none of those teams have the caliber of raw talent Erie does. McDavid-Strome-DeBrincat. That's potentially three top 5 talents on the same team (DeBrincat probably will go lower due to his size, but he was a 1.5 ppg player *without* McDavid as a 16 year old, 4-5 more inches is all that separates him from being in the #1 overall conversation with Matthews). How's that for literally cherry picking a CHL team.

In regard to Matthews, he could choose to play on a team with Kyle Connor and Zach Werenski next season. Or, he could choose to play on a team with Nick/Jordan Schmaltz and Brock Boeser. Or, he could play on a team with Alex Tuch, Colin White, Michael Matheson, Noah Hanafin, Thatcher Demko, and Ian McCoshan.

Sorry but Werenski and Hanifin will be in the NHL.

 

[wings5]

And in doing so you literally picked one of the most talented teams, which isn't comparable to Eichel's team. And probably wouldn't be comparable to Matthews' team. Most NHL players out of the NCAA do not play on such a stacked team, and even then none of those teams have the caliber of raw talent Erie does. McDavid-Strome-DeBrincat. That's potentially three top 5 talents on the same team (DeBrincat probably will go lower due to his size, but he was a 1.5 ppg player *without* McDavid as a 16 year old, 4-5 more inches is all that separates him from being in the #1 overall conversation with Matthews). How's that for literally cherry picking a CHL team.



Sorry but Werenski and Hanifin will be in the NHL.

Matheson left BC as well, played AHL games at the end of his season. Also I wouldn't say it's for certain the two defenseman will leave. Hanifin is 50/50 and depending on the team maybe more close to 40 % chance he sticks. Werenski has even less of a chance as he can still benefit from another year dominating and gaining experience.

 

[ozzie]

A big part of his decision would have to be his age and the fact that he missed the NHL draft by 2 days.

He most likely would be drafted 3rd overall, but you will find some scouts who feel he is as good as a prospect as Eichel, if not slightly better.

2 days older and maybe he would have played in the NCAA this year and challenged Eichel for that 2nd spot.

Matthews is basically at the point in his development where most "elite" prospects would be in the draft and about to spend their summer preparing for the NHL.

Look at a guy like Drouin, he was sent back to the Q, for his 18/19 year old season, 1 year after being drafted. He dominated that league, did he learn much? would he have been better to go to the AHL? of course he would have benefited from the AHL.

Matthews would also benefit from playing in the AHL right now, but he can't and there is no other option like the old IHL.

The CHL probably doesn't offer him much for potentially a year where most players are spending their 3rd year in the CHL. I would argue the NCAA at this point in his career would have helped him more then the CHL, with the amount of time in the gym etc.

2 days older and he probably does what Kane did, spend 1 year in the CHL, unless he really hates the WHL and the team that olds his drafting rites.

Swiss league is interesting, larger ice etc. But NHL coach and better hockey then the CHL or NCAA has to offer.