C Auston Matthews (2016, 1st, TOR) VII

[Liminality]

I'd rather this didn't turn into another Laine vs Matthews circus. Let's just accept that both players played well for their situations.

I think Matthews style of play is perfect for a center and should translate well into his first season. I'm sure it won't take long for the Matthews-Nylander line to get Babcock's trust for offensive situations.

 

[Cotton]

So a "good player" outplayed a "great player" and won tournament MVP in both their first taste in NHLish waters? Like I said....I'll reserve my opinion till I get a bigger glimpse of them with the big boys. Don't wanna look like a fool.

Laine didn't do anything close to outplay him, Matthews out played him head-to-head and put up the better performance against the better teams while playing the more difficult position. What Laine did was score against the weak teams and that's about it, even in the game vs Canada that Finns say he was great in he actually sucked and was a turnover machine and getting stripped left and right, no look backhand pass out of the zone on the PP ect.

Nope, I just said that Most people from Winnipeg would have picked Laine over Matthews. You're the one who just called us fools. Its ok though. We're not as sensitive over here in the Prairies. The cold has numbed it out of us

Cool story, after the lotto Jets fans ran a poll on their boards asking who they'd rather have, Matthews won, and it wasn't close. There are even YouTube Jets fans reactions to loosing out on Auston even though they won a top two pick.

I'd say by the mere fact your in here with an agenda speaks to your thin skin sensitivities.

Laine certainly wasn't one of them? Huh

WHC MVP
WHC Best forward
WHC All-Star team
WHC TOP 3 player on team
10gp 7+5 = 12

vs

WHC TOP 3 player on team
10gp 6+3 = 9

Well i guess you are entitled on an opinion eventho it is clearly a wrong one.

One player, who played on a better team with better linemates outscored another player, marginally, by pilling up points against weak competition. The other players outplayed him head-to-head and upped his game vs the better teams while playing a complete game in the more difficult position, on the worse team, resulting in a 3pts difference.

His WHC "awards" were a joke, they didn't just screw up with Laine in that either.

 

[Cotton]

Listen, 95% of the people posting here (or any other thread where there's a debate going) have seen just maybe one but probably neither of Laine or Matthews play a single european game.

This is like the time people laughed at Barkov being picked 2nd overall ahead of Jones and Drouin without ever having seen him play and well today...

Either way whoever is better is debatable, whoever says "x is better AINEC" argue with emotion and don't even watch both play.

If I was to vote I'd likely pick Laine due to his clutch but unlike anyone else here I'm willing to admit I'm prone to being biased about that (nobody's objective)

Nah, AINEC is apt.

Maybe people should realize this is a Matthews thread and keep all Laine related content in the Laine threads?

 

[BB88]

It's so predictable how the Laine thread is about Laine but the Matthews thread becomes a pissing contest between the two.

I apologize I have to do something I didn't want, post in a Matthews thread but this is just false, Laine threads have been full of Matthews-Laine "fights" and have seen quite many interesting posts there.

Toronto made the right pick, Matthews fills a need, but this isn't a very good vs great player situation, this is elite vs elite.
Laine has the potential to be the top goal scorer, best winger in the NHL and Matthews one of the best C's in the game.

Laine isn't also one dimensional, he doesn't just have his shot which would be known if some would watch him actually play.

 

[4thline]

It's so predictable how the Laine thread is about Laine but the Matthews thread becomes a pissing contest between the two.

It's because despite how awesome he is Matthews really is a boring discussion topic . Plays a complete game, skill is extremely high level, no real question/black marks, is highly likely to effectively translate etc.

Not really much to talk about haha

 

[WTFMAN99]

It's because despite how awesome he is Matthews really is a boring discussion topic . Plays a complete game, skill is extremely high level, no real question/black marks, is highly likely to effectively translate etc.

Not really much to talk about haha

His play kind of does the talking. Tavares and Crosby are incredibly dull interviews but you know what you're getting every night.

E.Kane gives you plenty to talk about but not in a good way...happy to have Matthews. Very level headed and mature kid.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

All the major scouting services, outside of two that are known for putting together weird lists, had Matthews ahead of Laine.

But he's just talking about who played better in that tournament, though. So this isn't really relevant.

 

[supermann_98]

Can the Finnish and winnipeg fans keep their Laine love in the Laine thread please?

Seriously, I'm tempted to spam the Laine thread and ask if he's learned to skate better than Jason Allison yet.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

And yet almost 90% of PROFESSIONAL scouting services had Matthews ranked as a better player with a better future than Laine

Almost like one like 2 week tournament isn't very meaningful

This!!!!!

Haven't seen any of "the Finnish five" posters even try to argue facts like this

 

[ijuka]

Can the Finnish and winnipeg fans keep their Laine love in the Laine thread please?

Seriously, I'm tempted to spam the Laine thread and ask if he's learned to skate better than Jason Allison yet.

"So can someone explain why Matthews is looked at as less offensively gifted than Laine? I even believe Matthews has just as good of a shot. I feel like Laine is so good that some people try and prop him up so he doesn't get under rated, and therefore people will say "His shot is the best".

Look at these highlights from the two. While Laine seems to be more inclined to find open ice in the slot and shoot (He'll need a setup guy with him and I'm not sure how well this will work in the NHL), Matthews is hounding the puck, making the plays himself.

One seems to be a complimentary piece, the other a driving player.

-vid-

-vid-

Their shots are really really similar, and Matthews brings so much more. I don't understand how there has been such a debate."

This is the original post.

You know, if you guys don't want Laine to be talked about in this thread, it might be a good idea to not ask questions about Laine.

 

[Atomos2]

It's because despite how awesome he is Matthews really is a boring discussion topic . Plays a complete game, skill is extremely high level, no real question/black marks, is highly likely to effectively translate etc.

Not really much to talk about haha

It seems like the only time this thread's traffic gets picked up is when a Laine follower comes in to stir things up. Laine has a bunch of question marks that can be picked apart while Matthews is basically a shoe in to translate positively to the NHL.

 

[goblin3]

One player, who played on a better team with better linemates outscored another player, marginally, by pilling up points against weak competition. The other players outplayed him head-to-head and upped his game vs the better teams while playing a complete game in the more difficult position, on the worse team, resulting in a 3pts difference.

Sure, but the other player also played on the wrong wing with quite minimal ice time. Other players played against the weak teams too.

Nah, AINEC is apt.

His WHC "awards" were a joke, they didn't just screw up with Laine in that either.

Some people also call selke or *insert award* or whatever a joke but it's not really true nor good argumenting.

 

[Gsus]

Don't take this the wrong way, you're one of the more reasonable pro-Laine guys in these threads, but don't you see how hilarious that statement is?

Despite a large amount of fan and professional opinion that Matthews was as good or better in the tournament the gospel counter is "herpy derp look at da points". When it's pointed out that Laine did **** all against the good teams it's "don't look at the points, he still played well."

No, I don't. Just watch his highlights against Canada for example and tell me he did **** against them. What you are saying, is that if you don't get points you played like ****. That's ridiculous.

To be fair your statement, is way more ridiculous than mine. I'm not here to praise Laine, but I'm correcting your posts. You are basically saying that he was bad because he did not get points in there. Or you could be implying, that you didn't actually watch any of those games. You can tell me which one is it, because either way, it looks ridiculous.

Even a blind chicken could see that he was great against team Canada in the first game for example, the final not so much.

Here's one of his ****** performances:

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Laine certainly wasn't one of them? Huh

WHC MVP
WHC Best forward
WHC All-Star team
WHC TOP 3 player on team
10gp 7+5 = 12

vs

WHC TOP 3 player on team
10gp 6+3 = 9

Well i guess you are entitled on an opinion eventho it is clearly a wrong one.

I didn't say that you had to think Matthews was better. I don't know why all the insecurity, that little statement brought such a reaction?
My opinion was made before awards were handed out so....I don't know what you expect. That to me would be stupid watch something and then change my perception of it because some guys a world away said they think Laine was the MVP.

 

[WTFMAN99]

No, I don't. Just watch his highlights against Canada for example and tell me he did **** against them. What you are saying, is that if you don't get points you played like ****. That's ridiculous.

To be fair your statement, is way more ridiculous than mine. I'm not here to praise Laine, but I'm correcting your posts. You are basically saying that he was bad because he did not get points in there. Or you could be implying, that you didn't actually watch any of those games. You can tell me which one is it, because either way, it looks ridiculous.

Even a blind chicken could see that he was great against team Canada in the first game for example, the final not so much.

Here's one of his ****** performances:

Don't want to hear about Laine in the Matthews thread. It's been done to death around the WC time.

 

[Auston Marlander]

No, I don't. Just watch his highlights against Canada for example and tell me he did **** against them. What you are saying, is that if you don't get points you played like ****. That's ridiculous.

To be fair your statement, is way more ridiculous than mine. I'm not here to praise Laine, but I'm correcting your posts. You are basically saying that he was bad because he did not get points in there. Or you could be implying, that you didn't actually watch any of those games. You can tell me which one is it, because either way, it looks ridiculous.

Even a blind chicken could see that he was great against team Canada in the first game for example, the final not so much.

Here's one of his ****** performances:

But I have been told time and time again Laine is the greatest goal scorer to ever live. That is what makes him so great and we should look at his points to show how great he is.

A 2 minute clip doesn't tell the story about all the misplays. Cherry picking pieces to make a slightly inferior player look better does nothing to convince anyone. very few outside of Finland or Winnipeg agree with you. I wonder why that is.

 

[Atomos2]

No, I don't. Just watch his highlights against Canada for example and tell me he did **** against them. What you are saying, is that if you don't get points you played like ****. That's ridiculous.

To be fair your statement, is way more ridiculous than mine. I'm not here to praise Laine, but I'm correcting your posts. You are basically saying that he was bad because he did not get points in there. Or you could be implying, that you didn't actually watch any of those games. You can tell me which one is it, because either way, it looks ridiculous.

Even a blind chicken could see that he was great against team Canada in the first game for example, the final not so much.

Here's one of his ****** performances:

You know where this highlight video belongs?

In a Laine thread!

 

[Gsus]

But I have been told time and time again Laine is the greatest goal scorer to ever live. That is what makes him so great and we should look at his points to show how great he is.

A 2 minute clip doesn't tell the story about all the misplays. Cherry picking pieces to make a slightly inferior player look better does nothing to convince anyone. very few outside of Finland or Winnipeg agree with you. I wonder why that is.

At least Ray Ferraro does agree with me. He thought Laine played his best game in the preliminary round against Canada.

I have to exit now. This is insane. You guys.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Let's keep this on topic. I can go to...the Mark Jankowski thread and it's about him, there is no comparisons etc. It's on topic about the player in question in the thread for the most part.

 

[ObscureAlien]

Can the Finnish and winnipeg fans keep their Laine love in the Laine thread please?

Seriously, I'm tempted to spam the Laine thread and ask if he's learned to skate better than Jason Allison yet.

It seems like the only time this thread's traffic gets picked up is when a Laine follower comes in to stir things up. Laine has a bunch of question marks that can be picked apart while Matthews is basically a shoe in to translate positively to the NHL.

It was a Leafs fan who started this. See below:

So can someone explain why Matthews is looked at as less offensively gifted than Laine? I even believe Matthews has just as good of a shot. I feel like Laine is so good that some people try and prop him up so he doesn't get under rated, and therefore people will say "His shot is the best".

Look at these highlights from the two. While Laine seems to be more inclined to find open ice in the slot and shoot (He'll need a setup guy with him and I'm not sure how well this will work in the NHL), Matthews is hounding the puck, making the plays himself.

One seems to be a complimentary piece, the other a driving player.





Their shots are really really similar, and Matthews brings so much more. I don't understand how there has been such a debate.

 

[4thline]

No, I don't. Just watch his highlights against Canada for example and tell me he did **** against them. What you are saying, is that if you don't get points you played like ****. That's ridiculous.

I watched the entire tournament.

The clear context of that post is statistical performance. I'll simplify.

12 points in the tournament can't be held as proof of a superior tournament performance if 1 point in 4 games against good competition can be discarded with "but he still played well."

There's way more to evaluating a performance than points, especially in a small tournament with wildly inconsistent levels of competition. IMO Matthews was the most impressive draft eligible player in the tournie despite having less points.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

I thought Matthews was the better player at the WCs. Scored timely goals for the far weaker US team, but it was also obvious he's got more dimensions to his game. Leafs didn't pick him solely due to him being a centre, they picked him because he was the BPA.

Both are one of the best talents their respective countries has ever produced, but I don't think this will be much of a debate come December/January.

 

[ItchyScratchy77]

I didn't think that was the case. IMO Matthews didn't get outplayed by many people in that tournament. And Laine certainly wasn't one of them. But it's subjective and you have a right to your opinion.

Not just my opinion. The professionals who chose the WHC MVP gave Laine the title. But I suppose their opinion is subjective also

 

[Gsus]

I watched the entire tournament.

The clear context of that post is statistical performance. I'll simplify.

12 points in the tournament can't be held as proof of a superior tournament performance if 1 point in 4 games against good competition can be discarded with "but he still played well."

There's way more to evaluating a performance than points, especially in a small tournament with wildly inconsistent levels of competition. IMO Matthews was the most impressive draft eligible player in the tournie despite having less points.

I appreciate you calling me one of the most reasonable pro-Laine guys, but I hope you understand my reason to comment here.

You said that Laine played like **** against top countries, I really hope you take that back or consider if that's really the case. And that's why I had to take time for two or some posts more. I posted the highlights of his best preliminary round game (according to Ray Ferraro) here, and got basically flaming, homer crap and a gentle gtfo's as a response.

I could agree on (your?) post saying that Laine had two different tournaments, even tho some could disagree.

Then you took it to "he played like crap" level, which is something I can't get my head around.

I wish Matthews has a great career in Toronto along side with Uncle Leo. Sometimes it's hard to do when you see posts like I just saw. I haven't said a bad word of Matthews in HFBoards and you people seem to have really easy time to call a great performance of PL as a **** one. I hope that even a tiny bit of objectivity in this moment rises (in general) and you understand what I mean by posting my last message in this thread.

I could end this with the "they both will be awesome players and we should just be happy to have guys like that coming into the league" crap, but I won't because I don't want anyone even sligthly to lick my ass. I just wan't people to be objective in here, and I don't think today was a good start. Is all.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Matthews fan takes a jab at Laine, nobody has a problem with it until someone retaliates/debates it and suddenly it's a problem

In all fairness it's off-season so there's going to be some boredom going on, but this debate isn't going to end just because someone emotionally "AINEC"s the other or says "facts" so it's better if a mod would disallow the threads from blowing up like this incase there's some useful information being put by people who actually watch games