Complete misunderstanding bro. When I said "did **** all" I meant in a statistical sense. IMO he didn't play any worse in those games, and that level is absolutely fantastic for a 17 year old, but was less impressive than the guy who's name is on the thread.
C Auston Matthews (2016, 1st, TOR) VII
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Complete misunderstanding bro. When I said "did **** all" I meant in a statistical sense. IMO he didn't play any worse in those games, and that level is absolutely fantastic for a 17 year old, but was less impressive than the guy who's name is on the thread.
I'll quote a certain forum poster with his manually collected, relatively subjective stats. For saving space I'll have just the first line. Code is something like: "goals+points+scoring attempts+generated chances+blocking goaltender's vision/net front play+other good play+quality chance bonus"
"Vs Canada in groups:
LW Jokinen, 0+0+1+1+0+0+0 = 2
C Barkov, 0+0+2+2+0+1+3 = 8
RW Laine, 0+0+5+2+0+1+3 = 11
Vs Canada in GF:
LW Jokinen, 0+0+1+0+0+0+0 = 1
C Barkov 0+0+0+4+0+0+0 = 4
RW Laine 0+0+3+1+0+1+2 = 7"
Personally, I really like these stats although they have to be taken with a grain of salt due to how they are subjective in nature. It'd be interesting to see someone compile similar stats for Matthews in some of his games. I've already done some puck action stats for him but I probably should also begin doing these as it gives you a much more interesting overall view. I'd be especially curious about some statistics including the time when Vatrano was on his line as even though Vatrano had a couple of really good assists, good shot statistics, clearly the highest +/- on his team and a very solid point total, he received some serious criticism.
For the record, the weak link of this line in these games is pretty easy to recognize and doesn't come as a surprise to anyone who watched the games.
What kind of minutes is Matthews expected to play when the season begins? If he's given nr.1 center minutes from the beginning I'd say he will struggle, similar to the scenario Barkov was in his first year.
Obviously the overall level of competitiveness in NLA is next to nothing compared to NHL so I think his success is determined pretty heavily on how much he has to play against other teams top lines.
Obviously the overall level of competitiveness in NLA is next to nothing compared to NHL so I think his success is determined pretty heavily on how much he has to play against other teams top lines.
All signs point to the Leafs having a 3 line top 9 this season rather than a true 1-2-3.
It's looking like Matthews will probably start on an "Offence 2" With Kadri sheltering him as "Matchup" and Bozak as "Offence 1"
WTFMAN99
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Pretty much covered here, we basically heard from Babcock that he could see Nylander playing RW for Matthews on a 3rd line but if the line was "on" that night they might get more minutes but overall you could see a fairly balanced ice time distribution in the Leafs top 9 this season, maybe some variances if a line struggles on a particular night.
Arizona you can make a strong case for. I'd personally put them above Philly.
Liminality
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He'll be starting in what's presumed to be a sheltered role under Babcock to start off but who knows how long that'll last. This is also speculation from me but Babcock might even pull the Rielly strategy on him and have him take a lot of defensive responsibilities for most of the season to make sure he's playing the game the right way. To be honest it would be nice to see Matthews grab the Calder but the most important thing is his development. If that means he's pushed down the depth chart on purpose to make him focus on something other than scoring that so be it.
WTFMAN99
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I don't think they'll try to smother his offensive capabilities. Hunwick was a handicap for Rielly this year.
Liminality
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I'm thinking more along the lines of the time after the Phaneuf trade, Babcock just let Rielly do his thing on the first pair. Maybe that happens again where Matthews starts on the 3rd line and Bozak gets traded at the trade deadline. Matthews does his thing on the "top" line and hopefully the rest would become history.
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Well Babcock sheltering Matthews on the third line pins Matthews against lesser competition to ease into the NHL - where he should do fairly well offensive. Granted the minutes could be limited too. More minutes could mean more product if Bozak is traded but he'd have to do it against tougher competition.
Leafidelity
Existentially Drifting
I can honestly say that after winning the lottery, drafting Laine didn't cross my mind once. We won the lottery and got the big prize. Can't wait for the rest of the NHL to see how special this guy is. Life is good. 
It's the opposite. People didn't laugh at Barkov because he was taken before Jones. Barkov was taken that high BECAUSE he was a big skilled centre.
You don't pass up on the best player in the draft who just happens to be a big centre.
How do these damn threads keep turning into a Matthews vs Laine? This thread isn't about Laine.
Both teams are more than happy with their pick.
WTFMAN99
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I just see Matthews doing well off the hop, we're not trying to transform him into a shut down centre. He'll get favourable match ups to start I am sure that he can take advantage of and I see more responsibility coming his way as the season goes on if he earns which he should.
I think 50 points is a reasonable expectation this year with some better then average 2-way play from the kid.
Expect a much longer learning curve while Babcock forces him to play sound two way hockey instead of letting him run wild.
UsernameWasTaken
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Eichel ended up with 56 points - I'm not sure how the situations will compare (i.e. Eichel's last season vs Matthews' this season). But Eichel also got off to a slow start. So I'd think that 50 at least should be pretty easily within Matthews' reach.
We have to see usage before we make a strong judgment. Eichel was given 1st line center minutes regardless of his struggles. Very few rookie centers get 19 minutes a game, particularly with little time on the PK (.23 a game). Guys like Stamkos and Tavares both had better P/60 and ES P/60 than Eichel, but lower point totals. I personally think Babcock is unlikely to give Matthews that long a leash to start.
WTFMAN99
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Who was Eichel with last year? Was it Kane-Eichel-Reinhart?
Not sure who is on Matthews LW, we know Nylander gets first crack at the RW.
I think Eichel got 2C minutes, I think ROR got tough match ups and more minutes but maybe I am wrong.
Eichel was top 30 in the league in minutes among centers. ROR was first, Blysma played his top two lines more than any other team. The difference in minutes is primarily due to PK minutes. Eichel got about .40 seconds less at ES and .08 on the PP. Eichel's usage is similar to most 1st line centers.
http://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats?...sort=8&time=0&pos=1&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0
Edit: Eichel was also terrible with Kane if you look at 5 on 5 With or With-out stats. Here is a breakdown of Eichel with linemates. He played the most with those two, but also played a significant with Girgensons and McGinn.
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1292&withagainst=true&season=2015-16&sit=5v5
Here is a more detailed breakdown of actual lines
http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-combinations/?player1=Jack+Eichel&flag=y
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WTFMAN99
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Sounds right, if I remember right Girgensons was kind of cheesed about playing wing but Larsson was only good at centre pretty much. They had decent top end talent but lacked depth.
Buffalo will have forward depth coming in short order, probably just need a top pairing LHD...and we need a top pairing RHD...
UsernameWasTaken
Let's Go Hawks!
I don't independently remember the break down at all - that's why I was hedging a bit with my comment re their respective situations. But Eichel also got off to a slow start. I think it will benefit Matthews to be starting the season coming off the WC.
Even if Eichel's rookie situation ends up being more advantageous than Matthews', it's still hard for me to envision Matthews having much trouble hitting 50 pts...I mean, Bozak and/or Kadri should be able to handle the harder match ups than Matthews ought to be expected to...and I assume Matthews will be PP time... He also doesn't have the type of glaring deficiencies (skating, strength, or defense) that typically cause very young players to struggle.
Stamkos started off with a really bad coaching situation - and picked up fast after the coaching change. Stamkos was also playing as U19 player (I don't think he was, as a rookie, ahead of where Matthews is now). Tavares was hampered at the time by his skating...as with Stamkos, I suspect Matthews is ahead of where Tavares was at the time b/c of skating alone...but honestly my first hand memories of their rookie seasons is vague at best.
Of course, it's true that there might be situational issues that cause Matthews to have lower point totals...but I still think that 50 pts shouldn't be that much of a problem. If he doesn't get there, then I suspect it will be situational/usage (I'm not proclaiming 50 pts should be "easy" as some sort of "set up" so I can criticize him later or anything).
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I just want to see what Babcock does minutes wise before making firm guesses. I do think if he gets more than 17 minutes a game with 1pp he should be able to hit 50 pts. If Babs starts him slow with 15 minutes a game it will be a bit of a challenge. I personally think to start on the road the Matthews-Nylander line (if they stick with that) will be our 3rd line, whereas at home where he can dictate match-ups they will be used as a 1B line.
Eichel had 1175min of total ice time and played at least 98 minutes with 10 other forwards. The most minutes he had with a forward was 409 with Kane, with whom he had some ridiculously poor goal stats(goals for per 60 1.32, goals against per 60 3.07).
One would hope that Babcock can figure out a smarter way to go about things.
One would hope that Babcock can figure out a smarter way to go about things.
DopeyFish
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Let's Go Hawks!
Yeah, fair enough. That goes without saying.
Assuming Matthews and Nylander start well, even if they're the Leafs' 3rd line, isn't Babcock the type who will spread ice time out (more so that a top 6/bottom 6 configuration)? Last season probably isn't the best indicator b/c of injuries, dearth of skill on the team.
Besides the fact he'll be starting the season coming of WC, I think having played pro last year in Switzerland will also help minimize the 'jump' Matthews is forced to make.
Think Babcock prefers a top 9 set up with a grinder on each line over a pure checking line, then a 4th line that serves as an energy line rather than 2 scoring lines and a shutdown line. My guess is Matthews finishes between 17 and 18 minutes a game. If we trade Bozak at the deadline (a realistic scenario) or suffer an injury to Bozak or Kadri he could end up getting minutes close to what most #1 centers get. My feeling is Kadri will work the all around shut-down line, Bozak will get a slightly balanced line (maybe with Marner and JVR) and Matthews/Nylander will get sheltered usage till at least mid-season where they tend to get more ice-time at home where match-ups can be controlled. It will be interesting, because we have never really seen how Babcock operates in this situation before.
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