C Auston Matthews (2016, 1st, TOR) VII

[King Mapes]

Generational is something I kind of reserve for Crosby/McDavid....and I'd probably stick Ovechkin in there too.

If Matthews proves he belongs in there too then great but imo he's likely in the "franchise centre" category versus generational, that is my 2 cents though.

Ya people confuse the two. Generational is for 1-2 guys per decade. Matthews can be an elite prospect but generational might be a stretch.

 

[Purity*]

I think Matthews slots in with Eichel, Malkin, Tavares in terms of draft day hype. He's a guy we knew about for a long time leading up to his draft, was challenged by a couple of guys who really popped up (Chychrun at one point, Laine/Puljujarvi at others) but never really lost the expectation that he would go first

Personally I think his upside hits that border on generational, like could be a top 5 player in the league his whole career...Jagr level maybe?

Both Hall and Seguin were considered to be real deal #1 picks in their year, franchise type guys, and I think if you put Matthews in that draft he goes #1....thoughts?

He goes 1st overall in every draft since 2010 except McDavid's.

 

[Randy Randerson]

He goes 1st overall in every draft since 2010 except McDavid's.

Ya thats fair...so I'm not sure if we think there's a level between "franchise" and "generational" but I think he's there. To me, the top ~30 players in the league should be considered franchise because they should be good enough to build a team around (not saying that every team has one, but some have 2). "Generational" I think should mean that there's at least an argument to be made that you were the best player in the world during your early 20's through early 30's. I think Matthews will be clearly behind McDavid, Crosby (in the time he has left) as "generational" guys, but may be elite among franchise players (if you agree that there should be about 30 guys who are good enough to build a team around), maybe a top 5 amongst that group if he really pans out

 

[BWDude]

I think Matthews slots in with Eichel, Malkin, Tavares in terms of draft day hype. He's a guy we knew about for a long time leading up to his draft, was challenged by a couple of guys who really popped up (Chychrun at one point, Laine/Puljujarvi at others) but never really lost the expectation that he would go first

Personally I think his upside hits that border on generational, like could be a top 5 player in the league his whole career...Jagr level maybe?

Both Hall and Seguin were considered to be real deal #1 picks in their year, franchise type guys, and I think if you put Matthews in that draft he goes #1....thoughts?

Jagr is borderline top 5 of all time, that would be out of this world- that would be lovely.

Border on generational is more like a Forsberg type or modern day Tavares/Malkin, and because of this yes he would probably go #1 in most drafts (just like Eichel) that didn't have a generational talent and contesting for the spot vs other borderline generationals ie: Tavares.

 

[pooleboy]

as a leaf fan, matthews is a "franchise" prospect not a "generational" prospect aka mcdavid....


however, he could become that generational talent, but he isn't touted as one as of today.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Jagr is borderline top 5 of all time, that would be out of this world- that would be lovely.

Border on generational is more like a Forsberg type or modern day Tavares/Malkin, and because of this yes he would probably go #1 in most drafts (just like Eichel) that didn't have a generational talent and contesting for the spot vs other borderline generationals ie: Tavares.

I guess Jagr came to mind because he was playing in an era where the top guys were clearly better, even if those top guys were in the conversation to be the best player of all time. But then again, that's sort of what the "generational" tag means to me...like Crosby and McDavid will likely fall in that category

I think Forsberg hits the Jagr level if he wasn't made of loosely packed stemware, Lindros may hit either level if he could have kept his head up

I think Eichel would be in the Tavares level, I know Tavares had the exceptional player status and super hyped as a 15 year old but there were always skating concerns, Eichel had that and size so I think he slots in similarly....which brings Matthews into the same conversation for me

 

[WTFMAN99]

He needs one more tool in his toolbox. Maybe a one timer. Doesn't need to be an Ovechkin style one timer, but something like Giroux would help him and that should be a relatively easy skill to learn with his frame and work ethic. He's got the skating, hands/puck skills, wrist shot and slapper down to great or elite levels already.

He's got a very powerful wrist shot and slap shot, and he's awesome along the boards, positionally sound and seems to be ahead of the curve on face-offs compared to most of his peers.

I think he actually has a lot more tools then you're giving him credit for. He's not a guy who can only score off the rush, he's great down low, has amazing hands in tight.

Same here. Franchise #1 centre that a team can potentially win a cup with.

I think that is accurate.

I think Matthews slots in with Eichel, Malkin, Tavares in terms of draft day hype. He's a guy we knew about for a long time leading up to his draft, was challenged by a couple of guys who really popped up (Chychrun at one point, Laine/Puljujarvi at others) but never really lost the expectation that he would go first

Personally I think his upside hits that border on generational, like could be a top 5 player in the league his whole career...Jagr level maybe?

Both Hall and Seguin were considered to be real deal #1 picks in their year, franchise type guys, and I think if you put Matthews in that draft he goes #1....thoughts?

Hard to say I don't want to try to rank people and create the chaos that comes with the "you think so and so is better then..." - I think Matthews does fit into the Stamkos/Tavares/Malkin/Hall/Seguin TIER.

Ya people confuse the two. Generational is for 1-2 guys per decade. Matthews can be an elite prospect but generational might be a stretch.

I'm a Leaf fan but i'll apply logic as best I can to any scenario. I don't think the generational tag is appropriate for Matthews.

He has a very real chance of being a franchise #1C though.

 

[Randy Randerson]

as a leaf fan, matthews is a "franchise" prospect not a "generational" prospect aka mcdavid....


however, he could become that generational talent, but he isn't touted as one as of today.

I think there should be a level in between - like to me Kopitar and Toews are franchise players, and I think Matthews draft day hype exceeds those guys (I know they often get brought up as comparables, but I think that's because they're good defensively, I think Matthews offensive upside is higher with similar defensive prowess)

I'm sure that I'm fanboying a little bit on him, but my opinion of him were the same before we won the lottery

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think there should be a level in between - like to me Kopitar and Toews are franchise players, and I think Matthews draft day hype exceeds those guys (I know they often get brought up as comparables, but I think that's because they're good defensively, I think Matthews offensive upside is higher with similar defensive prowess)

I'm sure that I'm fanboying a little bit on him, but my opinion of him were the same before we won the lottery

I see them as about the same (Toews/Kopitar/Matthews) but imo what separates them is that I think Matthews has a better shot and has a chance to have some higher goal totals.

I watch a ton of Blackhawk games (my #2 team and #1 West team) and catch enough Kings games to really love Kopitar, really good player but just my thoughts on seeing Matthews.

 

[BWDude]

I see them as about the same (Toews/Kopitar/Matthews) but imo what separates them is that I think Matthews has a better shot and has a chance to have some higher goal totals.

I watch a ton of Blackhawk games (my #2 team and #1 West team) and catch enough Kings games to really love Kopitar, really good player but just my thoughts on seeing Matthews.

Agree with everything you said but I personally find one player to be very reminiscent of Auston's playstyle and that is definitely Malkin. Remember that Malkin vs Oilers goal, compare that to the spin move Matthews did in camp. Very similar looking guys.

More offensive and big bodied power feel to their games then guys like Kopitar and Toews. A little weaker defensive end which is translated to being a bit better in the o-zone.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Agree with everything you said but I personally find one player to be very reminiscent of Auston's playstyle and that is definitely Malkin. Remember that Malkin vs Oilers goal, compare that to the spin move Matthews did in camp. Very similar looking guys.

More offensive and big bodied power feel to their games then guys like Kopitar and Toews. A little weaker defensive end which is translated to being a bit better in the o-zone.

He's hard to make a direct comparable...I mean I see pieces of his game being similar to other players but hard to just say "he's a total _____ clone"

He looks like an absolute PITA to get the puck off of. The potential is there to be special.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Agree with everything you said but I personally find one player to be very reminiscent of Auston's playstyle and that is definitely Malkin. Remember that Malkin vs Oilers goal, compare that to the spin move Matthews did in camp. Very similar looking guys.

More offensive and big bodied power feel to their games then guys like Kopitar and Toews. A little weaker defensive end which is translated to being a bit better in the o-zone.

He's hard to make a direct comparable...I mean I see pieces of his game being similar to other players but hard to just say "he's a total _____ clone"

He looks like an absolute PITA to get the puck off of. The potential is there to be special.

My personal pegging is Seguin/Malkin-level offense with Kopitar level defense as an absolute peak.

He looks much like Malkin with the puck to me, good hands and awareness, slick on the boards rather than Bullish like Toews/Kopitar. Probably not as fast as Geno, but I like his shot better as well

Definitely the first time since Sundin that I've felt like we have a player who is capable of being the best player on a good team. Never felt that way with Kessel, thought he was a great sidekick who ended up in the spotlight

I wonder if we have a rich mans Toews and poor mans Kane with Matthews+Marner

 

[Gavy]

The centre version of Rick Nash

 

[Captain Timo]

Damn, I cannot wait to watch Matthews in the WC, and for the Leafs this year. It's a great time to be a Leafs fan, things are starting to look bright and this season, though tough in the sense that we won't be contenders, should be fun. The kids are electric to watch, I can't wait!

 

[SnapVirus]

Matthews is no ****in way Generational.

If he would've been drafted by Winnipeg, he'd be compares to Mackinnon/Hall type of player. But since he is drafted by the Leafs, he is god.

 

[BigWilly]

Matthews is no ****in way Generational.

If he would've been drafted by Winnipeg, he'd be compares to Mackinnon/Hall type of player. But since he is drafted by the Leafs, he is god.

That's some solid analysis there SnapVirus.

 

[Tralfamadore]

My personal pegging is Seguin/Malkin-level offense with Kopitar level defense as an absolute peak.

He looks much like Malkin with the puck to me, good hands and awareness, slick on the boards rather than Bullish like Toews/Kopitar. Probably not as fast as Geno, but I like his shot better as well

Definitely the first time since Sundin that I've felt like we have a player who is capable of being the best player on a good team. Never felt that way with Kessel, thought he was a great sidekick who ended up in the spotlight

I wonder if we have a rich mans Toews and poor mans Kane with Matthews+Marner

This would essentially make him the best player in the world.

 

[Purity*]

Matthews is no ****in way Generational.

If he would've been drafted by Winnipeg, he'd be compares to Mackinnon/Hall type of player. But since he is drafted by the Leafs, he is god.

He would have easily gone 1st over either of those players.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Matthews is no ****in way Generational.

If he would've been drafted by Winnipeg, he'd be compares to Mackinnon/Hall type of player. But since he is drafted by the Leafs, he is god.

Most Leaf fans corrected that one fan who used the term generational, although not surprised that you'd find one post in the entire thread to make a big deal about.

Personally I find it incredibly childish that you felt you needed to make a big deal about it and thump your chest about Winnipeg fans somehow being super rational people or insinuating he'd be better off in Winnipeg or something..

Who cares if he's compared to MacKinnon/Hall or if he's compared to McDavid? Any sensible hockey fan will probably know he falls into that (potential) franchise category but he's definitely not generational...as stated before it's really Ovechkin/Crosby/McDavid....anyone else is really going to have to earn that mantle.

 

[Liminality]

Matthews is no ****in way Generational.

If he would've been drafted by Winnipeg, he'd be compares to Mackinnon/Hall type of player. But since he is drafted by the Leafs, he is god.

He's always been compared to Eichel but thanks for the input anyways.

 

[Jeypic]

He's got potential to be a generational talent. Crosby had ovechkin, Gretzky had Lemieux.. Mcdavid could have eichel or matthews. I'm not seeing a whole lot of other players from the past few years come through quite on these guys level. Also don't see the future #1 Patrick looking as good.

Who are you guys placing ahead of matthews for generational talent? Other then mcdavid and maybe eichel?

 

[WTFMAN99]

He's got potential to be a generational talent. Crosby had ovechkin, Gretzky had Lemieux.. Mcdavid could have eichel or matthews. I'm not seeing a whole lot of other players from the past few years come through quite on these guys level. Also don't see the future #1 Patrick looking as good.

Who are you guys placing ahead of matthews for generational talent? Other then mcdavid and maybe eichel?

Crosby, McDavid, and Ovechkin.

These are the generational players in the league.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Matthews is no ****in way Generational.

If he would've been drafted by Winnipeg, he'd be compares to Mackinnon/Hall type of player. But since he is drafted by the Leafs, he is god.

He's been considered a level above that since LONG before the leafs got the first pick, literally years.

I actually think Laine, the guy who almost challenged Matthews for the 1st pick (by all accounts it was never really that close) and who did go to Winnipeg is a better prospect than the two you just mentioned. I think Laine gets drafted above them if he's in their drafts

This would essentially make him the best player in the world.

Well among the best players in the world, which is sorta my point. I should clarify, not Malkin's prime years of 115ish points, but an 85-100 point player with very decent defense, and maybe not quite the level of Toews/Kopitar which is what I meant with the "similar"

I think McDavid will be 95 pts in his bad years, so should clearly differentiate himself as the next tier

 

[hamzarocks]

Crosby, McDavid, and Ovechkin.

These are the generational players in the league.

I'd add malkin. I know he's always injured know but the guy has the 2nd highest ppg after Sid of active players. Injuries have taken awat from his speed and he probably finished with 1200 pts but prime malkin was a beast. Watching highlights of the 09 finals malkin looked unstoppable. He was so quick and explosive. I'd put him on a level that Matthews and eichel won't reach. Just my opinion but I'd take a healthy malkin 1st overall in te 04 draft and maybe 1st over Sid as well if they go on seperate teams. McDavid will join these three and along with Mario, gretz, orr will round out the generational talents(Lindros is very close as well but he was just to injured).

 

[Randy Randerson]

I'd add malkin. I know he's always injured know but the guy has the 2nd highest ppg after Sid of active players. Injuries have taken awat from his speed and he probably finished with 1200 pts but prime malkin was a beast. Watching highlights of the 09 finals malkin looked unstoppable. He was so quick and explosive. I'd put him on a level that Matthews and eichel won't reach. Just my opinion but I'd take a healthy malkin 1st overall in te 04 draft and maybe 1st over Sid as well if they go on seperate teams. McDavid will join these three and along with Mario, gretz, orr will round out the generational talents(Lindros is very close as well but he was just to injured).

I think there's a differentiation between current Geno and pre-2012 when he was healthy. He did look to be on a generational path for sure with 110ish points every year. He's still an excellent, franchise-level player when healthy but his scoring rates are down to a little better than point-per-game since then. I'll agree though, he hit that sort of plane when he was at his peak.

I'd be more than happy if Matthews ended up being the player that Geno is now and played 80 games a year