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Burke out - Good or Bad?

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beauchamp said:
:laugh:

Way to demonize part of the fan base... :amazed:
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Guess you haven't been reading everything here. That was a jab at another poster who through that "Real fans" tag in front of the happy crowd here. Thanks for noticing though.
 
4evaBlue said:
I get that the "realists" love the fact that Burke's fired because he chose not to tank 4 years ago. What I don't get is how they do not realize that had he decided to tank, and try stockpile #1 picks (would have been tough with Oilers winning all the lotteries), he would have been fired, anyways.

It was clear from the presser that the issue wasn't with direction the team was taking, and the team would not "change gears". We essentially have the same franchise mindset with a different figurehead/puppet in charge.
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I don't get why rebuilding clubs have to get the number one pick overall. The 2nd and 9th overall picks are just fine for a rebuilding club, if you keep the picks that is. As we've seen, it's basically been Edmonton, Columbus, New York, and Toronto who have been finishing near the bottom with consistency. Burke had been tanking all along without even trying.

Now that Burke is gone the new GM is suddenly dubbed just a figurehead/puppet by sulking Burkites who are pouting the loss of their hero. Until anything definitive is offered, MLSE only "meddled" to fire the current guy in charge after 4 years of not reaching his own publicly stated goals. People omitting the job he's done as a reason for his firing are fooling themselves.
 
MajorityRules said:
Real Leaf fans aren't happy. Poll speaks volumes.

The biggest joke is what MLSE has pulled on everyone. Nothing has changed except the people (owners) pulling the strings. We'll be in the playoffs very soon as young assets are traded away for immediate help. Too much playoff revenue being missed out on for Rogers and Bell. I give it a year. Same people calling for Burke's head will be calling for Nonis'.
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Do real Leafs fans make comments like this?

"DUMB, extremely stupid reason.

I have no use for this franchise under current ownership. I hope they go another 50 years without cup."
MajorityRules Jan 9th/2013 1:46pm

:)
 
achtungbaby said:
Do real Leafs fans make comments like this?

"DUMB, extremely stupid reason.

I have no use for this franchise under current ownership. I hope they go another 50 years without cup."
MajorityRules Jan 9th/2013 1:46pm

:)
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Cherry picking comments doesn't really help your argument. While it may indicate the general feeling of malaise, it certainly does not explain the whole situation.
 
achtungbaby said:
I don't get why rebuilding clubs have to get the number one pick overall. The 2nd and 9th overall picks are just fine for a rebuilding club, if you keep the picks that is. As we've seen, it's basically been Edmonton, Columbus, New York, and Toronto who have been finishing near the bottom with consistency. Burke had been tanking all along without even trying.

Now that Burke is gone the new GM is suddenly dubbed just a figurehead/puppet by sulking Burkites who are pouting the loss of their hero. Until anything definitive is offered, MLSE only "meddled" to fire the current guy in charge after 4 years of not reaching his own publicly stated goals. People omitting the job he's done as a reason for his firing are fooling themselves.
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So you're fine with people getting fired over non-hockey related issues? Do you seriously offer a definitive explanation from MLSE?
 
4evaBlue said:
So you're fine with people getting fired over non-hockey related issues? Do you seriously offer a definitive explanation from MLSE?
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If the Leafs had been in the playoffs at least once in Burkes tenure does he get fired yesterday? Since he has done so poorly with the hockey related issues I'm fine for MLSE firing him for the other reasons they had along with the poor state of the team.
 
Marcel Cousineau said:
Cherry picking comments doesn't really help your argument. While it may indicate the general feeling of malaise, it certainly does not explain the whole situation.
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What is cherry picking about the comment? I posted the whole thing and wasn't even trying to explain the 'whole' situation. Was merely asking about more about his definition of "real" fans.
 
achtungbaby said:
If the Leafs had been in the playoffs at least once in Burkes tenure does he fired yesterday? Since he has done so poorly with the hockey related issues I'm fine for MLSE firing him for the other reasons they had along with the poor state of the team.
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Do you believe 3.5 seasons is a realistic timeline to turn one of the worst teams (contractually, depth, prospects) in the league into a playoff team?
 
achtungbaby said:
Do real Leafs fans make comments like this?

"DUMB, extremely stupid reason.

I have no use for this franchise under current ownership. I hope they go another 50 years without cup."
MajorityRules Jan 9th/2013 1:46pm

:)
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You're cute. I'm sure if I looked I could find some real winner comments from you but I really don't want to waste the time. It's nice to know that you remember me though.:laugh:
 
achtungbaby said:
If the Leafs had been in the playoffs at least once in Burkes tenure does he get fired yesterday? Since he has done so poorly with the hockey related issues I'm fine for MLSE firing him for the other reasons they had along with the poor state of the team.
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So they fire him for the poor hockey-related issues and poor state of the team, and appoint the guy that was his understudy and had a hand in nearly all of the decisions that got it to this point, resulting in the same sort of philosophy going forward. Seems legit.
 
4evaBlue said:
Do you believe 3.5 seasons is a realistic timeline to turn one of the worst teams (contractually, depth, prospects) in the league into a playoff team?
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Not answering any questions I see. I'll answer one more of yours. Yes, I do believe it's possible as evidenced by other teams in the league. Would I give a GM more time to build their team? Yes, however Burkes own plan said that it wouldn't take that long. Burke made his bed and now he has to sleep in it.
 
4evaBlue said:
Do you believe 3.5 seasons is a realistic timeline to turn one of the worst teams (contractually, depth, prospects) in the league into a playoff team?
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It's not but this wasn't about that.
 
Espher said:
So they fire him for the poor hockey-related issues and poor state of the team, and appoint the guy that was his understudy and had a hand in nearly all of the decisions that got it to this point, resulting in the same sort of philosophy going forward. Seems legit.
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I'd advise you to listen to the Nonis interview on the fan590 today if you think Nonis and Burke are the same type of GM.
 
I don't think much changes.

Burke had turned into more of a figurehead than anything else. Nonis did most of the legwork in the actual hockey moves.

I'm a little worried that we might lose some of the tendency for "big" moves.....though even then Nonis has shown the ability to make the big moves himself with the luongo trade, and Burke hadn't made any big moves since the phaneuf trade.

I'm pretty sure we'll see less stubborness from the front office.....less time wasted putting up with poor performances from players or coaches.
 
achtungbaby said:
Not answering any questions I see. I'll answer one more of yours. Yes, I do believe it's possible as evidenced by other teams in the league. Would I give a GM more time to build their team? Yes, however Burkes own plan said that it wouldn't take that long. Burke made his bed and now he has to sleep in it.
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What other teams were as bad off as the Leafs, when Burke took over, that made the playoffs within 3 1/2 years?
 
I think the worst part of all of this is that now we're getting constant discussion and analysis of the Kessel trade that we thought we'd escaped.

Boy will that haunt us forever.
 
Espher said:
Can you give me a tl;dr? I can't actually pull it up at work.
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AndMat said:
Nonis said he was not asked to make the playoffs but to build the team longterm.
"Pieces here that are gonna be here long term.
"He was not asked to make the playoffs" and wont be fired if he does not"
"want's size down the middle"
"want to build from the net out like burke"
"you can't put the building blocks in place then move them
"if we trade a young player we trade him for another young player for a position we need"
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From the other thread.
 
zeke said:
tb, fla, phx, stl, la.
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Really? They all had a group of 5 players with NTC, NMC's that refused to waive them? They had a previous GM that was nothing but a puppet for their owners with a mandate to make the playoffs no matter the cost? They all had little to no prospects from previous managements that traded all their assets away for immediate help? They all had a team void of any real talent in order to kick start the rebuilding process. All of those teams had all of those problems and solved them in 3 1/2 years and have gone on to be perrenial cup contenders? My apologies, I guess it's a piece of cake and every GM should be able to do it.
 
MajorityRules said:
Really? They all had a group of 5 players with NTC, NMC's that refused to waive them? They had a previous GM that was nothing but a puppet for their owners with a mandate to make the playoffs no matter the cost? They all had little to no prospects from previous managements that traded all their assets away for immediate help? They all had a team void of any real talent in order to kick start the rebuilding process. All of those teams had all of those problems and solved them in 3 1/2 years and have gone on to be perrenial cup contenders? My apologies, I guess it's a piece of cake and every GM should be able to do it.
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meh, it's not that hard to make the playoffs.

if burke hadn't been such a disaster with his free agent signings, the leafs would have made it to the playoffs once or twice.
 
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