Proposal: Buffalo Sabres - Anaheim Ducks

[Halla]

So Anaheim is gonna get a downgrade at D and at F?

Buffalo needs to add significantly

 

[EK47]

Wow that is interesting. I thought Anaheim was getting the better players.

If you look at Hockey Future's Ratings:
Zemgus Girgensons has a higher probability of success rating than Rickard Rakell, although Rickard Rakell has a higher talent score than Zemgus Girgensons.

Zemgus Girgensons
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/zemgus_girgensons/
Talent Score 7.0
Probability of Success B

Rickard Rakell
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/rikard_rakell/
Talent Score 7.5
Probability of Success C

Rasmus Ristolainen has a higher talent score than Hampus Lindholm with the same probability of success.

Rasmus Ristolainen
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/rasmus-ristolainen/
Talent Score 8.0
Probability of Success B

Hampus Lindholm
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/hampus_lindholm/
Talent Score 7.5
Probability of Success B

Also, Rasmus Ristolainen played tons of minutes.

From a personnel view I thought this trade was better for Anaheim as well since Anaheim would be trading a right handed shot forward (Rickard Rakell) for a left handed shot forward (Zemgus Girgensons) and Anaheim has many right handed shot forwards (Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry, Ryan Kesler, and Jakob Silfverberg). I think this is why Anaheim signed Mason Raymond and there are rumors about Rick Nash. Also, Anaheim would be trading a left handed shot defenseman (Hampus Lindholm) for a right handed shot defenseman (Rasmus Ristolainen) and Anaheim has many left handed shot defenseman (Sami Vatanen, Cam Fowler, Simon Despres, Hampus Lindholm, Clayton Stoner). The defensive pairing of the Finns Sami Vatanen and Rasmus Ristolainen would be cool.

From a personnel view for the Buffalo Sabres, it would have made a lot of sense for the Buffalo Sabres when they needed a left handed shot defenseman and a right handed shot forward, but with the trade of a right handed shot defenseman (Mark Pysyk) for a left handed shot defenseman (Dmitry Kulikov) and the signing a right handed shot forward (Kyle Okposo) it doesn't make as much sense. Although maybe the Swedes Rickard Rakell and Hampus Lindholm would be good for the Swedes Johan Larsson and Robin Lehner.

It is interesting to see the comments on this thread because I thought this trade really weighed in favor of the Anaheim Ducks.

Do we have a Post of the year award yet?

OnT:
Lindholm>=Ristolainen
Rakell>Girgensons

 

[haseoke39]

Agree with the Anaheim fans here. This doesn't work. And it does nothing to solve anaheims cap issue to boot.

 

[Not So Mighty]

I wish building a team was as simple as balancing your righties and lefties.

 

[GellMann]

Sabres fan who'd do this in a heartbeat

 

[SnoopDogg]

There's no point, the value seems pretty close but I can't part with Risto this early

 

[clownfat]

Not sure why ducks fans are so certain they are downgrading on d in this trade. Looking at both over the past three seasons Risto has gotten better each year and outproduced him in points significantly this year. Lindholm has been very good but also very consistent without a lot of growth from year to year. If the trend continues Risto will be much better, if not they are very similar in value. Also Risto is a year younger.

Trade value is good but I wouldn't do it if I were Buffalo.

 

[Vipers31]

Not sure why ducks fans are so certain they are downgrading on d in this trade. Looking at both over the past three seasons Risto has gotten better each year and outproduced him in points significantly this year. Lindholm has been very good but also very consistent without a lot of growth from year to year. If the trend continues Risto will be much better, if not they are very similar in value. Also Risto is a year younger.

Trade value is good but I wouldn't do it if I were Buffalo.

And that is an acceptable rundown if you're the GM for a point-based fantasy league.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Not sure why ducks fans are so certain they are downgrading on d in this trade. Looking at both over the past three seasons Risto has gotten better each year and outproduced him in points significantly this year. Lindholm has been very good but also very consistent without a lot of growth from year to year. If the trend continues Risto will be much better, if not they are very similar in value. Also Risto is a year younger.

Trade value is good but I wouldn't do it if I were Buffalo.

Just going to post a bit from an article, but yea lindholm isn't growing as a player.. there is more to hockey then points, and there is explanations and outliers to why peoples points don't change.

Since then, they’ve allowed 40.66 shot attempts against/60—only Barret Jackman and Ryan Ellis have been more efficient at suppressing shots. Manson and Lindholm’s mark is more than two shots fewer than Aaron Ekblad and Brian Campbell’s, and more than three better than Doughty and Brayden McNabb’s.

Despite his excellence, few players in the league have been more snakebitten than Lindholm this season. Just 5.1 percent of the shots the Ducks have taken with him on the ice at 5-on-5 had gone in through late March, which is the 20th-best rate on his team and 493rd out of the 523 skaters who’ve played 500 minutes. His counting stats and plus-minus have taken a hit as a result, but it ultimately hasn’t mattered because of how markedly he’s been tilting the ice in his team’s favour.

His 57.9 possession percentage is good for fifth in the league among blueliners, and his 57 percent scoring-chance rate is third after Victor Hedman and Ryan Ellis.
Any way you slice it, the 22-year-old Lindholm’s development has been a crucial revelation for the Ducks and their Cup aspirations. Despite not having the sexy counting stats of teammate and fellow restricted free agent Sami Vatanen—or many other defencemen—Lindholm’s ability to move the needle for everyone he plays with puts him a cut above most defenders and makes the choice easy should Anaheim decide it can only keep one of its young blueliners.

 

[lindholmie]

There's no point, the value seems pretty close but I can't part with Risto this early

only buff fans saying its close when its not close at all lmao

 

[tgo0]

Wow that is interesting. I thought Anaheim was getting the better players.

If you look at Hockey Future's Ratings:
Zemgus Girgensons has a higher probability of success rating than Rickard Rakell, although Rickard Rakell has a higher talent score than Zemgus Girgensons.

Zemgus Girgensons
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/zemgus_girgensons/
Talent Score 7.0
Probability of Success B

Rickard Rakell
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/rikard_rakell/
Talent Score 7.5
Probability of Success C

Rasmus Ristolainen has a higher talent score than Hampus Lindholm with the same probability of success.

Rasmus Ristolainen
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/rasmus-ristolainen/
Talent Score 8.0
Probability of Success B

Hampus Lindholm
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/hampus_lindholm/
Talent Score 7.5
Probability of Success B

Also, Rasmus Ristolainen played tons of minutes.

From a personnel view I thought this trade was better for Anaheim as well since Anaheim would be trading a right handed shot forward (Rickard Rakell) for a left handed shot forward (Zemgus Girgensons) and Anaheim has many right handed shot forwards (Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry, Ryan Kesler, and Jakob Silfverberg). I think this is why Anaheim signed Mason Raymond and there are rumors about Rick Nash. Also, Anaheim would be trading a left handed shot defenseman (Hampus Lindholm) for a right handed shot defenseman (Rasmus Ristolainen) and Anaheim has many left handed shot defenseman (Sami Vatanen, Cam Fowler, Simon Despres, Hampus Lindholm, Clayton Stoner). The defensive pairing of the Finns Sami Vatanen and Rasmus Ristolainen would be cool.

From a personnel view for the Buffalo Sabres, it would have made a lot of sense for the Buffalo Sabres when they needed a left handed shot defenseman and a right handed shot forward, but with the trade of a right handed shot defenseman (Mark Pysyk) for a left handed shot defenseman (Dmitry Kulikov) and the signing a right handed shot forward (Kyle Okposo) it doesn't make as much sense. Although maybe the Swedes Rickard Rakell and Hampus Lindholm would be good for the Swedes Johan Larsson and Robin Lehner.

It is interesting to see the comments on this thread because I thought this trade really weighed in favor of the Anaheim Ducks.

This might be my favourite post in the ~10 years I've been coming to HF. Well played sir.

I hope this is saved for the "Post of the year" thread.

 

[RememberTheName]

Wow that is interesting. I thought Anaheim was getting the better players.

If you look at Hockey Future's Ratings:
Zemgus Girgensons has a higher probability of success rating than Rickard Rakell, although Rickard Rakell has a higher talent score than Zemgus Girgensons.

Zemgus Girgensons
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/zemgus_girgensons/
Talent Score 7.0
Probability of Success B

Rickard Rakell
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/rikard_rakell/
Talent Score 7.5
Probability of Success C

Rasmus Ristolainen has a higher talent score than Hampus Lindholm with the same probability of success.

Rasmus Ristolainen
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/rasmus-ristolainen/
Talent Score 8.0
Probability of Success B

Hampus Lindholm
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/hampus_lindholm/
Talent Score 7.5
Probability of Success B

Also, Rasmus Ristolainen played tons of minutes.

From a personnel view I thought this trade was better for Anaheim as well since Anaheim would be trading a right handed shot forward (Rickard Rakell) for a left handed shot forward (Zemgus Girgensons) and Anaheim has many right handed shot forwards (Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry, Ryan Kesler, and Jakob Silfverberg). I think this is why Anaheim signed Mason Raymond and there are rumors about Rick Nash. Also, Anaheim would be trading a left handed shot defenseman (Hampus Lindholm) for a right handed shot defenseman (Rasmus Ristolainen) and Anaheim has many left handed shot defenseman (Sami Vatanen, Cam Fowler, Simon Despres, Hampus Lindholm, Clayton Stoner). The defensive pairing of the Finns Sami Vatanen and Rasmus Ristolainen would be cool.

From a personnel view for the Buffalo Sabres, it would have made a lot of sense for the Buffalo Sabres when they needed a left handed shot defenseman and a right handed shot forward, but with the trade of a right handed shot defenseman (Mark Pysyk) for a left handed shot defenseman (Dmitry Kulikov) and the signing a right handed shot forward (Kyle Okposo) it doesn't make as much sense. Although maybe the Swedes Rickard Rakell and Hampus Lindholm would be good for the Swedes Johan Larsson and Robin Lehner.

It is interesting to see the comments on this thread because I thought this trade really weighed in favor of the Anaheim Ducks.

Yea, and Nail Yakupov is one of the best players in the league because of his 9.0 talent score
Post of the year right here. Bravo.

 

[eternalbedhead]

Yea, and Nail Yakupov is one of the best players in the league because of his 9.0 talent score
Post of the year right here. Bravo.

Don't talk about the next Alexander Ovechkin like that...


Anyways, this is not a trade either team should be looking to make in the first place, while Anaheim downgrades in both positions. As for team needs, we could use a solid right-handed shutdown defender, but not at the cost of our left-handed one.


And there is absolutely no reason for us to trade Rakell. At all. (well, maybe if we can't sign him due to a nice lack of foresight shown by our GM)

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Both Ducks players are better than the respective Sabres players in this OP.

I'm a Sabres fan,

 

[stokes84]

Ristolainen is better than Lindholm. There are a few players the analytic people have decided to cling to or shun, and Lindholm is one they cling to and Ristolainen is one they shunned. It's a case study on why the math people who never played the sport at any competitive level don't know how to judge hockey players properly. It's also another example of why you shouldn't take HFboard posters seriously.

 

[Vipers31]

Ristolainen is better than Lindholm. There are a few players the analytic people have decided to cling to or shun, and Lindholm is one they cling to and Ristolainen is one they shunned. It's a case study on why the math people who never played the sport at any competitive level don't know how to judge hockey players properly. It's also another example of why you shouldn't take HFboard posters seriously.

But it isn't just the analytics people with Lindholm - it's just about everyone. You're the rare exception who's just continuing to be behind in regards to him, without any sort of a case, be it analytics- or scouting-based.

 

[dracom]

Ristolainen is better than Lindholm. There are a few players the analytic people have decided to cling to or shun, and Lindholm is one they cling to and Ristolainen is one they shunned. It's a case study on why the math people who never played the sport at any competitive level don't know how to judge hockey players properly. It's also another example of why you shouldn't take HFboard posters seriously.

So what you're saying is despite what advanced stats say, you're player is better? Huh, that suspiciously sounds like the same argument we use for Fowler, but we get told Fowler is barely a NHL level player because of advanced stats. Can't have it both ways.

Also, lol at thinking Ristolainen is better than Lindholm.

 

[stokes84]

So what you're saying is despite what advanced stats say, you're player is better? Huh, that suspiciously sounds like the same argument we use for Fowler, but we get told Fowler is barely a NHL level player because of advanced stats. Can't have it both ways.

Also, lol at thinking Ristolainen is better than Lindholm.

I think Fowler is good, so you are talking to the wrong person.

 

[stokes84]

But it isn't just the analytics people with Lindholm - it's just about everyone. You're the rare exception who's just continuing to be behind in regards to him, without any sort of a case, be it analytics- or scouting-based.

Saying he's not as good as Ristolainen, who has more tools than just about any young defenseman, doesn't mean I'm behind on Lindholm. It just means he's not as good as Ristolainen.

 

[Vipers31]

Saying he's not as good as Ristolainen, who has more tools than just about any young defenseman, doesn't mean I'm behind on Lindholm. It just means he's not as good as Ristolainen.

In your opinion, and just about your opinion only. Judging by this thread, a minority opinion even among Sabres fans. And backed up by no evaluation of their strengths, or any other reasoning. So, it's going to be looked at accordingly. Also, using the term "tools" even this attempt at a reasoning doesn't even pass the start line, because all tools in the world don't explain how he's better. That could be an argument for a value or future discussion, but isn't fit to back up a "he's better" argument.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Ristolainen is better than Lindholm. There are a few players the analytic people have decided to cling to or shun, and Lindholm is one they cling to and Ristolainen is one they shunned. It's a case study on why the math people who never played the sport at any competitive level don't know how to judge hockey players properly. It's also another example of why you shouldn't take HFboard posters seriously.

I'd definitely agree that analytics alone should not drive anyone's opinions on the matter. I'd be willing to accept the standard "rather keep out guy" answer when it comes to Lindholm and Ristolainen, even though I truly believe Lindholm is the better player. That wouldn't fly when it comes to Rakell and Girgs though, there's no tangible argument to be found that would explain why the Ducks would want to make that downgrade, especially considering our need for scoring.

 

[mytduxfan*]

Lindholm > Risto
Rakell >>> Girgs.

EZ pass.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

I call BS on the whole Lindholm is better than Risto. He had the benefit of playing on a team with a good top four, a good partner and on a good team. Ristolainen was "the"defenceman for Buffalo, had a **** partner on a team that's rebuilding. Of course Lindholm looked better, but that doesn't mean he's actually that much better or better at all

 

[dracom]

I call BS on the whole Lindholm is better than Risto. He had the benefit of playing on a team with a good top four, a good partner and on a good team. Ristolainen was "the"defenceman for Buffalo, had a **** partner on a team that's rebuilding. Of course Lindholm looked better, but that doesn't mean he's actually that much better or better at all

Lindholm played with Bieksa and Manson during the season. Bieksa is a #6th defenseman at best, Manson is a rookie who had a bad last quarter of the season. The top 4 you're talking about included Fowler, which based on fancy stats is a terrible player and Bieksa. Our top 4 had two good players throughout the season in Lindholm and Fowler, and two players who were decent to bad during the season.

A player playing on a good team shouldn't make that player not as good as another player playing on a bad team. Otherwise all good players on bad teams are actually better than other good players on good teams. Which common sense should tell you isn't true.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I call BS on the whole Lindholm is better than Risto. He had the benefit of playing on a team with a good top four, a good partner and on a good team. Ristolainen was "the"defenceman for Buffalo, had a **** partner on a team that's rebuilding. Of course Lindholm looked better, but that doesn't mean he's actually that much better or better at all

Cept for the fact that he is better at this point in their careers... does reisto have potential to be better yep... but hes not there yet, and he may never make it there... they both still young and growing.

Talking about team, you realize anahiem had 1 of the lowest 5 on 5 shooting percentages in the league when lindholm was on the ice... he played with a Rookie(later round draft pick) D-men in Manson... I suppose you want to give manson all the credit for lindholms ridiculously good advanced stats?

Our goalies were pretty average at best throughout the season, and even most of our dmen are considered overated by a good portion of hfboards.