Value of: Buffalo prospects (and players?)

[Robtom18]

A top prospect and a 1st from Buffalo is generally much more valuable than a top prospect and a 1st from a contender. Adjust expectations accordingly.

Well thats not exactly true.

 

[TBF1972]

Quinn squared? Sounds dangerous.

sounds like a job for you if i look at your pic.

 

[Avs44]

Prove it.

What are the dtas of them apart.

Thatd not even factoring the end yrs of the contract. People botch about Skinnrt and KO high cap hit CD production. Raysnnrn will be worse after thr gift 3 yrs of a signed extension.

You understand that the onus to provide proof is on the person who makes the initial claim, right? And that person is you. It's your job to prove that your claim is correct -- not the job of everyone else to disprove your off-the-cuff hot take.

Anyways, according to this site here (with a game-by-game breakdown) Rantanen, in games that MacKinnon did not play in due to injury (not including all the games they weren't on the same line), has 22 goals and 30 assists (for 52 points) in 46 games without MacKinnon. My preliminary searches to verify their game-by-game logs indicates that their data is correct. Do with that as you will.

Also, genuine curiosity: how in the hell did you get "Raysnnrn" from Rantanen?

 

[57special]

Dahlin's best play has been on RD.

Oooo ... anyway, I'm a huge Brodin fan , so I am probably the worst guy to talk about his value. There is no doubt that he is one player who would instantly change certain aspects of the team... he is not just a great defender without the puck, but elite at retrieving and moving the puck out of the D zone quickly, as well as D zone board battles.

I would rather lose him than Faber at this point, but it's sort like saying I'd rather lose my left leg than my right.

JEE would be the other guy who would go about changing things in Buffalo in the way i think they need to be changed, but again, I just don't see it happening, especially with his crazy good contract.

Still think the cheapest, and most realistic way to go is get a proven coach, and see what he does with the talent on the team. I mean, VAN was a mess till they got Boudreau, and now Tochett, even though they had some good players. Of course, they also changed the GM, which is a whole other conversation.

 

[Mitch nylander]

Appreciate the attempt.



The sort of mid-line guys Buffalo is looking for are likely the same sort Columbus is going to be looking for to compliment their youth too.

Ya but Columbus' positional strength is Buffalo's weakness + vice versa.

CBJ - Assuming Jiricek and Werenski are untouchable... Mateychuk/Bean/Boqvist/Severson/Svozil/Ceulemans/Peeke/Knazko/Christensen/Blakenberg/ Bjork are all part of a deep log jam of guys that could add to buffalo's weak point.

Buffalo - Assuming Tage Thompson/Cozens/Peterka/Benson are your untouchables
You have: Quinn/Kulich/Savoie/Mittelstadt/Rosen/Ostlund/Rousek/Neuchev/Krebs/Wahlberg as part of your log jam that could be of help for CBJ.

 

[Zman5778]

Still think the cheapest, and most realistic way to go is get a proven coach, and see what he does with the talent on the team. I mean, VAN was a mess till they got Boudreau, and now Tochett, even though they had some good players. Of course, they also changed the GM, which is a whole other conversation.

Speaking to the choir, my friend.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Well thats not exactly true.

Again, the Sabres' 1st is the 8th overall pick right now. The gap in value between that and a mid to late 20s pick is enormous.

Let's use my team and your team. Take Nikishin off the table, is there not a notable difference in value between Carolina 1st (25OA atm) + "top prospect" Nadeau and St. Louis' 1st (15OA atm) + Snuggerud?

 

[freester]

Reinbacher

I’d offer Savoie.

 

[Chainshot]

Ya but Columbus' positional strength is Buffalo's weakness + vice versa.

CBJ - Assuming Jiricek and Werenski are untouchable... Mateychuk/Bean/Boqvist/Severson/Svozil/Ceulemans/Peeke/Knazko/Christensen/Blakenberg/ Bjork are all part of a deep log jam of guys that could add to buffalo's weak point.

Buffalo - Assuming Tage Thompson/Cozens/Peterka/Benson are your untouchables
You have: Quinn/Kulich/Savoie/Mittelstadt/Rosen/Ostlund/Rousek/Neuchev/Krebs/Wahlberg as part of your log jam that could be of help for CBJ.

I don't think we see their weakness in similar fashion - Buffalo already has their top 4 are all defensemen under 24 and just added Ryan Johnson into the mix at the age of 22. They need someone in the 26-30 range who can defend and in particular provide defensive coverage for Power. Swapping around prospect for prospect might work a bit, though they also have Strbak from the Slovak U20 team and a couple of Russian darkhorse prospects in Vsevolod Komarov (may win the Q d-man of the year) and Nikita Novikov (only 20, spent his 18 and 19 year old seasons mostly in the KHL) in the pipeline. There isn't urgency to just swap young forward for young defense, they're going to need some folks with edge on their blades and experience to bolster what they have. Think of it like Buffalo needs a Boone Jenner on defense. There isn't a lot of traction to just moving prospect guys around as much.

That said, Blankenberg would be someone they should look at since he did provide the sort of d-zone cover for Power in their time as teammates at Michigan. I just don't think it works to do that right now as the solution since both are still so green.

 

[squashmaple]

CBJ and Buffalo seem like ideal trade partners:

Buffalo is locked and loaded on forward. CBJ has a ton of d depth.

Something around Svozil and Rosen? or even Adam Boqvist/Jake Bean and Jack Quinn?

I feel that it makes so much sense from both sides.

I don’t think they line up well at all because they’re very similar pools. It’s just that what you’re calling weakness for both are already in the NHL instead of other leagues. Columbus has so many forward prospects all in the NHL (the three Russians, KJ, Fantilli), same as Buffalo’s defense (no less than Dahlin and Power, plus Ryan Johnson). Buffalo dearly needs a Jiricek, but Columbus does too with nothing but Ceulemans behind him, so unlikely to move him. It would be depth for depth, and I don’t know if that’s interesting for either team. Neither team should have interest in more prospects. They both need the complementary veterans to make sense, which is the hardest part of rebuilding.

 

[Murzu]

If I'm giving up that I'd be targeting someone 24 or so C , not a near 30 yr old who live off of MscKinnon who would be an anchor in 4 yrs

Rantanen is 27 and more doesn't need MacKinnon to be productive..

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Oooo ... anyway, I'm a huge Brodin fan , so I am probably the worst guy to talk about his value. There is no doubt that he is one player who would instantly change certain aspects of the team... he is not just a great defender without the puck, but elite at retrieving and moving the puck out of the D zone quickly, as well as D zone board battles.

I would rather lose him than Faber at this point, but it's sort like saying I'd rather lose my left leg than my right.

JEE would be the other guy who would go about changing things in Buffalo in the way i think they need to be changed, but again, I just don't see it happening, especially with his crazy good contract.

Still think the cheapest, and most realistic way to go is get a proven coach, and see what he does with the talent on the team. I mean, VAN was a mess till they got Boudreau, and now Tochett, even though they had some good players. Of course, they also changed the GM, which is a whole other conversation.

Oh absolutely, new coach is #1 priority- it’s just that if I’m looking at our roster, ok, still love the young talent, there’s just a shit ton of it. And there are still holes in the foreseeable finished lineup. So if a team with a good 24-28 year old dman wants out of a salary and wants to load up on the future, maybe something this deadline works.

But either way, ya, the machine ain’t spinning right until we have new leadership. Just wondering if there are certain vets we could bring in now. Nelson+Pelich from Isles, for instance, for a chance to accelerate a rebuild for them. Not a huge Nelson fan (doesn’t fit the timeline anyways), just an example.

 

[VaporTrail]

He didn't said that they are. He said if not for bad PP.

I know..And I disagree..this team is a lot more away from a playoff spot than a better power play.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

I know..And I disagree..this team is a lot more away from a playoff spot than a better power play.

We are 9 points away....

That's 4 more wins lol or 3 wins and an OTL.

You think 10 more goals wouldn't = 4 more wins?

 

[HabsAddict]

I think buffalo needs more then a new coach, they need leadership from the group that is rising.

We are loaded with LHD and one of the most valuable is Ghule. He is the Weber type of leader by demanding the most from himself and expecting that from others.

I would trade Ghule but now we just put a hole in our defence to cover our center position. The only upside is that we have so many LHDs that one may rise, but I doubt it. We also have Suzuki leadership who is also as serious as a heart attack. Then add Dach who may be coming along from the leadership direction.

Ghule needs to fetch a 100 point 1C to be talked about. That may happen AFTER we see what Hutson will do. Maybe it may be Hutson who rises in value and gets traded.

You got to give to get....and the get better be a sure thing.

(Meanwhile, I'm going to be roasted by Hab fans.)

 

[is the answer jesus]

I think buffalo needs more then a new coach, they need leadership from the group that is rising.

We are loaded with LHD and one of the most valuable is Ghule. He is the Weber type of leader by demanding the most from himself and expecting that from others.

I would trade Ghule but now we just put a hole in our defence to cover our center position. The only upside is that we have so many LHDs that one may rise, but I doubt it. We also have Suzuki leadership who is also as serious as a heart attack. Then add Dach who may be coming along from the leadership direction.

Ghule needs to fetch a 100 point 1C to be talked about. That may happen AFTER we see what Hutson will do. Maybe it may be Hutson who rises in value and gets traded.

You got to give to get....and the get better be a sure thing.

(Meanwhile, I'm going to be roasted by Hab fans.)

A 100 point center huh, that's it? At least you're keeping your expectations in check.

 

[VaporTrail]

We are 9 points away....

That's 4 more wins lol or 3 wins and an OTL.

You think 10 more goals wouldn't = 4 more wins?

And they are 10 points from last in the East. They're the 4th worst team in the East..12 teams are better...they've severely regressed since last year...These guys are losers.

 

[Djp]

Did you watch any Avs games last year when MacKinnon was out in December and Mikko carried the mail (9 goals, 14 points, almost 25 minutes a night in TOI as a forward as he played center)? I would take it that no, you did not or else you wouldn't have said what you said.

There are a lot of players who put up a bunch of pts over 5-10 games too.


im not saying hr sucks. He’s just a big buyer beware on any contract over 4 yrs long.

 

[Misko]

I think Buffalo gets a new coach and/or captain before they move a major piece/start blowing up the prospect pool. The whole roster took a step back production wise, that doesn't happen without a common denominator. Something needs to be fixed in the locker room before you start doing roster surgery.

In any case, young players like Benson, Quinn, Peterka, probably Levi, are 100% untouchable, and I'm sure KA is probably hanging up on asks about them. Kulich I think is also highly regarded in the org and I think he'd only be moved in a deal for a stud. It's also hard to envision this team moving on from a core player like Cozens or Power, giving up on either would be foolish.

 

[Double Dion]

I do think Buffalo needs a Coleman/Hyman type of player in the mix. Not those guys necessarily, but that type. They also need a defense first defenseman that can handle d zone starts and top 6 competition. They have so many assets. It should be easy to fix. But not changing it shouldn't be an option at this point.

 

[RangerBoy]

I don’t think they line up well at all because they’re very similar pools. It’s just that what you’re calling weakness for both are already in the NHL instead of other leagues. Columbus has so many forward prospects all in the NHL (the three Russians, KJ, Fantilli), same as Buffalo’s defense (no less than Dahlin and Power, plus Ryan Johnson). Buffalo dearly needs a Jiricek, but Columbus does too with nothing but Ceulemans behind him, so unlikely to move him. It would be depth for depth, and I don’t know if that’s interesting for either team. Neither team should have interest in more prospects. They both need the complementary veterans to make sense, which is the hardest part of rebuilding.

Both teams have too many players. They will get another high pick. How do they consolidate the players into a cohesive winning team? The last thing these teams need is another high pick. It's time for them to put a winning product on the ice.

 

[Chainshot]

I do think Buffalo needs a Coleman/Hyman type of player in the mix. Not those guys necessarily, but that type. They also need a defense first defenseman that can handle d zone starts and top 6 competition. They have so many assets. It should be easy to fix. But not changing it shouldn't be an option at this point.

Very much so. However, their staff is on record as not directing them to finish their hits so it goes beyond just having that sort of guy to draw them into the fight. They need a change behind the bench too.

 

[TageGod]

Contrary to what some Sabres fans are saying, these players are 100% unavailable:

Dahlin, Thompson, Cozens, Tuch, Peterka, Quinn, Benson, Power

Do not get it confused, this team had a massive identity issue and a struggle to learn to play Granato's new system. Cozens is now back to his old self. Tage is as well (he seems to be lacking his ability to pick the corners still) but has been massively snakebitten. By most accounts, this is a top 15 team this season except for power play. Tage propped it up too much last year.

Between Savoie's injuries, his draft position, and his performance, you have a mix of KA being super high on him, as well as teams wanting him for less because of injuries so I think he is currently off the table.

I like Greenway, but the Sabres lineup is set in:

Skinner Thompson Tuch
Peterka Cozens Quinn
Greenway Mitts Benson

Which means the only way to get that forward is to push Greenway down (or a miracle Skinner move). I would prefer to add rather than move skinner (next year move).

So available are:

all our obvious UFA's
Krebs
Mitts (overpay required)
Joker (He looks good lately so wont be cheap KA may want to resign)
Rosen
KA said no to Kulich but doesn't every GM until they get the offer?
probably not Ostlund
All other prospects

 

[HabsAddict]

Mittelestadt salary demands will set his value...and return.

If he thinks he's worth 7+x8, good luck.

If he signs in the 5x8 , he's worth a high pick.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

You understand that the onus to provide proof is on the person who makes the initial claim, right? And that person is you. It's your job to prove that your claim is correct -- not the job of everyone else to disprove your off-the-cuff hot take.

Anyways, according to this site here (with a game-by-game breakdown) Rantanen, in games that MacKinnon did not play in due to injury (not including all the games they weren't on the same line), has 22 goals and 30 assists (for 52 points) in 46 games without MacKinnon. My preliminary searches to verify their game-by-game logs indicates that their data is correct. Do with that as you will.

Also, genuine curiosity: how in the hell did you get "Raysnnrn" from Rantanen?

Probably drunk. Matches with the rest of the message too