Proposal: Buffalo - Calgary Prospect Swap

[wasunder]

This is a good deal until Tim Murray sobers up

 

[Snippit]

Hilarious how certain Flames fans are pretending like they wouldn't do this deal.

This is the worst offer that I've seen on HF that 1) wasn't a troll post and 2) was from a regular poster.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

This is a good deal until Tim Murray sobers up

Just have to send him some mushrooms with the proposal. Then it will work.

 

[Johnnybegood13]

Hilarious how certain Flames fans are pretending like they wouldn't do this deal.

This is the worst offer that I've seen on HF that 1) wasn't a troll post and 2) was from a regular poster.

This Flames fan would jump all over it but I have to say a small part of me thinks of future regret.

With his vision and skating a mentally mature Kylington may just turn into a special player.

 

[wunderpanda]

Yours for a 3rd round pick.

Done. Jokipaka for a 3rd is much less stressful

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

This Flames fan would jump all over it but I have to say a small part of me thinks of future regret.

With his vision and skating a mentally mature Kylington may just turn into a special player.

This is my reasoning. And also we need the defensemen more

 

[InfinityIggy]

Nylander is the far more valuable prospect. Really lopsided proposal even factoring in Kylingtons potential.

 

[Haatley]

Hilarious how certain Flames fans are pretending like they wouldn't do this deal.

This is the worst offer that I've seen on HF that 1) wasn't a troll post and 2) was from a regular poster.

Don't think anyone really said they wouldn't do the deal. It is just a hell of a lot closer than people are making it out to be. Kylington has enormous upside and has done nothing but increase his value since being drafted.

 

[Sheriff Bert]

I was really high on Kylington 2 years ago, but it worries me how far he slipped in the draft. This was a guy that was supposed to be a high first rounder.

Unless he miraculously has a turn-around, I wouldn't even consider moving Nylander for him.

How would Flames fans feel about a deal involving Fasching/Bailey +more?

 

[Snippit]

Don't think anyone really said they wouldn't do the deal. It is just a hell of a lot closer than people are making it out to be. Kylington has enormous upside and has done nothing but increase his value since being drafted.

1. It really is not that close.

2. Go and read previous posts if you think nobody has said they wouldn't do the deal.

 

[Haatley]

1. It really is not that close.

2. Go and read previous posts if you think nobody has said they wouldn't do the deal.

Nylander isn't that good. Pre draft hype was in Kylington's favour by a long shot.

It's close.

 

[YourAverageFan*]

Nylander isn't that good. Pre draft hype was in Kylington's favour by a long shot.

It's close.

I will say I think Nylander has the higher trade value just because of draft pedigree but the bolded is very true. Kylington was one of the highest touted players in 2015. Many scouts had him pegged as the #3 prospect after McDavid and Eichel prior to the 2014-15 season and said he reminded them of Erik Karlsson.

 

[Volica]

Calgary does this deal everyday of the week; as I mentioned it before. But Calgary also only moves Oliver for a deal like this (where it's a high tier prospect coming back).

The kid's looking really, really good in the AHL. If he was a first round pick; the hype around him would be crazy. .5 ppg in the AHL from a 19 year old Dman is pretty good man. Him learning both ends of the ice is great; the kid's projecting well.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

1. It really is not that close.

Do tell me what about Kylington's hockey game, on the ice, when he plays the game of ice hockey, is not close to Alex Nylander on the ice, when he plays the game of ice hockey.

Without using phrases and words like:
Drafted 8th overall
Pedigree
HFboards Poll

I was really high on Kylington 2 years ago, but it worries me how far he slipped in the draft. This was a guy that was supposed to be a high first rounder.

He also had a back injury in his draft year while being poorly handled by his SHL team.

Unless he miraculously has a turn-around, I wouldn't even consider moving Nylander for him.

What do you define as a "miraculous turnaround"?

He is, at age 19, a top pairing D in the AHL (where most players his age are not even eligible to play) where he is dominating his competition on a nightly basis defensively, while using his elite skill level to regularily create offense, on a team where the power play defensemen choices are a game of nightly roulette for the coach. What exactly does he need to do to turn around from that? He is killing penalties, playing all situations on a team that is 1st in its AHL division, while being the 2nd youngest team in the AHL.

Once he hits a Nick Leddy circa 2011-14 level, you won't be able to get him for just Alex Nylander. I proposed this trade only because it makes sense now, while the Flames are desperate for a top line RW.

 

[DJN21]

Do tell me what about Kylington's hockey game, on the ice, when he plays the game of ice hockey, is not close to Alex Nylander on the ice, when he plays the game of ice hockey.

Without using phrases and words like:
Drafted 8th overall
Pedigree
HFboards Poll



He also had a back injury in his draft year while being poorly handled by his SHL team.



What do you define as a "miraculous turnaround"?

He is, at age 19, a top pairing D in the AHL (where most players his age are not even eligible to play) where he is dominating his competition on a nightly basis defensively, while using his elite skill level to regularily create offense, on a team where the power play defensemen choices are a game of nightly roulette for the coach. What exactly does he need to do to turn around from that? He is killing penalties, playing all situations on a team that is 1st in its AHL division, while being the 2nd youngest team in the AHL.

Once he hits a Nick Leddy circa 2011-14 level, you won't be able to get him for just Alex Nylander. I proposed this trade only because it makes sense now, while the Flames are desperate for a top line RW.

So we can get him for a 2nd and not nylander then?

 

[DJN21]

You may have just made the most excuses in one post I've ever seen...Pedigree doesn't count, draft position doesn't count, popular consensus doesn't count...his back was hirt...his coach misused him...he's young...good lord. If every star aligns in the sky by God you are right!

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

You may have just made the most excuses in one post I've ever seen...Pedigree doesn't count, draft position doesn't count, popular consensus doesn't count...his back was hirt...his coach misused him...he's young...good lord. If every star aligns in the sky by God you are right!

A player's value is determined by how good they are on the ice. Teams don't care about Pedigree, HFboards consensus, or draft position. Your play on the ice can't be evaluated when you're not on the ice.

Those aren't excuses, they're common sense.

And his back being hurt in his draft year is well-documented. If you consider that an excuse, go for it.

 

[DJN21]

A player's value is determined by how good they are on the ice. Teams don't care about Pedigree, HFboards consensus, or draft position. Your play on the ice can't be evaluated when you're not on the ice.

Those aren't excuses, they're common sense.

And his back being hurt in his draft year is well-documented. If you consider that an excuse, go for it.

They're EXCUSES when no one agrees with you that kylington holds more value than Nylander so you start parading reasons why you're right to justify it. That's pretty much the definition of an excuse.

Kylington's the definition of a boom or bust prospect. If he really hits then he can be #2 or #3 in this league for long time to come. However the question marks surrounding him are so large he slipped to his draft to where he was. He still cant play much actual defense and has to learn that on the fly.

Nylander may never be a top line winger but he is safer to play in the nhl as at least a 40 point player if not 30 points higher.

That's not my opinion...it's scouts, gms, the consensus here...it is what it is. Would you trade 50 - 60 point monohan for a shot at kane suddenly becoming the all star he could have been pre injuries, scouting reports, or hf consensus? Bad example but similar premise.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Yawn. Get back to me when you can give me a scouting report on Oliver Kylington that isn't from two years ago. Do yourself a favour, watch him play a game of ice hockey, and come back and then tell me he's "the definition of a boom or bust prospect." or"He still cant play much actual defense". Instead of making things up and talking about things that have nothing to do with his current ability to play ice hockey. Right now you're just pointing to a bunch of meaningless things that would suggest Nail Yakupov is more valuable than Colton Parayko.

About the only post in this thread that holds any meaningful value to me would be this one:

I will say that I have watched Kylington in the AHL and he seems to be substantially better than 60th overall in the 2015 draft would lead you to believe, with his talent and skating it seems like he should of been taken in the middle-ish portion of the 1st round. Though assuming Buffalo would trade Nylander taken 8th overall in the most recent draft a few months ago for him, seems entirely outlandish.

And hey, fair enough if someone else, who actually watched play, has a different opinion than me on his value. Not that I really consider Nylander to hold the "exact value" of an 8th overall, as suggested above; since Logan Brown, Tyson Jost, Jacob Chychrun, Dante Fabbro, and Mikhail Sergachev are all better prospects in my personal eyes.

 

[Snippit]

Like I said, a late 2nd round pick from 2015 that's done well since being drafted and is playing like he should have been drafted higher..

We have a guy like that...Brendan Guhle.

You can say Nylander isn't good and think all of those guys like Brown (I don't think you actually watch him play - he's been poor this year when healthy), Jost, Fabbro, et al are better prospects "in your eyes". That's cool - you're allowed to believe whatever you want. Just about every single scout didn't agree with you 4 months ago, though. Keep that in mind.

 

[Snippit]

Nobody besides die hard Flames fans watch Stockton Heat games.

But his production isn't astonishing or anything. 9 points in 18 games. Guhle had 4 points in 6 AHL games, for comparison. Points aren't everything but I find it hard to believe your glasses aren't tinted a little when watching this kid play.

It's funny. It only takes 18 AHL games to increase your stock to be equal to that of a top 10 pick just 4 months ago.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Nobody besides die hard Flames fans watch Stockton Heat games.

But his production isn't astonishing or anything. 9 points in 18 games. Guhle had 4 points in 6 AHL games, for comparison. Points aren't everything but I find it hard to believe your glasses aren't tinted a little when watching this kid play.

It's funny. It only takes 18 AHL games to increase your stock to be equal to that of a top 10 pick just 4 months ago.

Kylington played 47 games in the AHL last season as well as an NHL game. It's hardly based off an 18 game sample size from this season.

 

[Lunatik]

I was really high on Kylington 2 years ago, but it worries me how far he slipped in the draft. This was a guy that was supposed to be a high first rounder.

Unless he miraculously has a turn-around, I wouldn't even consider moving Nylander for him.

How would Flames fans feel about a deal involving Fasching/Bailey +more?

I'm not saying Kylington is worth Nylander, because frankly he's not. But he is also much better IMO than his draft position indicates. There were questions about his work ethic, how coachable he was and his defensive play and it caused him to slip in the draft. Since being drafted he's shown himself to be pretty coachable, his worth ethic has not lacked even a little and his defensive play even on day 1 last season has not been as poor as advertised. I think being bounced around like a racquetball in his draft eligible season really hurt him and his confidence, perhaps he even had a personality conflict with one of the coaches over there, I can't say. But I can say that since he joined the Heat at the start of last year, he's played above his draft position and this year he has taken another step forward.

 

[Lunatik]

Nobody besides die hard Flames fans watch Stockton Heat games.

But his production isn't astonishing or anything. 9 points in 18 games. Guhle had 4 points in 6 AHL games, for comparison. Points aren't everything but I find it hard to believe your glasses aren't tinted a little when watching this kid play.

It's funny. It only takes 18 AHL games to increase your stock to be equal to that of a top 10 pick just 4 months ago.

you mean 65 AHL games right? No one with half a brain is claiming Kylington is worth Nylander, but he is playing above his draft position, I would even say considerably higher.

 

[Dogewow]

The mental gymnastics being done on the first page...yeeesh.

Homerism at it's finest folks.