Confirmed Trade: [BUF/EDM] Ryan McLeod and Tyler Tullio for Matt Savoie

McFlyingV

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Savoie only played 34 games though. Firkus played 63 games.

Including playoffs Savoie was at 1.79PPG / Firkus was a 1.9 PPG
That's true, but I remember a similar thing happening to Draisaitl in the playoffs on a stacked Kelowna Rockets. His regular season ppg dropped from like 1.66 to 1.4 in the playoffs. Impossible to know if Savoie would have done it over the season, and every data point counts, but there's a lot of guys who see a drop in the playoffs in junior especially on stacked teams where they're no longer "the guy" all the time.
 

TommyDangles

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That's true, but I remember a similar thing happening to Draisaitl in the playoffs on a stacked Kelowna Rockets. His regular season ppg dropped from like 1.66 to 1.4 in the playoffs. Impossible to know if Savoie would have done it over the season, and ever data point counts, but there's a lot of guys who see a drop in the playoffs in junior.
When did that happen to Drai? Looks like had 28 points in 19 playoff games & led his team in scoring. You add his regular season & playoffs together it's pretty much about the same. The other 2 years he only played 4 playoff games.
 

bucks_oil

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Aug 25, 2005
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I think my biggest issue with the trade is that to me what McLeod does effectively isn't something that Buffalo is well-positioned to capitalize on. McLeod can at times neutralize play effectively with his reasonably good mobility and puck-carrying ability. which is what the defensive metrics are actually reflecting in my view. As we all saw, that doesn't translate effectively to playoff hockey.

Ok, suppose the Sabres say we're not considered with his playoff shortcomings at this stage, we're just trying to improve the on-ice product (I think that's short-sighted, but whatever). I still don't think what McLeod does well translates. McLeod's ability to neutralize shifts I think was helpful in the Oilers' regular season play, largely because they have an absolutely nuclear top six that allows them to play with a lead more often than most teams. On the Oilers' roster, McLeod was a good fit because his ability to transport the puck on McDavid and Draisaitl's off shifts helped take the sting out of things. Unfortunately, the Thompson and Cozens lines don't have the firepower to put McLeod in those favorable positions nearly as often.

I actually have no issue with them moving Savoie for a "3C", I just think they targeted the completely wrong profile of player. A guy in the Adam Lowry mold (not saying Lowry himself was available) would've been a huge addition for a Buffalo team that needs guys who can contribute effectively in a broader range of situations, and who can compete in the difficult areas of the ice. McLeod has a very narrow range of utility and I don't think this Sabres roster is well-designed to capitalize on it at all, frankly.

Thoughtful post… many are saying McLeod is strong defensively… the metrics say so!

It’s just not true.

1) He’s a great skating puck transporter who who lacks any “final mile” skills to beat defenders 1:1, or to thread a deft pass, or to snipe from distance… so to his credit he has recently learned to recognize his shortcomings and dump the puck.

2) Defensively he’s a puck hound, and elite skating, which makes him great on the backcheck… but

3) he has zero clues and zero balls in his own zone (or in the hard ice pretty much anywhere on the sheet)…

So no he’s not a defensive center man who can contribute 30+ points while playing reliably in his own zone against the opponents best… he’s a dogged skater who offers not much else, but because his skating is elite AND he has recognized his own offensive shortcomings, he plays a simple game of puck retrieval, zone transition and dump….

If you look at the metrics with any semblance of “eye test” that’s what you will immediately see.

Maybe he’ll eventually find his Todd Marchand/Andrew Cogliano moment but I don’t think it’s going to come easy for him… he lacks the level of compete those guys had and frankly lacks the hockey IQ.

Great hockey smile though… good kid and teammate from all accounts.
 
Last edited:

onetweasy

"That's just like, your opinion, man"
Oct 16, 2005
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So many salty people in this thread that absolutely can't get over the fact Edmonton fleeced Buffalo..

"Savoie is not a highly touted prospect lmao"

The funniest part is, the heavy majority of them have never watched the kid play before.

It’s hilarious.

Savoie before the trade was a blue chip prospect. McLeod before the trade was the softest forward in the SCF.

Post trade, Savoie is on bust alert and McLeod is a big, shutdown centre who could take a step with more ice time.
 

McFlyingV

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When did that happen to Drai? Looks like had 28 points in 19 playoff games & led his team in scoring. You add his regular season & playoffs together it's pretty much about the same. The other 2 years he only played 4 playoff games.
53 in 32 regular season vs 28 in 19 is a fairly large point per game difference if you do the math. Not nearly as much as Savoie's difference, but still a sizeable difference.

I could probably find more examples of good NHLers who also saw their production drop in CHL playoffs, I seem to recall this happening to more than a few players in the last 10 years.
 

Reddawg

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Ceci for Strbak incoming.
1720321500570.jpeg
 
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TheNumber4

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I don’t care what a few blue numbers show on charts. Eyeballs are what’s important and you saw how he played. He’s average at best with good speed and he can pk. And buffalo gives up a top 9 pick because they have too many and their GM is in desperation mode. they got absolutely fleeced, man.
It's not just blue numbers. It shows on the ice too. Our Bottom 6 routinely won their battle, got the puck out of our zone and into the opposition's. It's possession time and keeping pucks out of our net. He brought value. Only some offence though and lack of physicality hurt us in the playoffs.

I do think we won the trade on value though. But really, it's unknown until we see how Savoie hits. I like the prospect though, I don't think there's a chance he fails playing for the Oil with our Centers.
 

bucks_oil

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We did not give up a top 9 pick. We traded a guy drafted 2 years ago who had his value drop since. It's really not that hard to understand.

Savoie is still a good prospect, but his value is not even close to that of the 9th pick anymore.

Can you explain this to me?

He just put up > 2ppg in the WHL… that’s rare.

Then he won the memorial cup with > 1ppg

Then he got his first taste of the AHL and scored 5 points in 6 games.

How on earth can you argue his value went down without blushing???!?!!
 

onetweasy

"That's just like, your opinion, man"
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I'm not sure why some can't wrap their head around this....

All the other NHL teams likely see little value in Savoie. He is not big and injury prone, and if he were that good Buffalo would have kept him up his draft year like they did Benson.

Everyone here gets all excited because he was drafted #9 overall and his 2 PPG in WHL, but there are many undrafted players who did just as well in the WHL. There's much more to it than your high draft position and PPG in a teenager league, you're playing with the big boys in the NHL. NHL GMS and Scouts see right through it.

Craig Ludwig has spoken.

Savoie sucks guys. Shut down the thread.
 

TommyDangles

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Can you explain this to me?

He just put up > 2ppg in the WHL… that’s rare.

Then he won the memorial cup with > 1ppg

Then he got his first taste of the AHL and scored 5 points in 6 games.

How on earth can you argue his value went down without blushing???!?!!
He put up 2PPG in a very small sample size. Majority of players are playing 60+ regular season games.

Wasn't even a top 5 player on his team in the playoffs.

Was invisible during WJC while being one of the older players on the team

Failed to make the team meanwhile 18 year old former teammate Benson makes it as a full time player

Suffered injury issues since being drafted

That's why his value went down since being drafted. Again Pronman also mentioned this to be true. His value was not as high as it used to be.
 
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TommyDangles

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53 in 32 regular season vs 28 in 19 is a fairly large point per game difference if you do the math. Not nearly as much as Savoie's difference, but still a sizeable difference.

I could probably find more examples of good NHLers who also saw their production drop in CHL playoffs, I seem to recall this happening to more than a few players in the last 10 years.
Regular season = 1.65 PPG

Combined = 1.59 PPG

Not much of a difference
 

Bryanbryoil

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He put up 2PPG in a very small sample size. Majority of players are playing 60+ regular season games.

Wasn't even a top 5 player on his team in the playoffs.

Was invisible during WJC while being one of the older players on the team

Failed to make the team meanwhile 18 year old former teammate Benson makes it as a full time player

Suffered injury issues since being drafted

That's why his value went down since being drafted. Again Pronman also mentioned this to be true. His value was not as high as it used to be.
How many and which types of injuries? Has he added much muscle mass since being drafted?
 

TommyDangles

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How many and which types of injuries? Has he added much muscle mass since being drafted?
Shoulder injuries.

He was drafted with a shoulder injury. Was out several months in 2022. Missed developmental camp.

Injured shoulder again in 2023. Out for a couple months again.

I'm not sure if he's added muscle mass. I haven't noticed any difference.

Talking regular season vs. playoffs not combined.
If I don't combine them Savoie's difference is drastic.

It would be 2.00 PPG vs 1.26 PPG

Drai would be 1.65 PPG vs. 1.47 PPG
 
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McFlyingV

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Shoulder injuries.

He was drafted with a shoulder injury. Was out several months in 2022. Missed developmental camp.

Injured shoulder again in 2023. Out for a couple months again.

I'm not sure if he's added muscle mass. I haven't noticed any difference.


If I don't combine them Savoie's difference is drastic.

It would be 2.00 PPG vs 1.26 PPG

Drai would be 1.65 PPG vs. 1.47 PPG
I know that. I'm just saying its not unusual for that to happen (maybe not to that extreme) to some players in the CHL playoffs after being moved to a stacked contender.

Regardless he had a hell of a season despite battling injuries. Excited to see how he looks at camp. He'll have a chance to get a much more sheltered role than he ever would have got in Buffalo and with good line mates still. He'll have to impress though to get that opportunity.
 
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Bryanbryoil

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Shoulder injuries.

He was drafted with a shoulder injury. Was out several months in 2022. Missed developmental camp.

Injured shoulder again in 2023. Out for a couple months again.

I'm not sure if he's added muscle mass. I haven't noticed any difference.


If I don't combine them Savoie's difference is drastic.

It would be 2.00 PPG vs 1.26 PPG

Drai would be 1.65 PPG vs. 1.47 PPG
Any idea on whether it was the same shoulder that he's had issues with? Did he ever have surgery on either shoulder? IIRC RNH had a shoulder issue when we drafted him and then it got worse to the point of surgery to end his rookie season prematurely.
 
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TheNumber4

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He put up 2PPG in a very small sample size. Majority of players are playing 60+ regular season games.

Wasn't even a top 5 player on his team in the playoffs.

Was invisible during WJC while being one of the older players on the team

Failed to make the team meanwhile 18 year old former teammate Benson makes it as a full time player

Suffered injury issues since being drafted

That's why his value went down since being drafted. Again Pronman also mentioned this to be true. His value was not as high as it used to be.
34 game sample is not the largest sample, but its not that small. And he put up those numbers on two different teams, speaks to a player who can plug in and just produce due to his ability.

I thought Benson made the team cause Savoie got injured in that camp. No?
 

TommyDangles

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Any idea on whether it was the same shoulder that he's had issues with? Did he ever have surgery on either shoulder? IIRC RNH had a shoulder issue when we drafted him and then it got worse to the point of surgery to end his rookie season prematurely.
Yes both were the left shoulder. One was from a big hit in a WHL game. Other was in a prospects tournament where he went full speed into another player.

He didn't have surgery so it might be something he needs in the future.
 

TommyDangles

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34 game sample is not the largest sample, but its not that small. And he put up those numbers on two different teams, speaks to a player who can plug in and just produce due to his ability.

I thought Benson made the team cause Savoie got injured in that camp. No?
He's very talented & certainly dominated in those 34 games. Was hoping for him to continue in the playoffs, but once things got a bit more physical looked like a different player. Wanted him to be a gamechanger, but that was Firkus/Denton. He kinda just looked like one of the guys. Was honestly impressed by Calvert more than him who didn't even get drafted.

Benson made the team because he outplayed everyone. Made it very hard for Adams to send him back. Savoie had moments, but I doubt he was going to make the roster. He had another chance to make the team but didn't look great in practice per our beat reporters.
 

Steve Kournianos

@thedraftanalyst
Good trade for both teams. The Sabres are loaded with skill at the center position and Helenius pushed Savoie further down the depth chart after Kulich and Ostlund already did so. I was a big Savoie fan but I didn't like the fact that Benson was outplaying both him and Geekie when it mattered. He's going to get plenty of time to flourish as a 1C in Bakersfield, which wasn't the case in Rochester. Getting McLeod and Malenstyn may seem unspectacular, but they make the Sabres a tougher team to play against and that wasn't the case during a bizarre season where the effort level wavered from game to game. There's still a chance the Oilers win this trade long-term, but it's a smart move by Adams. Thirteen years is too goddamn long and it was time to take bigger risks.
 

AuraSphere

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One thing people are probably ignoring is that Matt Savoie is from Edmonton and maybe made it clear to Buffalo he wants to be there long term. Regardless I think the value they got back was way too little.... but sounds like Savoie maybe had them by the balls
 

TheNumber4

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One thing people are probably ignoring is that Matt Savoie is from Edmonton and maybe made it clear to Buffalo he wants to be there long term. Regardless I think the value they got back was way too little.... but sounds like Savoie maybe had them by the balls
The rare Edmonton Pajama Boy? I'll take it.

He's very talented & certainly dominated in those 34 games. Was hoping for him to continue in the playoffs, but once things got a bit more physical looked like a different player. Wanted him to be a gamechanger, but that was Firkus/Denton. He kinda just looked like one of the guys. Was honestly impressed by Calvert more than him who didn't even get drafted.

Benson made the team because he outplayed everyone. Made it very hard for Adams to send him back. Savoie had moments, but I doubt he was going to make the roster. He had another chance to make the team but didn't look great in practice per our beat reporters.
Interesting. His 22-23 playoffs looked more productive. I'll have to find a report on that playoff run. Maybe it showed more of who he will actually be as a player. I watched a shift by shift of one of his playoff games though, looked pretty darn good.

Ah okay. Benson looks to be a good player. j
 
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