NESN Bruins Pondering Joe Thornton’s Fit On Roster

[Fenway]

I believe Fenway had a good appraisal of Thornton's departure somewhere in these threads. It wasn't a media smear.

Looking back at the Globe of December 1, 2005, the harshest column against Joe was by Jackie MacMullin

But it is what happened in the afternoon the day after the trade that sent shockwaves - Glenn Ordway got Jeremy Jacobs on the phone.

Jacobs was angry and admitted he was behind the trade and he questioned Thornton's heart. For many of us, it was the first time we had heard him on the air as he usually only gave print interviews. At the time of the trade both teams STUNK

The Bruins on that day had become irrelevant in Boston. They had an embarrassing playoff ouster in April of 2004 and then vanished for 18 months. The Red Sox had won a World Series, the Pats had won back to back Super Bowls and the Celtics were a .500 team.

Jacobs had promised a contending team for 2005-06 but Harry Sinden and Mike O'Connell totally misread the landscape. Meanwhile, Charlie had arrived and reported back to Papa that Harry had to go.

It was a bad time as fans hated the building and attendance plummeted.

5 years later they won the Cup. Would they have won in 2011 if Joe was still here

 

[Alicat]

it was a false choice, though. Bergeron was 19 and there was no reason to rush him.

They could have kept Joe and still signed Chara and made him the C. They went out & signed Savard and that didn't hold Bergeron back. Hell, missing a whole season and then basically being the 3rd line C for a year didn't hold him back either. Bergeron was an instant legend who wouldn't be denied. There's no reason to believe having Joe in the lineup would have held back Bergeron. If anything, having such a steady 1st line center like Thornton would have made the Bergeron concussion years a lot less difficult. the idea that Bergeron needed the Thornton trade to happen so that he could become the player he became is just false IMO...no offense intended.

Joe vs Savard is the real choice here and I think in the long run you can make a case for Joe, but obviously with the benefit of hindsight and knowing the butterfly effect I wouldn't change anything and risk giving up that Cup.

I don't think it was.

I do agree that the argument probably should be Joe vs. Savard

 

[LouJersey]

Like I said....smear campaign.

Joe Thornton was a cancer? Really?

That's a pretty liberal use of the word, don't you think?

Joe's teams lost two series they were favored in, or about a dozen less than Ray Bourque, another captain who never brought a title to Beantown.

 

[Alicat]

The Bruins traded Joe for 3 players.Sturm Stuart and Primeau.

I am well aware of who Joe was traded for

 

[22Brad Park]

I am well aware of who Joe was traded for

Bruins were fleeced on it.The 3 of them together could not carry his jock strap

 

[Alicat]

Bruins were fleeced on it.The 3 of them together could not carry his jock strap

The discussion was around why he was traded not who he was traded for.

 

[bearcountry17]

Joe Thornton would be a great fit for the Bottom 6. I know the guy is slow but his hockey IQ and playmaking ability is better than anyone else in our bottom 6 and he plays with more of an edge than most on the roster. The dude answered the bell, old school buckets off, with Tom Wilson after a dirty hit on Oshie not that long ago, I don't think there is a forward on the current roster who would do that.

The guy is coming off a 4g-6a-10p in 19gp playoffs in which 9 of those points were at even strength. He was playing mainly 3rd line and had more ES points in less games than every Bruin minus Coyle(12), Kuraly(10), Marchand(10), and Pastrnak(10).

The lack of offence at 5 on 5 was the #1 reason the Bruins didn't win the cup last year. Look no further than their 3rd and 4th line centers leading their ES offence. As soon as we stopped getting PPs we were toast. Thorton would also be a great guy to fill in if either Krejci or Bergeron get injured so you can keep Kuraly on the 4th line where he does his best.

 

[RoccoF14]

Looking back at the Globe of December 1, 2005, the harshest column against Joe was by Jackie MacMullin

But it is what happened in the afternoon the day after the trade that sent shockwaves - Glenn Ordway got Jeremy Jacobs on the phone.

Jacobs was angry and admitted he was behind the trade and he questioned Thornton's heart. For many of us, it was the first time we had heard him on the air as he usually only gave print interviews. At the time of the trade both teams STUNK

The Bruins on that day had become irrelevant in Boston. They had an embarrassing playoff ouster in April of 2004 and then vanished for 18 months. The Red Sox had won a World Series, the Pats had won back to back Super Bowls and the Celtics were a .500 team.

Jacobs had promised a contending team for 2005-06 but Harry Sinden and Mike O'Connell totally misread the landscape. Meanwhile, Charlie had arrived and reported back to Papa that Harry had to go.

It was a bad time as fans hated the building and attendance plummeted.

5 years later they won the Cup. Would they have won in 2011 if Joe was still here


View attachment 319357

View attachment 319355

You know, I see a LOT of similarities between Joe Thornton's time in Boston and what Jack Eichel is going through in Buffalo right now.

I just don't see Buffalo trading him for peanuts and calling him gutless and lazy after he's gone......

 

[22Brad Park]

The discussion was around why he was traded not who he was traded for.

Well from where I stand it was a bad trade.Maybe if they had of actially let other teams know they would have gotten fair value and won multiple Cups down the road.Wilson called about Samsonov hung up with Joe.Anyways I concede this conversation cause its all in the past .Just the talk of bringing him back sparks a riot

 

[DGS]

I know there's a lot of baggage to discuss in all this, but:

Timo Meier > reasonable payment of spare change/non-core players
Jumbo Joe > Backes

Team=Better

What the hell? Let's do it.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Joe's teams lost two series they were favored in, or about a dozen less than Ray Bourque, another captain who never brought a title to Beantown.

it's insane how unfair it was that Joe took the blame for those teams falling short. I think those teams overachieved in the regular season in large part thanks to Joe. That they failed in the playoffs shouldn't have fallen on him.

In hindsight it's so incredibly obvious that those teams never had a prayer with the spare parts they had on D (not to mention their lack of reliable goaltending). I think it would have been really interesting to see Chiarelli build the team he did with Joe in the mix as a central piece. Joe never had a D corps in Boston anything even remotely close to what they had in 2008, let alone 2011. It's so easy for Bruins fans to say that Bergeron is a winner and Joe is a loser when you ignore the fact that Bergeron had prime Zdeno Chara and Tim Thomas while Thornton had Kyle McLaren and Byron Dafoe/Steve Shields/John Grahame/Jeff Hackett

 

[bearcountry17]

And choking Joe couldn’t lead a team to a cup, it was a wash.

Joe Thorton not being able to replicate his regular season dominance as the #1 center of his team in the playoffs is not a concern for the Bruins. He's a bottom 6 option and his last few trips to the PO's have been better or equal to what either Coyle or Johansson had done up to last year. And he only makes 2 million on an expiring deal. You add one of Kreider/Palmieri/Toffoli and Thorton and you go into the playoffs with a better roster than you did last year.

 

[Alicat]

Well from where I stand it was a bad trade.Maybe if they had of actially let other teams know they would have gotten fair value and won multiple Cups down the road.Wilson called about Samsonov hung up with Joe.Anyways I concede this conversation cause its all in the past .Just the talk of bringing him back sparks a riot

I didn't like him then and I'm meh on him now.

 

[22Brad Park]

I didn't like him then and I'm meh on him now.

And you are allowed that opinion.We all have players we like and not like.

 

[LouJersey]

it's insane how unfair it was that Joe took the blame for those teams falling short. I think those teams overachieved in the regular season in large part thanks to Joe. That they failed in the playoffs shouldn't have fallen on him.

In hindsight it's so incredibly obvious that those teams never had a prayer with the spare parts they had on D (not to mention their lack of reliable goaltending). I think it would have been really interesting to see Chiarelli build the team he did with Joe in the mix as a central piece. Joe never had a D corps in Boston anything even remotely close to what they had in 2008, let alone 2011. It's so easy for Bruins fans to say that Bergeron is a winner and Joe is a loser when you ignore the fact that Bergeron had prime Zdeno Chara and Tim Thomas while Thornton had Kyle McLaren and Byron Dafoe/Steve Shields/John Grahame/Jeff Hackett

Yep it was a travesty. Joe's whole "knock" was his laid back personality his draft year, yet the Bruins took him then held it against him, even though it didn't mean squat. Bruins stink, of course, Joe doesn't give a **** that's why.

Ray Bourque was on very good teams when he first started. When it became "his team" they promptly got knocked out of 4 straight first rounds. Had that great run of two cups and two ECF in four years, then won 3 rounds in his next seven seasons, never getting past round 2.

he won 15 play-off rounds in 19 years on the Bruins. Thornton won 14 play-off rounds in 12 years on the Sharks.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

To BOS: Timo Meier, Joe Thornton, and Brendan Dillon
To SJS: Danton Heinen, Urho Vaakanainen, David Backes, 2020 1st Round Pick, 2021 2nd Round Pick

To BOS: Tyler Toffoli
To LAK: John Moore, 2020 2nd Round Pick

Marchand -- Bergeron -- Pastrnak
Meier -- Krejci -- Toffoli
DeBrusk -- Coyle -- Bjork
Kuraly -- Thornton -- Wagner
Lindholm/Nordstrom

Chara -- McAvoy
Krug -- Carlo
Grzelcyk -- Dillon
Lauzon

Rask
Halak

#Duckboats

 

[LouJersey]

And choking Joe couldn’t lead a team to a cup, it was a wash.

and yet somehow he's 41st all time in play-off scoring.

 

[Smitty93]

Let's see who takes it from here though and puts it out there in the twitterverse.

I love when that **** happens.

Can we take a poll?

I think we need to get the odds up on the HF Sportsbook on which Bruins writer will get it up first. @Fenway can you facilitate that?

 

[RoccoF14]

There you go again, Lou.

Ruining another perfectly good fallacy with facts and numbers......ppppppfffffftttt!

 

[Sheppy]

To BOS: Timo Meier, Joe Thornton, and Brendan Dillon
To SJS: Danton Heinen, Urho Vaakanainen, David Backes, 2020 1st Round Pick, 2021 2nd Round Pick

To BOS: Tyler Toffoli
To LAK: John Moore, 2020 2nd Round Pick

Marchand -- Bergeron -- Pastrnak
Meier -- Krejci -- Toffoli
DeBrusk -- Coyle -- Bjork
Kuraly -- Thornton -- Wagner
Lindholm/Nordstrom

Chara -- McAvoy
Krug -- Carlo
Grzelcyk -- Dillon
Lauzon

Rask
Halak

#Duckboats

I don't hate it, but watching Joe try to set up Kuraly & Wagner might give me an aneurysm.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

and yet somehow he's 41st all time in play-off scoring.

Total dish master in the postseason.

102 assists / 179 games

Problem is that he can't find the back of the net in the postseason at all. The most he ever scored on a postseason run was 4 goals.... Which is funny because for how long his career has been, he did that the most recent trip.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I don't hate it, but watching Joe try to set up Kuraly & Wagner might give me an aneurysm.

It might give Joe an aneurysm too. Imagine Thornton feeding Wagner in the 3rd period of a 2-2 Game 7, and he fans on it like he did in DET?

 

[BlackFrancis]

and yet somehow he's 41st all time in play-off scoring.

Points per games played takes Joe out to the woodshed and does unspeakable things to him.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

It might give Joe an aneurysm too. Imagine Thornton feeding Wagner in the 3rd period of a 2-2 Game 7, and he fans on it like he did in DET?

If the Bruins get Thornton at the deadline Wagner will catch up to Acciari before the playoffs start.

 

[RoccoF14]

To BOS: Timo Meier, Joe Thornton, and Brendan Dillon
To SJS: Danton Heinen, Urho Vaakanainen, David Backes, 2020 1st Round Pick, 2021 2nd Round Pick

To BOS: Tyler Toffoli
To LAK: John Moore, 2020 2nd Round Pick

Marchand -- Bergeron -- Pastrnak
Meier -- Krejci -- Toffoli
DeBrusk -- Coyle -- Bjork
Kuraly -- Thornton -- Wagner
Lindholm/Nordstrom

Chara -- McAvoy
Krug -- Carlo
Grzelcyk -- Dillon
Lauzon

Rask
Halak

#Duckboats

Well I’ll say this.

You are DEFINITELY pushing all your chips into the pot with that move.