Bruins old and slow? Check the stats!

[CanadienShark]

Obviously you jumped in the middle of an argument. Can you explain what is so funny? Usually laughing during a disagreement is a sign of a mental disorder.

You can't just make baseless claims and expect people to engage with you. I took the most recent season we just had and noticed that the best winger in the world just battled in his early 30s for his best season against the Hart winner that is knocking on 30 himself. Players like Sedin and Marty St.Louis won Art Ross trophies and became their best version in their early 30s. Most players are extremely productive into their early 30s, and its just an observation.


So if you are going to post otherwise, and want to illustrate that Pasta is old for a winger is unlikely to continue to post some of his best years going forward, you might need to actually support that argument.


Well, we aren't talking about that. Early 30s is what is being mentioned. Pasta is 28, and I can guarantee you if you polled people they would bet Pasta will maintain his pace over the next 5 years, and even post a career year in there somewhere, rather than show signs of decline.

I don't think you're in any place to "diagnose" any mental disorders. Frankly, such a comment really says more about you than anything.

You're citing outliers and claiming it's the norm. That's simply not based in reality. There's literal stats to back this up, which you continue to ignore.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Your last sentence was Litterally the whole point lol.

That poster got strangely upset when people pointed out that Columbus doesn’t get the same draw of the bigger markets.

Despite it being an indisputable fact

Thats fair, and I know the poster double downed. I was just pushing back on some of the more over the top comments, like Bank Shot claiming Columbus is an undesirable market. Its still an east coast time zone city and is far from 'undesirable' and most of its drawbacks revolve around hockey not being very big there and the ownership group being very cheap.

I don't think you're in any place to "diagnose" any mental disorders. Frankly, such a comment really says more about you than anything.

Triggered.

You're citing outliers and claiming it's the norm. That's simply not based in reality. There's literal stats to back this up, which you continue to ignore.

I am citing the most relevant data, which is looking at current NHLers. You have posted absolutely no stats whatsoever, let alone ones that 'back it up'

There really should be a forum rule for such blatant lying.

 

[CanadienShark]

Thats fair, and I know the poster double downed. I was just pushing back on some of the more over the top comments, like Bank Shot claiming Columbus is an undesirable market. Its still an east coast time zone city and is far from 'undesirable' and most of its drawbacks revolve around hockey not being very big there and the ownership group being very cheap.


Triggered.

I am citing the most relevant data, which is looking at current NHLers. You have posted absolutely no stats whatsoever, let alone ones that 'back it up'

There really should be a forum rule for such blatant lying.

You do appear to be. You've cited two outliers as relevant, recent examples. How about Ovechkin? Or Kovalchuk? Selanne? Since you've now started talking about the Sedins.

You've ignored @tarheelhockey posts citing stats.

Get over yourself and maybe take a step back. You've jumped from "disagreements" to now talking about "forum rules for lying."

In case you're unaware... You've been violating site rules on personal attacks.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

You do appear to be. You've cited two outliers as relevant, recent examples.

At least I posted a stat. I posted outliers to illustrate how silly it is to say a 28 year old winger is aging. Its likely Pasta sets the world on fire for the next few years, not declines.

How about Ovechkin?

Amazing in his early 30s.

Or Kovalchuk?

Left the NHL and didn't play in his early 30s in North America.

Selanne?

That guy retired 10 years ago. But he did win a Rocket at 29, and was effective in his early 30s before injuries. I didn't see a 'natural decline' at 30.

Since you've now started talking about the Sedins.

At least I am bringing up stats, and not claiming to have brought up stats that I didn't bring up.

You've ignored @tarheelhockey posts citing stats.

I didn't feel those stats supported the argument, just like you don't think Kucherov posting his best season at 32 supported my argument.

To be clear, @tarheelhockey, who is definitely not your alternate account that you forgot you posted the stats from, posted these stats, right? You haven't posted a single stat, correct?

 

[CanadienShark]

At least I posted a stat. I posted outliers to illustrate how silly it is to say a 28 year old winger is aging. Its likely Pasta sets the world on fire for the next few years, not declines.

Amazing in his early 30s.

Left the NHL and didn't play in his early 30s in North America.

That guy retired 10 years ago. But he did win a Rocket at 29, and was effective in his early 30s before injuries. I didn't see a 'natural decline' at 30.

At least I am bringing up stats, and not claiming to have brought up stats that I didn't bring up.

I didn't feel those stats supported the argument, just like you don't think Kucherov posting his best season at 32 supported my argument.

To be clear, @tarheelhockey, who is definitely not your alternate account that you forgot you posted the stats from, posted these stats, right? You haven't posted a single stat, correct?

Ovechkin peaked earlier in his career. Kovalchuk also peaked earlier. Selanne too. You brought up the Sedins, so these guys are also relevant to that point. You're missing the point or just trying to change the argument to suit your purpose. I've made it very clear that NOBODY says he's going to fall off a cliff, but you can't possibly EXPECT him to get better and better. You are fighting a losing battle here and can't stick to the topic.

And again, you want to complain about site rules? Maybe you should follow existing ones before suggesting new ones.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Ridiculous goal post moving, and your claims of posting stats that support your argument are silly at best.

The numbers are what they are. Again, I posted one link but the numbers are easily available from multiple sources. You can re-run the numbers if you want, but they’ll look the same. It’s just a statistical fact that in the NHL, individual scoring peaks out around 24/25 and falls slightly till 28, then drops off steadily.

If you want to argue against math, be my guest.

You even bring up Jagr after all that? He had two of his best seasons at 29 and 34 years old where he won the Art Ross and the Pearson in respective years.

Jagr was 28 for most of that last Art Ross year. But the point is, even during those seasons he wasn’t at the level of his peak from 22-28, when he won 5 Rosses and a Hart (and very nearly 3 more Harts) in 7 years.

Nobody’s saying that a player can’t still be good as he ages. Obviously a Hart winner is probably going to still be pretty good past 30. But he will almost certainly not be what he used to be. Which is why there are very, very few cases of a winger playing at a Hart level or scoring at a Ross level after 30.

Pasta being 28 with plenty of his best years ahead of him makes your comment about the Bruins best players being old look ridiculous, but you just can't admit you are wrong so you have to say plenty more off the wall stuff and you can't even be bothered to fact check your comments.

We can settle this easily enough. Just watch him over the next few years and see if he maintains this level without a falloff. The odds heavily favor my side of that argument, no matter how many times you throw around words like “silly” and “ridiculous” to describe a near-ubiquitous reality in the NHL.

 

[Score08]

If pasta a was a ufa, what would be his market value?

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Nobody’s saying that a player can’t still be good as he ages. Obviously a Hart winner is probably going to still be pretty good past 30. But he will almost certainly not be what he used to be. Which is why there are very, very few cases of a winger playing at a Hart level or scoring at a Ross level after 30.

Kucherov - Hart Finalist at 32
RNH - Best season at 30
Marchand - Best season and 5th in Hart voting at 32
Kane - Top 5 scoring finish at age 32 and won ESPY
Panarin - Career best season, outperformed his Hart finalist season at 32

That is only mentioning wingers and only mentioning the last 3-4 years. I just think you have taken an extreme position on this, and I wanted to push back. It is pretty clear that modern NHL players are still likely to be performing at their best in their early 30s. To make it seem like such a rarity just seems odd.

I will concede that is unlikely they will perform at their absolute peak in the regular season, but I think that has more to do with pacing themselves. I would like to see a proper analysis done, because it seems like its more common for players have better postseason performances in their late 20s versus their early 20s.