Proposal: Bruins-Hurricanes

[Blitzago*]

Did you even bother reading my post before you responded???? I clearly said that Pastrnak would be used as " the main piece " in a deal to get back a top pairing blueliner. This means that there would be other pieces included therefore Pastrnak is not considered to be as valuable as a top pairing Defenseman. Man this thread is going to give me a freaking ulcer.

That's the problem, he would not be a main piece in a trade for Lindholm or other young top pairing D men.

 

[BadBruins]

It was really only one poster, not the entire fanbase.

I said "a package" for a D like Lindholm. As in one of the main pieces on the Bruins end. It's been discussed at length, especially on the Bruins board with regards to acquiring a young D such as Trouba, Lindholm, Fowler etc. I would wager most agree with me in that sense. Even if it's not a realistic premise. There are some who would even choose to simply wait and roll the dice with the 1st and 2nd rounders from the past couple drafts in McAvoy, Zboril, Lauzon, Carlo, Lindgren. That could be like four or five years before we start to see any, if any, of them start paying off.

Pastrnak is the best asset in the Bruins organization outside of Bergeron. If you deal him, you better get back a good young top pairing D.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

gms make 'bad' trades all the time so us hf posters have to stop saying we will only trade X for Y

honestly, none of us know that.

on the other hand we can all give our own evaluation as a fan. the origional poster made a deal way too compicated. no gm is going to feel secure enough to touch this type of deal... at least not unless the players involved become contract problems or unhappy with their roles

so right off the bat it becomes pointless to argue value

there are very few fans that watch other teams play more than a handful of times... and usually arent focused on the other team... so very few fans can ever judge other players by anything more than reputation and bias

of course its always human nature to always overrate your own sparkly shinny kids for as long as they maintain their shinny sparkle.

is value fair here? i cant say... i dont know the carolina kids... if carolina is happy keeping them, than i imagine they are good

boston fans are probably ok trading spooner for a top 3 dman. boston has enough 4 and lower dmen. boston fans wouldnt want to trade pastrnak for anything shy of a top 2 dman.

how good is lindholm looking now? is he projecting to be tuomo ruuta 2.0?

how badly does carolina need scoring help?

i dont know enough to answer my questions but i do know the op is too complicated without more compelling motivation so its a non starter

speaking as a bruin fan i prefer to keep pastrnak. in 5 years i might kick myself, but i do believe hes going to be a 2way responsible 30-40-70 type winger. bruins always develop our kids slow... thornton, seguin, wheeler, kessel all started slower than pastrnak. last kid we had that was thrown to the wolves so quickly was bergeron.

hes a keeper

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

And I'm telling you that no Pastrnak could not be used as a main piece to get a top pairing dman. Especially a guy like Lindholm who has already proven himself far more than Pastrnak. Unless that main piece includes a BIG plus.

For gods sake the oilers had to give up Hall to get Larsson, did you forget that?

as hall gets left off team canada we begin to understand real hockey people have a problem with him... personally i dont get it. i like hall alot.

when boston dealt thornton... the league mvp... we got back brad stuart and change...

is this because the league mvp is worth brad stuart? or because joe thornton had warts from how the boston situation left a stink on him?

sometimes very highly paid guys get a low trade value stuck on them when their pr turns sour.

remember boston just dealt dougie hamilton... and didnt get a ppg forward in return. seth jones fetched back a guy with a very colorful reputation too.

trades are made between 2 teams... and establish value those 2 teams agree upon. trades dont bind anyone else to value. every single poster here can judge trades and we will say at least 50% are 1sided.

thats reality. for us to sit here and shootdown fantasy proposals is saying that one sided trades dont happen... but reality says they do

we all should temper our opinions... try to remember we speak only for ourselves.

real gms do crap we dont agree with all the time

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I said "a package" for a D like Lindholm. As in one of the main pieces on the Bruins end. It's been discussed at length, especially on the Bruins board with regards to acquiring a young D such as Trouba, Lindholm, Fowler etc. I would wager most agree with me in that sense. Even if it's not a realistic premise. There are some who would even choose to simply wait and roll the dice with the 1st and 2nd rounders from the past couple drafts in McAvoy, Zboril, Lauzon, Carlo, Lindgren. That could be like four or five years before we start to see any, if any, of them start paying off.

Pastrnak is the best asset in the Bruins organization outside of Bergeron. If you deal him, you better get back a good young top pairing D.

For a guy like Lindholm unless that other main piece is another untouchable then no. The fact that you site other bruins fans as a reason to believe that this could happen says a lot, the fact that no other fan of other teams seems to agree with you speaks volumes.

 

[BadBruins]

For a guy like Lindholm unless that other main piece is another untouchable then no. The fact that you site other bruins fans as a reason to believe that this could happen says a lot, the fact that no other fan of other teams seems to agree with you speaks volumes.

I think you are missing the point entirely.

Everyone understands that young D Lindholm are premium assets and you're going to have to pay through the nose to get one.

The only scenario in which it makes any sense whatsoever to trade Pastrnak is in some kind of exchange for a young top pairing D. That is not saying Pastrnak = Lindholm. He's the top young player in the organization. The best asset next to Bergeron. Hugely valuable. The prized piece. The only reason you would put him in play is to acquire that level of D. No offense to the Carolina guys. I'm sure they are swell players, but they don't reach that standard for me.

Personally I would have taken the jump on Trouba with an off-sheet. Give up 4 1st. Hope to recoup some picks later. You aren't going to pry that player away without making a difficult choice.

 

[BostonBob]

For a guy like Lindholm unless that other main piece is another untouchable then no. The fact that you site other bruins fans as a reason to believe that this could happen says a lot, the fact that no other fan of other teams seems to agree with you speaks volumes.

I just love this argument. Because some of the posters here agree with you that must prove that Bruin fans are wrong. I guarantee that if a bunch of fans from other teams came on here agreeing with our POV then you would have said that the opinion of fans doesn't really matter when it comes to making trades. By the way - if you are a Canuck fan why do you even care about a proposed trade between Boston and Carolina ????

 

[OConnellsProtege]

For a guy like Lindholm unless that other main piece is another untouchable then no. The fact that you site other bruins fans as a reason to believe that this could happen says a lot, the fact that no other fan of other teams seems to agree with you speaks volumes.

Technically, Sweeney has said he wasn't trading Pastrnak which pretty much makes him untouchable. And in terms of it ever happening, worst trades have happened in the past. In my opinion, I can't see this happening but that doesn't mean squat.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I just love this argument. Because some of the posters here agree with you that must prove that Bruin fans are wrong. I guarantee that if a bunch of fans from other teams came on here agreeing with our POV then you would have said that the opinion of fans doesn't really matter when it comes to making trades. By the way - if you are a Canuck fan why do you even care about a proposed trade between Boston and Carolina ????

The fact that the only people that agree with you is telling, if you can't understand that I don't know what to tell ya, its a pretty simple and basic argument. You have no idea how I would comment if it was the other way around, great assumption by the way

As for the second part this is trade board I comment on many different trades, I was not aware that I should only be commenting on things involving my team...

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I think you are missing the point entirely.

Everyone understands that young D Lindholm are premium assets and you're going to have to pay through the nose to get one.

The only scenario in which it makes any sense whatsoever to trade Pastrnak is in some kind of exchange for a young top pairing D. That is not saying Pastrnak = Lindholm. He's the top young player in the organization. The best asset next to Bergeron. Hugely valuable. The prized piece. The only reason you would put him in play is to acquire that level of D. No offense to the Carolina guys. I'm sure they are swell players, but they don't reach that standard for me.

Personally I would have taken the jump on Trouba with an off-sheet. Give up 4 1st. Hope to recoup some picks later. You aren't going to pry that player away without making a difficult choice.

Your missing the point, Pastrnak is one of your most valuable pieces, I would never deny this kid looks like a stud, but teams don't trade top paring Dmen for guys that are almost all potential, it doesn't happen. The oilers had to give up an elite (already proven) top line W, to get a guy that at this point is only top 4. In the case of Lindholm he has already established himself, far more than Pastrnak, and once again he is a Dman, which historically are more valuable that W, we all know this.

Look I understand that you guys value Pastrnak quite a bit and it would take an overpayment to get him out of Boston, fine. Just leave it at overpayment.

 

[BostonBob]

As for the second part this is trade board I comment on many different trades, I was not aware that I should only be commenting on things involving my team...

I never said you couldn't comment in this thread but I do wonder why you seem so gung ho in continually telling Boston fans that they are wrong when the proposed trade doesn't involve your team. In other words - you don't have a horse in this race so why do you seem to care so much ????

 

[nmbr_24]

<30 points playing 7th most minutes Ev and an insignificant amount on special teams; sure sounds like a 3rd liner I know he's young and can obviously improve but so is/can Slavin(who played #3 minutes last year ahead of even Hanifin).

If it's that black and white then Slavin is better than Hanifin too because he had more time on ice and Hanifin is a bottom pairing D because of his ice time. That is the logic you are using. It's obvious that Hanifin is not a bottom pairing D and that Pastrnak is not a 3rd liner.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I never said you couldn't comment in this thread but I do wonder why you seem so gung ho in continually telling Boston fans that they are wrong when the proposed trade doesn't involve your team. In other words - you don't have a horse in this race so why do you seem to care so much ????

Again its a free board I can comment on any trade I want, that's what makes this fun, the fact that we can argue with each other. Again am I only supposed to care about proposed trades involving my team? LOL I have never seen anybody insinuate this, is my logic too much for you to handle?

I'm watching the Pats, Texans game right now, should I stop because neither are my team? LOL I mean I don't have a horse in that race either right?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If it's that black and white then Slavin is better than Hanifin too because he had more time on ice and Hanifin is a bottom pairing D because of his ice time. That is the logic you are using. It's obvious that Hanifin is not a bottom pairing D and that Pastrnak is not a 3rd liner.

Um....as a Canes fan, Slavin was quite a bit better than Hanifin this year, and it really wasn't even that close. Granted, Slavin was 21 and Hanifin was 18/19, but there's no denying that Slavin was substantially better this past season. Canes sheltered Hanifin (and rightly so) this past season.

 

[MMC]

Were not trading you Lindholm or Fowler with Pasta as the main piece bro

 

[BadBruins]

Your missing the point, Pastrnak is one of your most valuable pieces, I would never deny this kid looks like a stud, but teams don't trade top paring Dmen for guys that are almost all potential, it doesn't happen. The oilers had to give up an elite (already proven) top line W, to get a guy that at this point is only top 4. In the case of Lindholm he has already established himself, far more than Pastrnak, and once again he is a Dman, which historically are more valuable that W, we all know this.

Look I understand that you guys value Pastrnak quite a bit and it would take an overpayment to get him out of Boston, fine. Just leave it at overpayment.

No. I think we're both in agreement with regards to the cost it takes acquire young top pairing D.

The point that seems to be missed is that dealing Pastrnak only makes sense under one very specific scenario. One in which the Bruins get back a young top-pairing D. That's from the Bruins perspective of where they are as an organization from top to bottom. I think we can all agree 1 for 1, that is not a realistic scenario. Therefore, you are left with one other option... A much bigger and more complex package. Still might be unrealistic, but at least plausible.

It's why player movement and blockbuster trades are rare. Can't just attempt to equal out both sides. If the Bruins don't get what they want (or the ducks/canes for that matter), there's no point. I'm sure there are a number of trades the Bruins would theoretically reject even if they were equal/over payment. That is not overvaluing Pastrnak. That is being in touch current organizational needs.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

No. I think we're both in agreement with regards to the cost it takes acquire young top pairing D.

The point that seems to be missed is that dealing Pastrnak only makes sense under one very specific scenario. One in which the Bruins get back a young top-pairing D. That's from the Bruins perspective of where they are as an organization from top to bottom. I think we can all agree 1 for 1, that is not a realistic scenario. Therefore, you are left with one other option... A much bigger and more complex package. Still might be unrealistic, but at least plausible.

It's why player movement and blockbuster trades are rare. Can't just attempt to equal out both sides. If the Bruins don't get what they want (or the ducks/canes for that matter), there's no point. I'm sure there are a number of trades the Bruins would theoretically reject even if they were equal/over payment. That is not overvaluing Pastrnak. That is being in touch current organizational needs.

Like I said overpayment fine, still though no team with a young top pairing dman trades said dman for a winger with potential as the main piece. That's my only point.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

If the Bruins ever get offered Slavin for Pasta straight up they should take it and run.

The Bruins can do better with Pastrnak.

 

[Homesick]

Did you even bother reading my post before you responded???? I clearly said that Pastrnak would be used as " the main piece " in a deal to get back a top pairing blueliner. This means that there would be other pieces included therefore Pastrnak is not considered to be as valuable as a top pairing Defenseman. Man this thread is going to give me a freaking ulcer.

I'm sure teams are dying to give up a top pairing D for injury prone 30 point wingers and scraps

I never said you couldn't comment in this thread but I do wonder why you seem so gung ho in continually telling Boston fans that they are wrong when the proposed trade doesn't involve your team. In other words - you don't have a horse in this race so why do you seem to care so much ????

Maybe its because he doesn't have a Pastrnak poster on his bedroom wall so he's a little less biased

The Bruins can do better with Pastrnak.

OK then tell me what team(and their fanbase) would give up a player better than Jaccob Slavin for Pastrnak

*crickets

 

[wintersej]

Were not trading you Lindholm or Fowler with Pasta as the main piece bro

You are going to be bummed with the Fowler return bro.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

You are going to be bummed with the Fowler return bro.

Yah it's not like teams put a premium on top 4 D right.....

 

[Kitchener Boy]

If the Bruins ever get offered Slavin for Pasta straight up they should take it and run.

Zero chance Bruins are interested in such a trade.

 

[bearcountry17]

I'm sure teams are dying to give up a top pairing D for injury prone 30 point wingers and scraps

Maybe its because he doesn't have a Pastrnak poster on his bedroom wall so he's a little less biased

OK then tell me what team(and their fanbase) would give up a player better than Jaccob Slavin for Pastrnak

*crickets

I love your use of hyperbole, is Mcdavid an injury prone 50 point player?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Were not trading you Lindholm or Fowler with Pasta as the main piece bro

Lindholm probably not unless an established player comes too. Fowler? I'd be surprised if you even get a player like Pasta, let alone as a package.

 

[Chan790]

Bruins fans have an unrealistic valuation to what Pastrnak is actually worth in terms of a D-man trade. Slavin, who is almost certainly a top-4 D and has top-pair upside, is pretty much par to what you could get for him...if you can find a GM looking for offensive potential enough to be willing to move proven young D. (Most won't.)

In terms of adding to Pasta to get a bona fide top-pair D...the add is worth more than Pastrnak. Substantially more, he's not the main piece of any such offer. At his peak, he's not going to be worth a top-pair defenseman. To extrapolate out Pasta's peak career worth, look at a guy like Jeff Skinner, another offensively-gifted injury-prone wing; just because they're one of the more-valuable assets on your team doesn't mean they're worth enough to put you in the negotiations for the assets you want. :/