Player Discussion Brock Boeser - Brock Around the Clock

[MS]

The statement wasn't incorrect at the time. Boeser had been garbage 3 of 4 years and the team couldn't even give him away - got the agent involved and they still couldn't unload him.

If he's actually doing the required things off the ice to succeed and is in shape and willing to compete, that's fantastic. I'd be delighted to eat crow on this.

But as I said in other threads, I'm not doing I-told-you-sos about things I'm looking right about after 10 games because that's how you make yourself look like an idiot. And I probably won't do them at all because I'm not 12 years old.

Boeser's 10-game blip here is encouraging. But he has to be good for a LOT longer than this to be given the benefit of the doubt after the sample size of poor play that we've seen.

 

[CherryToke]

Remember when 90% of this board said Brock was useless and the contract was a catastrophe?

Same posters are awfully quiet now… almost like players on a down year can bounce back!

Most people here don’t know sh!t and it shows.

He WAS useless and it was for more than one year. It's great that he decided to be useful.

 

[arttk]

He WAS useless and it was for more than one year. It's great that he decided to be useful.

It took me years to snap out of my mother passing away. People grief differently

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

There have been some bad takes on this player...Even after 5 or 6 shifts in his first pre season game this season, the usuals were dog piling the guy...then trying to explain away his early point production as 'flukes'.

Warms my cockles to see this player overcome adversity, and play with confidence.

Tocchet on the podcast yesterday praising Boesers hockey IQ.

 

[canuckking1]

The statement wasn't incorrect at the time. Boeser had been garbage 3 of 4 years and the team couldn't even give him away - got the agent involved and they still couldn't unload him.

If he's actually doing the required things off the ice to succeed and is in shape and willing to compete, that's fantastic. I'd be delighted to eat crow on this.

But as I said in other threads, I'm not doing I-told-you-sos about things I'm looking right about after 10 games because that's how you make yourself look like an idiot. And I probably won't do them at all because I'm not 12 years old.

Boeser's 10-game blip here is encouraging. But he has to be good for a LOT longer than this to be given the benefit of the doubt after the sample size of poor play that we've seen.

I wouldn't group 2019-20 Boeser with the Boeser of the previous 2 seasons. That Boeser was still a very good serviceable top 6 forward. Boeser of the past 2 years barely looked like an NHL player most of the time.

 

[TraderJim]

If you have a leaky faucet and complain about it but then at some point a plumber comes in and fixes the faucet, you aren't suddenly hypocritical for your previous complaints.

 

[JohnHodgson]

The statement wasn't incorrect at the time. Boeser had been garbage 3 of 4 years and the team couldn't even give him away - got the agent involved and they still couldn't unload him.

If he's actually doing the required things off the ice to succeed and is in shape and willing to compete, that's fantastic. I'd be delighted to eat crow on this.

But as I said in other threads, I'm not doing I-told-you-sos about things I'm looking right about after 10 games because that's how you make yourself look like an idiot. And I probably won't do them at all because I'm not 12 years old.

Boeser's 10-game blip here is encouraging. But he has to be good for a LOT longer than this to be given the benefit of the doubt after the sample size of poor play that we've seen.

The team couldn't give him up because the winger market was completely shot dead and he was making 6.6M.

He was by no means garbage 3 of 4 years - that's just factually incorrect.

19-20 had 45 points in 57 games alongside 11 points in 17 playoff games. Garbage? LOL
20-21 had 49 points in 56 games and was our best forward/player that year. Garbage? LOL
21-22 had 46 points in 71 games (23 goals). Was it a down year? Yes. Was he garbage? Please... he scored 23 goals and paced for 53 points over an 82 game season. He was still providing adequate top six production. He was also dealing with his father's illness the entire year - that must have been weighing on him.
22-23 had 55 points in 74 games. He was -20 but was much better when Tocchet came in... I believe he was near point per game under Tocchet to finish the year.

Your evaluation of this player is dead wrong and he's proving it this year to the full extent.

Just take the L. Saying he was garbage 3 of 4 years is just showing your weird obsession with this player.

 

[MS]

I wouldn't group 2019-20 Boeser with the Boeser of the previous 2 seasons. That Boeser was still a very good serviceable top 6 forward. Boeser of the past 2 years barely looked like an NHL player most of the time.

He wasn't as bad as the last two years but he was a big-time passenger on that Miller-Pettersson line, especially in the bubble playoffs. Both of those guys were fantastic and they dragged Boeser to a 60-point clip.

The team couldn't give him up because the winger market was completely shot dead and he was making 6.6M.

He was by no means garbage 3 of 4 years - that's just factually incorrect.

19-20 had 45 points in 57 games alongside 11 points in 17 playoff games. Garbage? LOL
20-21 had 49 points in 56 games and was our best forward/player that year. Garbage? LOL
21-22 had 46 points in 71 games (23 goals). Was it a down year? Yes. Was he garbage? Please... he scored 23 goals and paced for 53 points over an 82 game season. He was still providing adequate top six production. He was also dealing with his father's illness the entire year - that must have been weighing on him.
22-23 had 55 points in 74 games. He was -20 but was much better when Tocchet came in... I believe he was near point per game under Tocchet to finish the year.

Your evaluation of this player is dead wrong and he's proving it this year to the full extent.

Just take the L. Saying he was garbage 3 of 4 years is just showing your weird obsession with this player.

We've moved past reading the backs of hockey cards.

If you're a slow, poor defensive player who isn't physical or good on puck retrievals and you're glued to linemates/PP1 putting up 80-100 points and you put up 55 points ... you've had a very crappy season.

Those numbers were fine if he was playing solid two-way hockey and playing 15 minutes on a 2nd line. They weren't fine for a guy getting top-line minutes with the players he was playing with.

If you played Sheldon Dries 18-19 minutes/game next to Miller/Pettersson + PP1, he'd score 20+ goals, too. It doesn't mean he was actually good.

 

[GranvilleIsland]

Still skates in quick sand, but if he keeps moving his feet he's effective enough at 5 on 5. As long as he doesn't get caved in defensively and the production remains I'm fine with keeping him. So far I'd say keeping him instead of trading him away for peanuts or paying someone to take him was the right call.

 

[JohnHodgson]

He wasn't as bad as the last two years but he was a big-time passenger on that Miller-Pettersson line, especially in the bubble playoffs. Both of those guys were fantastic and they dragged Boeser to a 60-point clip.



We've moved past reading the backs of hockey cards.

If you're a slow, poor defensive player who isn't physical or good on puck retrievals and you're glued to linemates/PP1 putting up 80-100 points and you put up 55 points ... you've had a very crappy season.

Those numbers were fine if he was playing solid two-way hockey and playing 15 minutes on a 2nd line. They weren't fine for a guy getting top-line minutes with the players he was playing with.

If you played Sheldon Dries 18-19 minutes/game next to Miller/Pettersson + PP1, he'd score 20+ goals, too. It doesn't mean he was actually good.

Just like how the Sedins dragged Boeser to 55 points in 62 games in his rookie year!

You're acting like Boeser is a complete bum. Surprise surprise... good players play with good players. The more you learn eh?

He's also not a poor defensive player - he's refined his game a while back and he's not a defensive liability... that's just a lazy ass narrative. Even the well known Canucks hater Thomas Drance acknowledges his two-way ability.

Why would Boeser be put on the Miller matchup line if he was poor defensively?

Your massive hate boner for Boeser is showing. Give it a rest. He was our best forward in 2020-2021 and he is reverting to that player.

 

[MS]

Just like how the Sedins dragged Boeser to 55 points in 62 games in his rookie year!

You're acting like Boeser is a complete bum. Surprise surprise... good players play with good players. The more you learn eh?

He's also not a poor defensive player - he's refined his game a while back and he's not a defensive liability... that's just a lazy ass narrative. Even the well known Canucks hater Thomas Drance acknowledges his two-way ability.

Why would Boeser be put on the Miller matchup line if he was poor defensively?

Your massive hate boner for Boeser is showing. Give it a rest. He was our best forward in 2020-2021 and he is reverting to that player.

Dude was bleeding goals out his ass the past two years. He was horrific defensively.

He's a smart player and it looks like he's actually got himself in shape a bit and is trying to compete. If he keeps this up, he's 'passable' defensively.

Rookie Boeser outscored the Sedins. If you can't see the difference between that and limping to a 50-point pace while playing with Pettersson/Hughes/Miller who are going supernova, I can't help you.

And again, it's been 10 games with a guy rocking a 30% shooting and a 114 PDO. If he's still doing this at Christmas, great. Right now it's a positive but a sample size this small doesn't get the benefit of the doubt over years of poor play.

Drance is the biggest Boeser fanboy alive.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Dude was bleeding goals out his ass the past two years. He was horrific defensively.

He's a smart player and it looks like he's actually got himself in shape a bit and is trying to compete. If he keeps this up, he's 'passable' defensively.

Rookie Boeser outscored the Sedins. If you can't see the difference between that and limping to a 50-point pace while playing with Pettersson/Hughes/Miller who are going supernova, I can't help you.

And again, it's been 10 games with a guy rocking a 30% shooting and a 114 PDO. If he's still doing this at Christmas, great. Right now it's a positive but a sample size this small doesn't get the benefit of the doubt over years of poor play.

Drance is the biggest Boeser fanboy alive.

Brock's been pacing for 62 points / 82 games in the last 4 years btw. It gets even higher if you include the first two years.

Another lazy (+incorrect) narrative claiming he's pacing only 50 points a year.

 

[MS]

Brock's been pacing for 62 points / 82 games in the last 4 years btw. It gets even higher if you include the first two years.

Another lazy (+incorrect) narrative claiming he's pacing only 50 points a year.

It's 58 points if you take out 20-21 which I've said was better. The other 3 seasons plus the bubble were awful.

But again, the point doesn't change. That's crappy production relative to his usage/linemates, especially given his lack of grit/defense/puck retrieval/intangibles.

 

[JohnHodgson]

It's 58 points if you take out 20-21 which I've said was better. The other 3 seasons plus the bubble were awful.

But again, the point doesn't change. That's crappy production relative to his usage/linemates, especially given his lack of grit/defense/puck retrieval/intangibles.

Why would you take out his best year when using statistical pacing?

Huh?

You're just going to manipulate the stats to try to fit your narrative?

He was our best forward in 2020-2021. He scored the most points, goals and had the best plus minus out of any regulars. You're just going to take that away completely? That's laughable.

 

[MS]

Why would you take out his best year when using statistical pacing?

Huh?

You're just going to manipulate the stats to try to fit your narrative?

He was our best forward in 2020-2021. He scored the most points, goals and had the best plus minus out of any regulars. You're just going to take that away completely? That's laughable.

I said he's been bad 3 of the last 4 years. When I'm talking about how bad he was in those 3 years and how his linemates floated his production, why would I include a year where I'm not claiming that happened?

20-21 he was solid. Nobody has argued that.

 

[Canucker]

Dude was bleeding goals out his ass the past two years. He was horrific defensively.

He's a smart player and it looks like he's actually got himself in shape a bit and is trying to compete. If he keeps this up, he's 'passable' defensively.

Rookie Boeser outscored the Sedins. If you can't see the difference between that and limping to a 50-point pace while playing with Pettersson/Hughes/Miller who are going supernova, I can't help you.

And again, it's been 10 games with a guy rocking a 30% shooting and a 114 PDO. If he's still doing this at Christmas, great. Right now it's a positive but a sample size this small doesn't get the benefit of the doubt over years of poor play.

Drance is the biggest Boeser fanboy alive.

I've been one of the bigger Boeser "fanboys" around here and even I was having a difficult time trying to defend his play...the talent has always been apparent, but the skating was labored, the shot wasn't popping or accurate, and he looked just disinterested a lot of nights...granted he's had a lot going on off-ice, but to say he wasn't a big issue for the team at $6.6m yr would be disingenuous. He's looked very good so far this year, but his skating is so plodding that it has to be a long-term concern.

 

[JohnHodgson]

I said he's been bad 3 of the last 4 years. When I'm talking about how bad he was in those 3 years and how his linemates floated his production, why would I include a year where I'm not claiming that happened?

20-21 he was solid. Nobody has argued that.

How was he bad (or in your words: "garbage") when he had 45 points in 57 games in 19-20? That's a 65 point pace and basically first line production on ANY NHL team.

Your hate for this guy is insane. Saying Beauvillier was better than him was a joke and shows what kind of bias you have against this guy.

 

[MS]

How was he bad (or in your words: "garbage") when he had 45 points in 57 games in 19-20? That's a 65 point pace and basically first line production on ANY NHL team.

Your hate for this guy is insane. Saying Beauvillier was better than him was a joke and shows what kind of bias you have against this guy.

He was carried to that production by two linemates who were at about 82-85 points/82 through that season and the bubble, and was the worst defensive player of the 3. He was a passenger. Especially in the bubble, where he absolutely stunk. Both his level of play/compete and his production fell off significantly from what he did 2017-2019.

I don't hate him at all. I actually quite like him as a person, and loved how he played when he first broke in. I really want him to do well, and I'll be delighted to be 'wrong' if he puts up 70 points this year. But his performances - especially relative to his contract - have been godawful the past couple years. And even if he's doing the right things to turn his career around this year, it doesn't change how bad he was previously.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I've been one of the bigger Boeser "fanboys" around here and even I was having a difficult time trying to defend his play...the talent has always been apparent, but the skating was labored, the shot wasn't popping or accurate, and he looked just disinterested a lot of nights...granted he's had a lot going on off-ice, but to say he wasn't a big issue for the team at $6.6m yr would be disingenuous. He's looked very good so far this year, but his skating is so plodding that it has to be a long-term concern.

Nobody denied that his play dropped off in the last year and a bit (with valid reasons) and he was certainly underachieving relative to his contract.

Being called out by certain expert posters here as being a 'shit player'.and a '.washed up liability'....It got extremely facetious..

Glad to see Boesers turning it around.

 

[Canucker]

Nobody denied that his play dropped off in the last year and a bit (with valid reasons) and he was certainly underachieving relative to his contract.

Being called out by certain expert posters here as being a 'shit player'.and a '.washed up liability'....It got extremely facetious..

Glad to see Boesers turning it around.

I believe someone is maniacally denying it right now.

But yes, it is nice to see a good guy get his game back on track...hope it stays that way.

 

[JohnHodgson]

I believe someone is maniacally denying it right now.

But yes, it is nice to see a good guy get his game back on track...hope it stays that way.

Where?

Boeser was great in 2020-2021 and our best player.

He had a down year the following year (but still provided top six production) and was atrocious last year but was much better when Tocchet came in.

He was also dealing with injuries and personal issues - yet he was completely dogged by several "fans" calling him a garbage player (like MS), even when he wasn't.

It's almost like progression isn't linear! It's almost like players can bounce back!

 

[JohnHodgson]

Nobody denied that his play dropped off in the last year and a bit (with valid reasons) and he was certainly underachieving relative to his contract.

Being called out by certain expert posters here as being a 'shit player'.and a '.washed up liability'....It got extremely facetious..

Glad to see Boesers turning it around.

Exactly my point.

Boeser was often the scapegoat and I was guilty of it myself at times.

The facts are he's been a fairly good top six forward in his six year career in Vancouver. He's had some high highs and some low lows. He came off a really bad year last year (a lot of players had bad years last year), but was much better when Tocchet came in. Boeser isn't a player that thrives in the chaotic system that Bruce wasn't trying to implement - he doesn't have enough footspeed for that. Boeser found a role in Tocchet's system and is excelling in his role, and he's been great on the PP.

Is he worth his 6.6M price tag? I don't think so. Is he some massively overpaid bum that's not providing any value to this team? Nope.

 

[God]

if you cut together a package of all his shifts from the last two seasons you'd see a disengaged player who wasn't skating hard enough, wasn't backchecking, and generally had the same body language as pettersson did in his weird 21-22 season.

that was probably entirely because of his dad passing away, but the criticisms of his play were correct.

 

[JohnHodgson]

if you cut together a package of all his shifts from the last two seasons you'd see a disengaged player who wasn't skating hard enough, wasn't backchecking, and generally had the same body language as pettersson did in his weird 21-22 season.

that was probably entirely because of his dad passing away, but the criticisms of his play were correct.

Sure - but acting like Boeser has been a bum and was "garbage" in the 3 of the past 4 years (as referenced by MS) is just asinine. Boeser was fine in 21-22 when he scored 23 goals and 46 points in 71 games.

Was he great? No.
Was he still providing top six production? Yes.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

if you cut together a package of all his shifts from the last two seasons you'd see a disengaged player who wasn't skating hard enough, wasn't backchecking, and generally had the same body language as pettersson did in his weird 21-22 season.

that was probably entirely because of his dad passing away, but the criticisms of his play were correct.

..and then the next thing you know..there's a 'who's up for trading Elias Pettersson' thread..?

It's yet another demonstration of the 'knee jerkism' of a select portion of the fanbase.

The criticism of Boesers play last season was warranted (Boeser would probably be the first to tell you about it), but unfortunately some posters need to take it to a stupid next level...The notion that he's 'cooked', have been wildly exaggerated.