Brisson confirms that EP40 dealt with injury which prevented him from Off-season Training.

[Bgav]

not buying this at all.

this coming out at the same day it is lowkey announced petey is officially off the market is your first clue. it's a truce and coordinated damage control and spin and the canucks made the agent say it because they would not.

Where was this said?

edit: found it

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

we’ll never hear it because ferraro’s wife is on the payroll, but man oh man i’d love to hear what he has to say about how the team/medical staff has handled this vs the player and presumably his own medical team.

in a different situation, he’s the only commentator out there i’d trust to shed some real light on what the truth might be, in terms of his experiences in the game, talking to folks, and telling a decent amount of the truth without throwing anybody unduly under the bus.

 

[Hodgy]

Or the 3rd very obvious explanation.

The Canucks med staff is not competent.

I know this is a popular theory on here, and while I don't know either way, I am pretty hesitant to conclude this given that I am not a doctor nor have any of the required information to make this conclusion. I think a lot of posters think that medicine is this 100% perfect science where there are only right and wrong decisions, and the team is the only one making the decisions, but in reality, there is a lot of uncertainty in terms of diagnosing injuries and the recommended therapy, and in reality, the player is involved in this process every step of the way. And in fact, and as we have seen with some players, can get a second opinion. And there are always risks associated with any potential path, and sometimes unlikely risks materialize. These aren't necessarily "mistakes" but are perceived as that.

And on Pettersson in particular, there really is zero evidence that his injury was mishandled. Dude's getting paid 11.6 million dollars per year, and if his injury was really so bad that he was scoring at 50% of his normal pace for an entire year, then how is he not questioning whether he should sit out, or getting a second opinion? Instead, he's playing voluntary games in the Four Nations tournamen? Like, at some point, even if the medical staff has screwed up, the player needs to take some accountability.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I know this is a popular theory on here, and while I don't know either way, I am pretty hesitant to conclude this given that I am not a doctor nor have any of the required information to make this conclusion. I think a lot of posters think that medicine is this 100% perfect science where there are only right and wrong decisions, and the team is the only one making the decisions, but in reality, there is a lot of uncertainty in terms of diagnosing injuries and the recommended therapy, and in reality, the player is involved in this process every step of the way. And in fact, and as we have seen with some players, can get a second opinion. And there are always risks associated with any potential path, and sometimes unlikely risks materialize. These aren't necessarily "mistakes" but are perceived as that.

And on Pettersson in particular, there really is zero evidence that his injury was mishandled. Dude's getting paid 11.6 million dollars per year, and if his injury was really so bad that he was scoring at 50% of his normal pace for an entire year, then how is he not questioning whether he should sit out, or getting a second opinion? Instead, he's playing voluntary games in the Four Nations tournamen? Like, at some point, even if the medical staff has screwed up, the player needs to take some accountability.

Yeeeah...

 

[racerjoe]

Some really interesting comments here but that's tendonitis for you. I've said this countlessly so I'll say it again like Kevin Malone here where it's most relevant.

Tendonitis - rest to avoid acute flare up but must OPTIMALLY load. Need physio and staff to identify. Build load tolerance but should stop explosive movements. If too much load. Ouchie - now lower load movements hurt more and inhibit movement. Repeat cycle. If do too much - degenerative tendon. Now big f***ed, long recovery. Summer time Petey did rest to recover but sound like not enough load into patellar tendon. Did not get as much power volume. Maybe did lot of adductor and hamstring strength to "train around knee" - but big mistake. Need load quad. Lots.


But seriously, this is why players can play through this vs not play through and MCL sprain. Tendons feel better with load but you sometimes cannot find out if it was too much until later. And then if tendon is highly irritable and sensitive, then the psychological impact with repetitive bouts of overloading and suffering the consequences is a lot to manage. I'm thinking it's a lot of this secondary piece at this point. There's just no way they didn't heavy load his quads in the offseason.


Near 100% recovery of tendonitis in athletes and general population. Genetics and rehab play an important role to get someone where they need to be, but not damaged goods. Hip and knee surgeries, depending on what's done, are more likely to have lingering problems and increased injury risks

Asking as I really don’t know.

If he load trained, as specified, but couldn’t do other hockey training as it would flare up as a lot of hockey movement is explosive, could we not still see a slower less quick Pettersson like we are?

 

[iceburg]

The club didn't think he was seriously injured in the back half of last year either. When he came into 2023-24 'adequately conditioned'. How do you reconcile that?

No, room for both doesn't mean both are equally plausible as primary factors.

I'm not sure I completely understand your point. It's clear that sometime around the allstar break last year he was feeling the effects of an injury. At the year end press conference there appeared to be some tension between the player and coach/management related to whether it was something that he should be able to play through without much impact on his game or whether it was something that was really causing him issues.
The range of possibilities goes from:
A. The player has no idea how to play through minor bumps and bruises that every player deals with, and he deserved a little motivating intervention, to
B. It was a serious enough injury that the right course of action would have been to shut him down last season but management forced him to try to play through it.

I have heard nothing that gives us any indication of where in the range of possibilities the truth lies. The only thing we can go on is speculation based on past history which, of course, is rife with confirmation bias.

 

[I am toxic]

As suspected, timeline went something like this :


- Pettersson started getting tendinitis last year
- played through it during 2nd half and playoffs
- he thought the best action was to rest through the summer and not overly train
-came to camp not in the best shape and of course no leg strength from lack of training ( pissed off Miller)
- cant gain that strength training during the season
- unsure if he is still going through tendinitis
- will need a full off-season of training to get back to where he was

Huh

Exactly how anyone with the most basic understanding of tendinitis expected, since any other explanation didn't match the facts

once again confirming the incompetence of Canucks medical staff, and management/coaching approach towards injuries and their (non) prevention

Some posters here sure have a large helping of crow on their plate

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I'm not sure I completely understand your point. It's clear that sometime around the allstar break last year he was feeling the effects of an injury. At the year end press conference there appeared to be some tension between the player and coach/management related to whether it was something that he should be able to play through without much impact on his game or whether it was something that was really causing him issues.
The range of possibilities goes from:
A. The player has no idea how to play through minor bumps and bruises that every player deals with, and he deserved a little motivating intervention, to
B. It was a serious enough injury that the right course of action would have been to shut him down last season but management forced him to try to play through it.

I have heard nothing that gives us any indication of where in the range of possibilities the truth lies. The only thing we can go on is speculation based on past history which, of course, is rife with confirmation bias.

C. The injury was incorrectly diagnosed by the defacto doctors.

 

[Canucker]

Near 100% recovery of tendonitis in athletes and general population. Genetics and rehab play an important role to get someone where they need to be, but not damaged goods. Hip and knee surgeries, depending on what's done, are more likely to have lingering problems and increased injury risks

Sure...I've had tendonitis in my knee and my elbow and both took about 4-6 weeks to fully go away and I never had a reoccurrence...my concern is that EP has some sort of chronic tendonitis or some undiagnosed tendon issue...his wrist injury went on far longer than it should have back in 2021, and his knee injury has gone on longer than it should have this year...I'm not sure how he can, in good conscience, play at the 4 Nations nonsense...if he's injured he should take the rest, like QH...if its a strength training thing, rest from hockey and get some training in...it seems selfish to me, especially after what has transpired so far this season. IMO, playing in this tournament it seems irresponsible to me, unless its just a confidence thing...then the injury and strength conditioning excuses go out the window.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Huh

Exactly how anyone with the most basic understanding of tendinitis expected, since any other explanation didn't match the facts

once again confirming the incompetence of Canucks medical staff, and management/coaching approach towards injuries and their (non) prevention

Some posters here sure have a large helping of crow on their plate

No... they will just keep moving goal posts and performing increasingly difficult mental gymnastics manouvers. As you can already see here.

Sure...I've had tendonitis in my knee and my elbow and both took about 4-6 weeks to fully go away and I never had a reoccurrence...my concern is that EP has some sort of chronic tendonitis or some undiagnosed tendon issue...his wrist injury went on far longer than it should have back in 2021, and his knee injury has gone on longer than it should have this year...I'm not sure how he can, in good conscience, play at the 4 Nations nonsense...if he's injured he should take the rest, like QH...if its a strength training thing, rest from hockey and get some training in...it seems selfish to me, especially after what has transpired so far this season. IMO, playing in this tournament it seems irresponsible to me, unless its just a confidence thing...then the injury and strength conditioning excuses go out the window.

Did you play NHL hockey through your tendinitis?

 

[Canucker]

Did you play NHL hockey through your tendinitis?

No, I was smart and rested it.

 

[TropicOfNoReturn]

Another post void of logic.

Just pure unadulterated bias.

Bias...you mean like this information coming from Pettersson's agent?
Completely objective news source....right.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Bias...you mean like this information coming from Pettersson's agent?
Completely objective news source....right.

What source would you believe?

No, I was smart and rested it.

Ok.

Good that we cleared that up.

If you want you can talk about your medical history in the OT thread. But it has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[Canucker]

What source would you believe?

Ok.

Good that we cleared that up.

If you want you can talk about your medical history in the OT thread. But it has nothing to do with this thread.

You asked, I answered....there would have been no additional discussion about it if you hadn't asked in the first place.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You asked, I answered....there would have been no additional discussion about it if you hadn't asked in the first place.

You brought your tendonitis up on your own bud.

 

[Canucker]

You brought your tendonitis up on your own bud.

Not to you I didn't...bud.

 

[iceburg]

Asking as I really don’t know.

If he load trained, as specified, but couldn’t do other hockey training as it would flare up as a lot of hockey movement is explosive, could we not still see a slower less quick Pettersson like we are?

I'm not an expert but it makes sense from a fast twitch/slow twitch muscle perspective. If he's unable to perform bursts during exercise, it would seem that that could lead to a weakening of his fast twitch fibres.

Muscle Fibre Development for Hockey – Evolution Skating Development

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Not to you I didn't...bud.

...cool?

Anyways. Back on the topic at hand.

Now those who really really want to just blame Elias Pettersson know what to go for.

His offseason training was not set up correctly.

 

[Lindgren]

There should be at least a couple of questions directed toward Tocchet, Pettersson, and any of the other relevant actors here:

How much consultation was there between Pettersson and Canucks medical staff about his injury and his off-season training program? If there wasn't a detailed consultation and a detailed plan developed, why not?

As the season approached, were there discussions about holding Pettersson out and continuing his rehab and fitness ramp-up? If not, why not?

I don't trust the NHL culture around the whole question of injury. Players are supposed to suck it up and play. They're not supposed to use injuries as an "excuse." (And then we get the whole post-playoff show when we learn how heroic all those players were who struggled through all the way to the cup while dealing with broken necks, etc.) It's not a context that would contribute to intelligent responses to situations such as Pettersson's.

 

[lawrence]

Still no reason why jt miller needs to be pissed at his teammate. That’s not for him to deal with.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

There should be at least a couple of questions directed toward Tocchet, Pettersson, and any of the other relevant actors here:

How much consultation was there between Pettersson and Canucks medical staff about his injury and his off-season training program? If there wasn't a detailed consultation and a detailed plan developed, why not?

As the season approached, were there discussions about holding Pettersson out and continuing his rehab and fitness ramp-up? If not, why not?

I don't trust the NHL culture around the whole question of injury. Players are supposed to suck it up and play. They're not supposed to use injuries as an "excuse." (And then we get the whole post-playoff show when we learn how heroic all those players were who struggled through all the way to the cup while dealing with broken necks, etc.) It's not a context that would contribute to intelligent responses to situations such as Pettersson's.

This plays a huge part in all this.

Well said.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Still no reason why jt miller needs to be pissed at his teammate. That’s not for him to deal with.

That is just Miller when things get difficult.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm not sure I completely understand your point. It's clear that sometime around the allstar break last year he was feeling the effects of an injury. At the year end press conference there appeared to be some tension between the player and coach/management related to whether it was something that he should be able to play through without much impact on his game or whether it was something that was really causing him issues.
The range of possibilities goes from:
A. The player has no idea how to play through minor bumps and bruises that every player deals with, and he deserved a little motivating intervention, to
B. It was a serious enough injury that the right course of action would have been to shut him down last season but management forced him to try to play through it.

I have heard nothing that gives us any indication of where in the range of possibilities the truth lies. The only thing we can go on is speculation based on past history which, of course, is rife with confirmation bias.

People disagree that he was injured from the all-star break onward.

If you acknowledge his injury as the cause to his drop in play, then his lack of conditioning in the offseason is supplemental to this, not the equal contributor to his drop in play.

To then call that lack of preparation as a mental failing is even further afield.

The most likely explanation is the tendinitis at the time of the ASG.

 

[Soups On]

Asking as I really don’t know.

If he load trained, as specified, but couldn’t do other hockey training as it would flare up as a lot of hockey movement is explosive, could we not still see a slower less quick Pettersson like we are?

Great question - loading is a gradient that eventually should return to sport specific movements. When I hear training around the knee, it's about building strength and movement patterns to offload the patellar tendon when loading. Thus, a relative decrease in load. The issue is in an uncontrolled setting like sports, if the normal way of loading is not re-loaded, the athlete is likely to revert to what they've done for the last 20 years.

Return to sport and late stage rehab is often power based which drive fast twitch muscle fiber recruitment.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Sure...I've had tendonitis in my knee and my elbow and both took about 4-6 weeks to fully go away and I never had a reoccurrence...my concern is that EP has some sort of chronic tendonitis or some undiagnosed tendon issue...his wrist injury went on far longer than it should have back in 2021, and his knee injury has gone on longer than it should have this year...I'm not sure how he can, in good conscience, play at the 4 Nations nonsense...if he's injured he should take the rest, like QH...if its a strength training thing, rest from hockey and get some training in...it seems selfish to me, especially after what has transpired so far this season. IMO, playing in this tournament it seems irresponsible to me, unless its just a confidence thing...then the injury and strength conditioning excuses go out the window.

If he's currently not injured and the 2 weeks off will not materially improve his leg strength, I see no reason he shouldn't go to the 4 Nations. The hope is that he can at least rehabilitate one of the things bothering him (confidence) in that tournament.

I don't think he is currently still injured, otherwise he would sit it out like Quinn. So if he's healthy but just lacking leg strength, 2 weeks won't help much. These kind of training is for the summer where you have lots of training and rest time.

I don't have an issue that he's playing, with the understanding that he is no longer injured.