Brind'Amour throws Tulsky under the bus for the Rantanen situation: "And the question is, should we have known that before we attempted to sign him?"

[LPHabsFan]

Friedman talked about it in his postdeadline podcast (around 16:30) Basically, the Avalanche give Carolina permission to talk to Rantanen’s agent, they asked if Rantanen would be open to signing a new deal with Carolina. Rantanen/his agent thought it was a negotiating tactic and said “sure, he’ll sign there.” Carolina takes him at his word. The trade happens.

Based on listening to that, it's even more proof that the deal should have never happened. If you believe the accuracy of what Friedman says, and the way he describes it, it demonstrates that the impression the Rantanen camp was giving was that of not taking the trade possibility seriously, and being entirely non committal to anything.

He even says that very often this type of situation is known to be a pressure tactic and the other team is being used.

So basically, Tulsky was dumb, and took something seriously that everyone else but him knew was not serious.

The Avs were probably laughing because they knew they would have never gotten that type of pure hockey trade from other teams.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Based on listening to that, it's even more proof that the deal should have never happened. If you believe the accuracy of what Friedman says, and the way he describes it, it demonstrates that the impression the Rantanen camp was giving was that of not taking the trade possibility seriously, and being entirely non committal to anything.

He even says that very often this type of situation is known to be a pressure tactic and the other team is being used.

So basically, Tulsky was dumb, and took something seriously that everyone else but him knew was not serious.

The Avs were probably laughing because they knew they would have never gotten that type of pure hockey trade from other teams.

Or, Rantanen/his agent didn’t take something seriously that the Avalanche and Carolina did. If they had taken it seriously, they wouldn’t have agreed to sign with Carolina, thus preventing the trade in the first place.

 

[newsportsfan123]

Rod Brind'Amour is old school. It doesn't surprise me that he may not mesh all that well with his highly-educated, analytics-driven GM.

Jeff O'Neill had a comment a while ago on Overdrive where he basically said, "I had a coach tell me that every day, a guy from the team's analytics department comes down and gives him a nice folder with a report in it. And every day, he politely says thank you, and when the guy leaves the room, he throws it right in the dust bin."

Now I have a hunch at who that coach might me...

If it is him he probably should read after it and finally bench Brent Burns. Analytics love Martinook/Staal/Jarvis (who Rod loves) so I wouldn't say the opinion is too much different considering that the analytics and Brind'amour like the same players. Hell, even the Stankoven and Jankowski moves show that. Both of those players have good underlying defensive stats and are hard forecheckers. If Stankoven reaches his potential he will be more important to Carolina than Rantanen/Necas would've ever been.

 

[Joe McGrath]

HF is funny. A coach coaches a team to three consecutive 50+ win seasons (and possibly four this year) and six consecutive playoff appearances with at least one series win, and there are those who wonder why he’s not fired yet.

There are morons on the internet? You don’t say.

 

[Chinaski89]

For me the situation is kinda like “do I want to go to Fred’s house three Saturday's from now?” Someone asks me that I go “yea maybe, I gotta see what I got going on but il probably let you know” Feigning interest not to be rude but I have no intention of going to Fred’s house. Fred’s house is weird, kinda small and smells like old malted 40 bottles and skittles (cause of the candles).

When the time comes to confirm whether I will be going to Fred’s, I gotta say “Nah man not really, I can think of at least 4 other places I’d rather be.”

It’s kinda like that. Now if Fred bought extra boneless chicken wings and that wine he knows I like to drink, that’s on him. I never confirmed my attendance.

Fred is an odd duck - two grown men eating chicken wings and drinking wine together is a little…..







medieval

 

[Blueline Bomber]

There are morons on the internet? You don’t say.

I wish they stayed on the Internet. They're leaking into everyday life and it's starting to become an issue...

 

[centipede2233]

Carolina did remarkable to get what they got. And with that cap space they would have used on rants, they can go sign a big time ufa.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I wish they stayed on the Internet. They're leaking into everyday life and it's starting to become an issue...

...they've always been in "everyday Life", the Internet just brought them all together...

 

[newsportsfan123]

Tulsky and co. not insisting they get to speak to Rantanen and/or his agent prior to the trade seems like a pretty big screw up. Look at Dallas; they're approach was that either Rantanen signs an extension or there is no trade. Carolina not doing that same is on them entirely.

And the fact that they then turned around and quickly traded him when he wouldn't sign shows they really weren't prepared for the risk. It's amateur hour over there.

That shows that they were prepared for the risk? They got the biggest return of a sign and trade ever?

 

[Gjman2019]

Terms were done between teams but Rantanen had not yet come to terms with the Stars. Ultimately, that was the hold up that stopped Canes from making other deals (didn't have the cap space until Mikko was gone).

Fair enough but i still think they should of had a way as a staff to make sure something like that doesn't happen.....

 

[newsportsfan123]

Dundon said from the start that he prefers a team that is competitive every year rather than a team that mortgages their entire future for one stanley cup win.

 

[bleedgreen]

Well then you accept that he's just a pure rental or you add an asset to talk to the agent and arrange a contract prior to pulling the trigger on a deal. Or you don't make the trade period.

But you want the player, think he’s a great fit, you’ve been given indications he’s open to signing with you and the price isn’t too much in your mind. You have a month to flip him if you can’t get him signed. Why wouldn’t you do it if you’re aggressive?

The Canes going for this was not remotely in question the day of the trade and everyone knew then they didn’t have a contract signed. It’s only after all this happens when everyone now says….”idiots!”.

Fair enough but i still think they should of had a way as a staff to make sure something like that doesn't happen.....

Teams waiting on them have offers from other teams, just like the Canes had offers for Rants from other teams. When it took too long they just took one of the other offers. Ain’t complicated.

 

[surixon]

But you want the player, think he’s a great fit, you’ve been given indications he’s open to signing with you and the price isn’t too much in your mind. You have a month to flip him if you can’t get him signed. Why wouldn’t you do it if you’re aggressive?

The Canes going for this was not remotely in question the day of the trade and everyone knew then they didn’t have a contract signed. It’s only after all this happens when everyone now says….”idiots!”.


Teams waiting on them have offers from other teams, just like the Canes had offers for Rants from other teams. When it took too long they just took one of the other offers. Ain’t complicated.

I don't believe I called them that, but it's pretty clear the head coach isn't happy about the acquisition and subsequent trading of Rantanen.

If the head coach is questioning why they traded for him that to me says that there is a bit of a disconnect between coaching and management.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don't believe I called them that, but it's pretty clear the head coach isn't happy about the acquisition and subsequent trading of Rantanen.

If the head coach is questioning why they traded for him that to me says that there is a bit of a disconnect between coaching and management.

I don’t think you’re right on his frustrations. He for the first time showed some shock and frustration this summer when we lost both Skjei/Pesce because we waited too long with Guentzel and it was too late to get either D back. He went from having a team one step away from being at the top to being set back a couple of years probably. He was pissed. I think the frustration we’re seeing here is related to that. He doesn’t care that Rants is gone obviously, as the guy didn’t want to play for us and played like crap. He’s not upset Necas is gone because Necas was a free lancer that never really fit the style and then they went through the Dad publicity calling out RBA for his son’s usage. That bridge was pretty crispy.

There’s always been a disconnect between management and the coach imo, until this last off season when the players they got for the first time were really system specific pickups. In the past moves like Kuzy were off base from the start as there’s no way that guy was going to play the style. Management acted like they could bring anyone in and RBA would magically make them defensive players who fit the system. Never works out that way.

 

[Gjman2019]

But you want the player, think he’s a great fit, you’ve been given indications he’s open to signing with you and the price isn’t too much in your mind. You have a month to flip him if you can’t get him signed. Why wouldn’t you do it if you’re aggressive?

The Canes going for this was not remotely in question the day of the trade and everyone knew then they didn’t have a contract signed. It’s only after all this happens when everyone now says….”idiots!”.


Teams waiting on them have offers from other teams, just like the Canes had offers for Rants from other teams. When it took too long they just took one of the other offers. Ain’t complicated.

Wasn't Boeser the guy they were rumored to be too late on ?

He never got moved in the end.

 

[Iggys Dome]

Rookie GM mistake

 

[Regal]

But you want the player, think he’s a great fit, you’ve been given indications he’s open to signing with you and the price isn’t too much in your mind. You have a month to flip him if you can’t get him signed. Why wouldn’t you do it if you’re aggressive?

The Canes going for this was not remotely in question the day of the trade and everyone knew then they didn’t have a contract signed. It’s only after all this happens when everyone now says….”idiots!”.


Teams waiting on them have offers from other teams, just like the Canes had offers for Rants from other teams. When it took too long they just took one of the other offers. Ain’t complicated.

I think it’s worth trying with the idea that maybe a player likes the fit once he’s there. I think the only issue is that they gave up a big piece off the current roster and were unable to get a replacement once they moved him. Stankhoven is good but a pretty big current downgrade for a team that’s trying to win a cup. They probably should have had a better plan B roster move to make up for the loss of Necas if they had to move off Rantanen. Sounds like they were in on Boeser but he wouldn’t have been a great fit imo either.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Based on listening to that, it's even more proof that the deal should have never happened. If you believe the accuracy of what Friedman says, and the way he describes it, it demonstrates that the impression the Rantanen camp was giving was that of not taking the trade possibility seriously, and being entirely non committal to anything.

He even says that very often this type of situation is known to be a pressure tactic and the other team is being used.

So basically, Tulsky was dumb, and took something seriously that everyone else but him knew was not serious.

The Avs were probably laughing because they knew they would have never gotten that type of pure hockey trade from other teams.

So the new meme from Montreal is going to be Tulsky is a rube?

Ok then.

 

[Michoulicious]

This could be an all time HFBoards post. (And I have been here for almost 25 years.)

View attachment 991437

Yeah, I agree.

So glad to have started the thread just for that post.

 

[bleedgreen]

Wasn't Boeser the guy they were rumored to be too late on ?

He never got moved in the end.

It sounds like they made an offer and it wasn’t accepted. I don’t know anything else about it. No one has any concrete info on the details on that.

 

[Michoulicious]

Y’all love creating drama, he didn’t throw Tulsky under the bus, he was just voicing frustration with how things panned out. The way he worded things is partially being taken out of context When a deal for a player of that caliber is on the table you pull the trigger 10/10 times. Go back and look at the trade thread and literally any news outlet reporting on it, people couldn’t believe Canes pulled that off. Tulsky is a good GM, it’s tough being thrust into his role when a team is already at the top. You’re immediately forced to manage some of the top assets in the world. This is a silly story focusing on hindsight. What if Rantanen said hey you know what it’s really nice here, pass the contract

He 100% said management should have verified with Rantanen if he wanted to extend in Carolina before they traded for him, because it was clear from the first interaction between Brind'Amour and Rantanen he had 0 (!!!) intention of extending in Carolina.

It is not taken out of context at all.

Looks like Carolina did not (or was not allowed to) talk to Rantanen before trading for him, which is a BIG NO NO if the reason you trade for a player is to extend him and not just being a rental.

Tulsky made a big mistake.

 

[bleedgreen]

I think it’s worth trying with the idea that maybe a player likes the fit once he’s there. I think the only issue is that they gave up a big piece off the current roster and were unable to get a replacement once they moved him. Stankhoven is good but a pretty big current downgrade for a team that’s trying to win a cup. They probably should have had a better plan B roster move to make up for the loss of Necas if they had to move off Rantanen. Sounds like they were in on Boeser but he wouldn’t have been a great fit imo either.

Well people make a lot of assumptions about teams that they aren’t familiar with. I don’t mean that as an insult at all, I don’t expect non Canes fans to really watch the games or follow the team. Stank isn’t a huge downgrade when it comes to style, only presumed offensive production. Necas blew up early but calmed down like he usually does. I love Necas but there clearly was never a fit, and after this summer it was clear he was short term and they were better off fixing that sooner than later.

Stank on paper and in a very small sample size already plays the role asked of Necas better than Necas does. RBA really doesn’t care about pts for better or worse. He believes in his bones if everyone plays the style the goals will come and we’ll win a lot more games than we lose. For a team that’s always lacking the star player the Canes have been a well above average offensive team under RBA during his years as head coach so as silly as that might sound he’s been proven correct.

I’d love to have Necas back but Stank is playing at least a top six role immediately (top line first game) and he arrives as someone who does a lot of the little things RBA likes and doesn’t need to coach. It’s a better fit/switch than people realize. Necas like Aho often gets negated five on five in the playoffs as he’s trying to do it all himself and no team allows that in the playoffs. I’d expect him to be much better with the Avs this post season as he has support.

 

[Regal]

Well people make a lot of assumptions about teams that they aren’t familiar with. I don’t mean that as an insult at all, I don’t expect non Canes fans to really watch the games or follow the team. Stank isn’t a huge downgrade when it comes to style, only presumed offensive production. Necas blew up early but calmed down like he usually does. I love Necas but there clearly was never a fit, and after this summer it was clear he was short term and they were better off fixing that sooner than later.

Stank on paper and in a very small sample size already plays the role asked of Necas better than Necas does. RBA really doesn’t care about pts for better or worse. He believes in his bones if everyone plays the style the goals will come and we’ll win a lot more games than we lose. For a team that’s always lacking the star player the Canes have been a well above average offensive team under RBA during his years as head coach so as silly as that might sound he’s been proven correct.

I’d love to have Necas back but Stank is playing at least a top six role immediately (top line first game) and he arrives as someone who does a lot of the little things RBA likes and doesn’t need to coach. It’s a better fit/switch than people realize. Necas like Aho often gets negated five on five in the playoffs as he’s trying to do it all himself and no team allows that in the playoffs. I’d expect him to be much better with the Avs this post season as he has support.

I do agree that Stankoven is a better fit style wise, and Necas was never a great fit for the team and made sense to move on from long term, but even though Necas was slowing down before the trade (12 points final 21 games), I’m still not sure if Stank is ready to produce enough to be as valuable yet even though I like it long term. Though fair enough, it might not be much of a drop come playoffs as Stankoven played well last year for Dallas. I still feel like the Canes could use a bit more offense though

 

[bleedgreen]

I do agree that Stankoven is a better fit style wise, and Necas was never a great fit for the team and made sense to move on from long term, but even though Necas was slowing down before the trade (12 points final 21 games), I’m still not sure if Stank is ready to produce enough to be as valuable yet even though I like it long term. Though fair enough, it might not be much of a drop come playoffs as Stankoven played well last year for Dallas. I still feel like the Canes could use a bit more offense though

I always had thought we need more offense and we all go back and forth about it on the Canes board. I was at the point where I didn’t think it was worth adding a big talent because they probably won’t fit the style - but then Jake showed up and crushed it so I think there’s guys out there that can fit in and help while staying dangerous offensively. You can only scout and guess who works in the end, they tried here. To be fair, I don’t think Rants tried hard enough to know if he fits in or not.

 

[Gm0ney]

Based on listening to that, it's even more proof that the deal should have never happened. If you believe the accuracy of what Friedman says, and the way he describes it, it demonstrates that the impression the Rantanen camp was giving was that of not taking the trade possibility seriously, and being entirely non committal to anything.

He even says that very often this type of situation is known to be a pressure tactic and the other team is being used.

So basically, Tulsky was dumb, and took something seriously that everyone else but him knew was not serious.

The Avs were probably laughing because they knew they would have never gotten that type of pure hockey trade from other teams.

The Avs probably aren't laughing now that Rantanen has been traded to Dallas, though.