Bridgeport Islanders Discussion 2021-22: Playoffs Start May 2
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SI
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Thinking about the lineup more -
I can see Lou giving Josh is unconditional release, but I can also see him go to Bridgeport and riding out the season - if he does return I would line them up as so -
I can see Lou giving Josh is unconditional release, but I can also see him go to Bridgeport and riding out the season - if he does return I would line them up as so -
- Timashov - Koivula - Holmstrom
- Greer - Fritz - Ho-Sang
- Brown - Bardreau - Kuhnackl
- Carpenter - Jobst - Coskey
- Durandeau - Maclean - Jenkins
- Bibeau - Kubiak - Neumann
Kevin27NYI
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Tahoeblue
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danteipp
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Based on reports, it sounds like Ladd isn't expected to play in a BST game anytime soon.
I haven't seen anything on him practicing. Maybe someone else has read about Ladd's activity with the BST?
At this point, I am not sure if him not playing helps with LTIR down the line, or if it would be better to get him on the ice and see where that leads.
In the end, if I had to speculate, the extended layoff and not playing in games probably helps with LTIR.
Hopefully it also convinces Ladd that it is time to move on to the next stage of his career, perhaps coaching or scouting.
I am curious as to if Thompson is killing the confidence of some offensive gifted players in the system over the years. Isles had Carter Verhaghe in their system and they let him go and now he is prospering and contributing in Florida. I always thought he was pretty good in junior and Isles gave up on him too early.
Bridgeport have trouble turning out forwards capable of taking their offensive skills to the next level and all the prospects played there for more than one season seems to have lost their confidence about how to create plays. If he only teach them to play defence down there then their is a real problem. How would the organization to be able to predict if their prospects (especially those drafted higher) have enough talents to make in the NHL if not too many of them can score enough in the AHL?
Isles can't rely on Trotz to teach prospects to create and score at the NHL level as the game is way too fast for practice in real situation and not having adequate ice practice time, and rookies hardly will ever get picked to play on the PP. When a young player with proven past goal scoring touch fails to score for long time, they can lose those touch and start to doubt if they can ever score in the pro again.
What is really going on in Bridgeport? If it is just due to lack of good scouting, then why a player like Verhaghe who had trouble putting up decent number for Bridgeport somehow end up in NHL couple years later with success? Remember Nino too, Isles give up on him too early and wonder if Thompson had something to do with not letting them develop their true potential in both cases.
I think it is time Isles GM pay a visit to the farm team Covid19 protocol permitting to have a better picture of what is going on down there or they will continue to have poor forward development program down there. It is not not odd that the only forward played under Thompson for more than a season made to NHL was Cizikas. All the other ones have trouble sticking in NHL unless was traded to other teams in the early part of their career. Yes Nelson, Lee, and Beau did play down there for one year but it is just too short a period to judge on how much Thompson helped them in their game.
I am concerned because if this keeps up, no matter who Isles draft, they will either asked to be traded or has trouble making impact in the NHL. I do also realize he did help Pelech, Pulock, Mayfield and Toews to develop into solid NHL defenseman but Isles need to have their farm team to develop both forwards and defenseman to be fully NHL ready. I think it is time to add a skill development coach to the Bridgeport team to teach the offensive part of the game so they can get the best out of their prospects, not entirely rely on being extremely good at drafting or trade.
Bridgeport have trouble turning out forwards capable of taking their offensive skills to the next level and all the prospects played there for more than one season seems to have lost their confidence about how to create plays. If he only teach them to play defence down there then their is a real problem. How would the organization to be able to predict if their prospects (especially those drafted higher) have enough talents to make in the NHL if not too many of them can score enough in the AHL?
Isles can't rely on Trotz to teach prospects to create and score at the NHL level as the game is way too fast for practice in real situation and not having adequate ice practice time, and rookies hardly will ever get picked to play on the PP. When a young player with proven past goal scoring touch fails to score for long time, they can lose those touch and start to doubt if they can ever score in the pro again.
What is really going on in Bridgeport? If it is just due to lack of good scouting, then why a player like Verhaghe who had trouble putting up decent number for Bridgeport somehow end up in NHL couple years later with success? Remember Nino too, Isles give up on him too early and wonder if Thompson had something to do with not letting them develop their true potential in both cases.
I think it is time Isles GM pay a visit to the farm team Covid19 protocol permitting to have a better picture of what is going on down there or they will continue to have poor forward development program down there. It is not not odd that the only forward played under Thompson for more than a season made to NHL was Cizikas. All the other ones have trouble sticking in NHL unless was traded to other teams in the early part of their career. Yes Nelson, Lee, and Beau did play down there for one year but it is just too short a period to judge on how much Thompson helped them in their game.
I am concerned because if this keeps up, no matter who Isles draft, they will either asked to be traded or has trouble making impact in the NHL. I do also realize he did help Pelech, Pulock, Mayfield and Toews to develop into solid NHL defenseman but Isles need to have their farm team to develop both forwards and defenseman to be fully NHL ready. I think it is time to add a skill development coach to the Bridgeport team to teach the offensive part of the game so they can get the best out of their prospects, not entirely rely on being extremely good at drafting or trade.
The Real JT
The crowd called out for more
I'm well aware that there are some on this board that still view Thompson as an asset of the organization. I'm more in your camp on this topic.
Over the course of his tenure, I have to believe that our AHL to NHL "conversion" of forwards may actually be the worst in the league.
I've said this before but I think it bears repeating. While winning at the AHL level is not the primary or secondary objective, it is on the list.
Winning at any level breeds confidence and player growth. No one can convince me otherwise.
GrandmaSlices51631
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Thompsons track record shows that Bridgeport is a graveyard for forward talent, yet no one seems to acknowledge this.
SI
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I'm not sure anyone on this board that supports Thompson. Change is a long time coming.
The Real JT
The crowd called out for more
Thompson’s supporters have dwindled to be sure. Not naming names but there are still a few posters left whose opinions I respect and who frankly have more hockey knowledge than I do.
Still, for those that support him I can’t help but think of the old saying “ Who are you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?”
It isn't a matter of supporting Thompson or not, it's a matter of giving his tenure a fair shake and seeing the forest for the trees.
sabremike
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Thrasymachus
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I have been anti-Thompson for a while now. At the end of the day, he may not even be a terrible coach, but it is painfully clear the Tigers need a change.
This isn't entirely true.
Verhaeghe started to prosper under Thompson's tutelage with 29 points and a +12 in 45 AHL games after having killed it in the ECHL.
Snow wanted a verifiable and promising #3 goalie in the system. Snow used Verhaeghe - who was actually the only real return for Grabner at that point - as an asset to obtain Gudlevskis, who was coming off several solid AHL seasons and had cups of coffee in the NHL.
They didn't give up on Verhaeghe. They certainly didn't let him go.
He was an asset and they used him as an asset to pick up another asset that Snow felt filled another hole in the organization.
In hindsight, although Verhaeghe required a ton of AHL time to get where he's at, the move did nothing for the Islanders.
Important here:
He didn't flounder under Thompson's tutelage. Rather, he started coming into his own.
The question is, which of the Islanders' forward prospects have possibly seen their careers hit a wall, or not develop as they should, BECAUSE of Thompson?
I think people will throw out the names Dal Colle and Ho-Sang.
I watch Dal Colle, who was clipping at a PPG pace in the AHL when he was brought up permanently, and see a player who DOES NOT have the hands to play in the NHL. He is also a choppy skater and the kind of player who spends huge amounts of energy getting little done. He's not what they call an "economic" player. He often stands in his own way more than anyone else. Due to the big body and a willingness to do whatever it takes, they're trying to convert him into something else, because it may be the only way he sticks in the NHL.
Is this Thompson's fault?
I scouted him internationally in his draft year and saw nothing except a shot. He was completely dependent on others to create and get things done. The head wasn't there. The skating wasn't there. But he had a shot and a nose for the net.
Do we see this shot in the NHL? That's what he was drafted for, but are we seeing it? No. Why? Because the NHL game is too quick for him. He simply cannot cock and release in time. He isn't apt enough at this level to get that done. His biggest weapon is an absolute non-factor.
Ho-Sang?
For all the talent he's got, he's produced precious little at the pro level and his one real promising cameo in the NHL came for an Islanders team that played such a run-n-gun system that it lead the NHL in goals against by a country mile.
Wherever there was accountability, be it the NHL, AHL or now SHL, he's flunked.
Is this Thompson's fault?
This is Niederreiter's time with the Isles:
The Isles nearly destroyed him with that 2011-12 season.
Thompson wasn't even the coach in the 2012-13 season.
That Snow and Niederreiter's agent had problems is no secret, but asking if Thompson had something to do with this is not possible according to the coaching timeline.
The Sound Tigers' GM is Lou's son, Chris. I think Lou knows EVERYTHING that's going on down there.
To be honest, if you know Lamoriello, then you'll know that Thompson is EXACTLY the kind of coach he wants guiding the minor league team.
Actually, Beau only played 3 games in BPort.
In addition, Nelson and Lee basically had as much overall time in BPort as Cizikas, so they're the same case study.
Come to think of it, only Casey's first AHL season was under Thompson's tutelage.
Of players in this organization who had NHL talent and pedigree, I can think of only Niederreiter und Ho-Sang as guys who have asked for a trade. Am I missing someone?
So, how do you deduce that the situation in BPort is going to be having draft picks either failing or demanding trades?
It's important that you mention this, because nary a team in the entire league has been a competitor the past two season with THAT many homegrown and fostered Dmen on their NHL roster. Depending on who you ask in the business, opinions about Thompson will be VERY high based on that output alone. I mean, each of these guys had 2+ whole seasons under Thompson's tutelage in BPort.
Interesting idea, as the staff only seems to consist of Thompson, Boguniecki, Carkner, and Ostroy, none listed as a skills development coach.
I think what people simply have to take into consideration is that most high impact forwards in the NHL didn't really go the AHL route. The second wave of such players usually only spend one year on the farm and have the kind of talent where just playing and getting pro experience is all they need, not their being formed into an offensive player of impact. That's already there.
There are plenty of late bloomers out there and also mid-round draft picks who need 3+ years of minor league processing before being ready for some type of role at the NHL level.
So, I always ask the following:
What highly promising forward in the system spent 2+ years with Thompson, was given up on, and went somewhere else to make a career of it in the NHL, much less as an offensive impact player?
You mention Verhaeghe above, but he doesn't fit this criteria.
Will it be Ho-Sang? Could be, but isn't looking like that just now. There's time.
So who else comes into question?
I can't think of a single example. Not a one.
This tells me that the only forwards the Islanders drafted between 2010-2018 who would prove to have what it takes to be an NHL player of some manner are already here. They're already on the Island. This even includes Bellows and Wahlstrom.
CAVEAT:
I too wish that our top picks who've been in the AHL would have killed it, been scoring sensations, and then found an offensive role on the team. But what we've seen is that we just haven't drafted much NHL talent in the forward ranks, especially after the 2009 draft. Barzal and Beau were a big haul. Nelson in 2010 was a goodin'.
But otherwise, we've just been lousy overall forward drafters for the better part of ten years.
We can't really put it any other way when looking at what's become of the forwards we've taken in the first round, often in top 6 spots.
And certainly, I too have my doubts when I see a kid like Holmstrom here in BPort. Hard to believe he'd have gone in the 1st round whatsoever, had it not been for the Islanders. Then they brought him to the AHL immediately as an 18-year-old after he missed the majority of the prior season to injuries. Heck, I don't think a team in the entire league would have pulled him out of HV71 within the first two years of that draft. That's how unorthodox that is.
But is that Thompson's fault that the organization made that decision and planted Simon there as an 18-year-old?
Is it Thompson's fault that he gets Dal Colle to being a PPG producer in the AHL, but that offense doesn't translate to the faster NHL?
I tend to look at a kid like Koivula, a 4th rounder whose biggest manko was his skating, and see how he came off the left wing and was actually turned into a #1/2 AHL center in his first North American season, and in a dog-eat-dog league like the AHL no less. Dunno what his future in the NHL will be, but that's something I don't think any ol' coach does.
Alas, with Bellows and Wahlstrom up with the Isles, I really don't see any forward in BPort who we can expect anything of anytime soon other than maybe Koivula and the newly acquired Timashov.
But I do see a coach there who has a track record of developing NHL Dmen and he's currently working with Wilde, Bolduc, Hutton, Vande Sompel, and Wotherspoon, all guys who have various NHL aspirations.
That alone is a major argument for keeping this guy in charge down there, if you ask me.
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Bravo. Well said. Especially to realize that impact forwards generally go straight to the NHL and that from 2010-2018 our drafting has been less than stellar.
It also should be re-emphasized that during Charles Wang’s time as owner of the Sound Tigers he largely neglected investing resources in the team and many years between 2007-2014 the roster consisted of AHL vets who could barely skate, let alone Islanders prospects who were low-end talent. Those 2 factors will help to doom an AHL franchise to the basement every year.
One more note. I’ve seen Lou Lamoriello in Bridgeport several times over the last 2 years-generally on nights when the Islanders are off. Seen Jon Ledecky in Bridgy a few times too. So let’s not try to float the narrative that Lou isn’t aware of what’s going on down here. Control freak that he is I’m sure he knows what’s what.
The Real JT
The crowd called out for more
Fair points indeed but I'll play the devil's advocate.
Isn't it possible that a player's future potential might be snuffed out by inferior coaching he receives in his formative years?
like the rest of the organization, we need a few years under LL's tutelage, to see what we have, and what we need.
when i heard that we brought in LL and BT, after nearly fainting, i thought that we need a good 3 years with these guys, before we expect anything significant. how we did last year, was a step further than i expected.
can't say i know much about B'Port, other than what i read, due to geographical challenges (i live in Niagara Falls, Canada). but i do trust in LL.
not that i put him on a pedestal, or want to have his kids. i just trust him.
what a great feeling, after decades of question marks.
when i heard that we brought in LL and BT, after nearly fainting, i thought that we need a good 3 years with these guys, before we expect anything significant. how we did last year, was a step further than i expected.
can't say i know much about B'Port, other than what i read, due to geographical challenges (i live in Niagara Falls, Canada). but i do trust in LL.
not that i put him on a pedestal, or want to have his kids. i just trust him.
what a great feeling, after decades of question marks.
I’d say it’s possible that development could be delayed or snuffed out.
Is it also possible that a coach can’t make chicken salad out of chicken shit?
Brent Thompson can develop defense prospects for us but not forward prospects? Not buying it.
The Real JT
The crowd called out for more
I think Brent can develop defenseman and defensive forwards. He has not shown any real ability to develop offensive talent in forwards, though I do agree he has had little to work with there, as all of the high drafted forwards he's had showed offensive struggles before getting to the AHL, or were Ho-Sang whose issues don't need to be rehashed here.
My suspicion is that Lou and Barry are fine with Brent's work as the guys they get from him are more or less NHL ready on the defensive side of things, which seems to be the priority for both of them. I would also guess that Lou's instruction for him is to focus on developing that, with winning and developing offense as secondary goals. But I have no inside knowledge, so for all I know he could be on thin ice with Lou too.
And I’ll answer that with Adam Gase followed Bowles and made him look like Vince Lombardi.
The Jets roster. Chicken salad or chicken shit?
That's certainly possible.
But many in the scouting and development world would say that the "formative years" of development are ages 11-17.
This is where the skating and stickhandling skills are engraved in a player.
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