Brian Leetch vs Paul Coffey opinions on HFBOARDS vs other Forums

[Henry Gill]

I was just looking at a couple of posts here on HFBOARDS about Leetch vs Coffey:

Coffey vs. Leetch

Curious how people view these two in relation to one another. Coffey Almost unquestionably the best offensive defenseman of the past 30 years. 5 time 100 point scorer. However, people berate him for defensive shortcomings. Others will point to the amazing breakup of the play in the...

forums.hfboards.com

and here:

Brian Leetch vs Paul Coffey

Which legendary defenceman do you Think was the best one?

forums.hfboards.com

HFBOARDS seems to lean heavily in favor of Coffey, with the consensus being he was better than Leetch by a good margin offensively and not much worse defensively than Leetch.

But looking over on another popular forum:



Leetch obliterates Coffey, with the consensus being that Leetch was better defensively by a good margin, and close (if not as good) as Coffey was offensively. Also a better teammate and easier to coach.

For the old time fans here, I'm curious what your thought on this are. I feel Leetch was definitely more "well rounded" than Coffey ever was. would have put up similar offensive numbers to Coffey playing in Edmonton, and been considerably better defensively while doing it. Coffey played on stacked teams his entire career. Leetch wasn't nearly as fortunate.

It is interesting to me though, how 2 popular hockey forums can have such vastly different opinions regarding these 2 players. Any idea why that is? HFBOARDS seems to have an "Anti-Leetch" bias to it that I can't quite explain. He's not a "favorite" around here, for whatever reason, but seems to get a lot more respect in other places. What do you think?

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[The Crypto Guy]

To be fair, reddit is a cesspool and have some of the dumbest hockey fans I ever seen. Even though they got the poll choice right.

 

[LyNX27]

HF definitely has a huge cesspool of young fans who read off eliteprospects.com and suddenly have an encyclopedic opinion about all players who have ever existed, whether they saw them play or not.

The truth is more muddled than most would admit.

Coffey was part of the best dynasty the sport has seen while Leetch won the Conn Smythe the one year the Rangers won the Cup. Paul Coffey was on better and higher scoring teams for basically his entire career. He was almost a +300 while Leetch was a +25 in his career. The chasm was not that big between the two.

Coffey had more seasons in him so he put up more points overall, but I would give the nod to Leetch, even knowing that I'm a bit of a homer. Want to see how much team disparity existed between the two? See how many playoff games they both played.

Now if you're grading what they achieved in their careers, it's pretty hard to thumb your nose at Coffey as he had more success overall... But Leetch was a core part of breaking a 54 year curse for the New York Rangers.

 

[Henry Gill]

Paul Coffey was on better and higher scoring teams for basically his entire career. He was almost a +300 while Leetch was a +25 in his career. The chasm was not that big between the two.

If ever there was an argument for plus/minus being a worthless stat, this is it. Leetch was substantially better defensively than Coffey, which can be confirmed by coaches and peers alike.

 

[centipede2233]

I’m gonna go with leetch. And I don’t underestimate coffey’s accomplishments. But if your building a cup contender, I’d go with leetch, high offensive ceiling with decent to good defensive acumen.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Leetch. His skating, vision, puck control, passing, shooting were all elite. He could take over games offensively like the best forwards in the game at the time. Defensively he was very underrated. He had very good positioning and very good with his stick. He could obviously close gaps with his skating. He was also one of the best I've ever seen at throwing hip checks. He was a dominating player.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Was a pleasure to watch both of these guys play in their primes. Two amazing d-men who stylistically were nothing alike. Both were gifted skaters, Coffey's stride was effortless, lightening fast both forward & backwards & IMO a top 3 skater ever to play the game, while Leetch was remarkable on his edges, had an amazing ability to walk the line on the power play & could reach top speed with his head up while stick-handling with the puck on a string.

Leetch was better in his own end, more physical (hip checks!) & played on worse teams. Coffey was a point machine for three dominant franchises during his prime which skews the numbers big time in his favor. Hard to pick one guy over the other, but Brian Leetch was one of the best big game players I've ever seen in 40+ years of watching the NHL, so that would make him my choice.

 

[Henry Gill]

Was a pleasure to watch both of these guys play in their primes. Two amazing d-men who stylistically were nothing alike. Both were gifted skaters, Coffey's stride was effortless, lightening fast both forward & backwards & IMO a top 3 skater ever to play the game, while Leetch was remarkable on his edges, had an amazing ability to walk the line on the power play & could reach top speed with his head up while stick-handling with the puck on a string.

Leetch was better in his own end, more physical (hip checks!) & played on worse teams. Coffey was a point machine for three dominant franchises during his prime which skews the numbers big time in his favor. Hard to pick one guy over the other, but Brian Leetch was one of the best big game players I've ever seen in 40+ years of watching the NHL, so that would make him my choice.

It's a real shame we didn't get to see Leetch have more big game opportunities, but he certainly made the most of the Rangers 1 Final appearance during his tenure. Coffey was indeed maybe one of the best skaters ever, but Leetch was smooth as silk in his own right.

The most impressive thing about Leetch was how smooth he skated WITH the puck, which you alluded to, Some players could skate very well, but at higher speeds couldn't handle the puck nearly as well as Leetch could.

I loved watching Coffey too, don't get me wrong. I just think Leetch would be preferable if you're talking about a guy to build your team around.

 

[n8]

when i go back and watch the types of goals Paul Coffey scored, I feel like Leetch would have 10 100 pt games in that decade.

 

[Bluto]

HfBoards is a cesspool. About 35% of the people on this website flat out suck. It’s essentially Reddit lite. The main board moderators are actual cancer.
That being said, anyone who thinks coffee was better than Leetch clearly never saw them play. One of them was propped up by the likes of Gretzky and Lemieux and the other one was named Brian Leetch. If Leetch had played with prime Gretzky and Lemieux, he’d have 2000 points lol.
Hfboards gives Brian Leetch absolutely zero respect. I’ve never seen him talked about positively on the main boards. But I’m sure he can’t hear all the negativity with that Cup, Norris, and Conn Smythe.

 

[Henry Gill]

HfBoards is a cesspool. About 35% of the people on this website flat out suck. It’s essentially Reddit lite.
That being said, anyone who thinks coffee was better than Leetch clearly never saw them play. One of them was propped up by the likes of Gretzky and Lemieux and the other one was named Brian Leetch. If Leetch had played with prime Gretzky and Lemieux, he’d have 2000 points lol.
Hfboards gives Brian Leetch absolutely zero respect. I’ve never seen him talked about positively on the main boards. But I’m sure he can’t hear all the negativity with that Cup, Norris, and Conn Smythe.

It's pretty absurd how HFBOARDS dismisses Leetch. You're talking about a guy who is 2nd only to Bobby Orr in points per game by a Defenseman in the playoffs. If someone prefers Coffey to Leetch that's OK but to read stuff like "Oh Coffey and it's not even close" really demonstrates a lack of hockey knowledge.

Leetch is most definitely in Coffey's class, if not above him. There's lots of garbage on Reddit too but at least they respect Leetch more, it seems. I don't know what's up with the "Leetch hate" on HFBOARDS. Maybe it's an "Anti-New York" thing.

Doesn't matter though, because like you said it doesn't change the fact that Leetch had the most dominating run by a Defenseman in NHL history. It must irk certain people around here that an AMERICAN did that, and one who played on a NEW YORK team, no less.

 

[Baby Punisher]

Coffey seemed to get it done year after year. He was a huge part of 3 different teams that all went to the SCF and won multiple cups with 2 of them. Both played with Messier and Gretzky, and as great as Leetch was at both ends of the ice, it was Coffey's effortless speed and skating ability that really set him apart and what made him such an offensive juggernaut. Game 7, gun to my head I would take Coffey over Leetch.

 

[Baby Punisher]

It's pretty absurd how HFBOARDS dismisses Leetch. You're talking about a guy who is 2nd only to Bobby Orr in points per game by a Defenseman in the playoffs. If someone prefers Coffey to Leetch that's OK but to read stuff like "Oh Coffey and it's not even close" really demonstrates a lack of hockey knowledge.

Leetch is most definitely in Coffey's class, if not above him. There's lots of garbage on Reddit too but at least they respect Leetch more, it seems. I don't know what's up with the "Leetch hate" on HFBOARDS. Maybe it's an "Anti-New York" thing.

Doesn't matter though, because like you said it doesn't change the fact that Leetch had the most dominating run by a Defenseman in NHL history. It must irk certain people around here that an AMERICAN did that, and one who played on a NEW YORK team, no less.

The issue with Leetch was that he wasn't a flashy player. He was a worker. He did his job and did it well. He also wasn't a great Captain. None of his teams made the playoffs while he wore the C. He was a great player, but after '97 he wasn't able to carry a team on his shoulders and drag them around like he was expected to do.

 

[Henry Gill]

The issue with Leetch was that he wasn't a flashy player. He was a worker. He did his job and did it well. He also wasn't a great Captain. None of his teams made the playoffs while he wore the C. He was a great player, but after '97 he wasn't able to carry a team on his shoulders and drag them around like he was expected to do.

If you replaced Leetch with Coffey on those dreadful Ranger teams, do they do any better? Leetch carried the 94 Rangers in a bigger way than Coffey ever carried any of his teams. Put Coffey on the Ranger teams of 98-04 and they don't make the playoffs any of those years either. I don't think even Bobby Orr could help those teams. There were years where they'd be rotating 5 goalies in one season.

Coffey seemed to get it done year after year. He was a huge part of 3 different teams that all went to the SCF and won multiple cups with 2 of them. Both played with Messier and Gretzky, and as great as Leetch was at both ends of the ice, it was Coffey's effortless speed and skating ability that really set him apart and what made him such an offensive juggernaut. Game 7, gun to my head I would take Coffey over Leetch.

Then why was Coffey traded after Pittsburgh's first Cup? Pittsburgh won again the next year WITHOUT him. Also, Detroit traded him right before they won back to back Cups. Scotty Bowman couldn't stand him either in Pittsburgh or Detroit.

Maybe Leetch wasn't a good Captain. We'll never really know because he was never given anything to work with. Don't forget though that Leetch was Captain of the 1996 World Cup Gold Medal Team USA. Messier came back in 2001 and played 3 more seasons in New York. Rangers failed to make the playoffs every year during his 2nd stint, and he was Captain at that point. Did he fair any better than Leetch? Nope.

The Gretzky that Leetch played with was a shell of the Gretzky Coffey played with, and Leetch only had a few years with prime Messier. During those years he scored over 100 points in a season, had 2 Conference Final appearances, won the Norris Trophy TWICE, 2 Presidents Trophies, won the Conn Smythe Trophy and won the Stanley Cup.

In 1994, only 35% of Leetch's 34 points were assisted by Messier. Coffey's best post season, 1987, 49% of his 37 points were assisted by Gretzky. It's a more than fair argument to say much of Coffey's offensive prowess was helped immensely by playing with the greatest player who ever lived, in his prime.

You say "gun to your head you take Coffey over Leetch in Game 7", but do you think any version of Coffey could duplicate what Leetch did in 1994 not only offensively, but DEFENSIVELY? Leetch was so good at BOTH ends of the ice that year, the best I ever saw from any Defenseman. That's fine that you prefer Coffey, but I'll tell you right now there's no way the 1994 Rangers win that Cup if you swap out Leetch for him that year.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I love Leetch but it's Coffey for me, outside of Bobby Orr there hasn't been a dman that controlled the ice as well as him. He wasn't a shut down dman but he had the puck all night, and when you have the puck you don't need defense. His skating even with those crappy skates all that sweat soaked gear and the offseason spent by the pool would still rival players of today.

 

[Henry Gill]

when you have the puck you don't need defense.

Tell that to Scotty Bowman!

 

[TominNC]

Put Leetch on that Oilers team and that PP and watch him rack up the points.

 

[CasusBelli]

I love Leetch but it's Coffey for me, outside of Bobby Orr there hasn't been a dman that controlled the ice as well as him. He wasn't a shut down dman but he had the puck all night, and when you have the puck you don't need defense. His skating even with those crappy skates all that sweat soaked gear and the offseason spent by the pool would still rival players of today.

This looks right, though I’d rate Ray Bourque ahead of Coffey, but that’s minor given the topic at hand.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Valid arguments about who was the better player but if the question is who you build around, the answer is undoubtedly Brian Leetch. Period.

As a bonus, if there is a piano bar player giving you a hard time, his wife will knock him the F out.

 

[Machinehead]

Let's be honest, HF has a crotch rot over the Rangers.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Really depends on which season. I believe Paul Coffey was so skilled that he sometimes got bored with the game and only gave a partial effort. Paul Coffeys ceiling was higher than Brian's. His skating and shot were amazing. His toughness is a bit underrated. I remember him bullying Tony Granato one game. I think Brian gave 100% more often and more consistently but Coffey was the better player. He often gets underrated in my opinion. I think they are both top 10 dmen. We had a chance to trade for Coffey. At that time Ron Greschner who is one of my favorite players ever seemed to tell Phil Esposito not to go for it. His reasoning was we had James Patrick nearing his peak. I was like what??? James Patrick can not compare!!! Coffey is probably top 5 while Brian is top 10.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It's pretty absurd how HFBOARDS dismisses Leetch. You're talking about a guy who is 2nd only to Bobby Orr in points per game by a Defenseman in the playoffs. If someone prefers Coffey to Leetch that's OK but to read stuff like "Oh Coffey and it's not even close" really demonstrates a lack of hockey knowledge.

Leetch is most definitely in Coffey's class, if not above him. There's lots of garbage on Reddit too but at least they respect Leetch more, it seems. I don't know what's up with the "Leetch hate" on HFBOARDS. Maybe it's an "Anti-New York" thing.

Doesn't matter though, because like you said it doesn't change the fact that Leetch had the most dominating run by a Defenseman in NHL history. It must irk certain people around here that an AMERICAN did that, and one who played on a NEW YORK team, no less.

After you mentioned playoffs I was glad that you were strong for Brian but felt like you might be underestimating Coffey so I looked at the stats.

Career:
Coffey 194 games-196 points
Brian 95 games-97 points

Peak year:
Coffey 18 games-37 points
Brian 23 games-34 points

 

[Synergy27]

I should probably just not inject but I don’t understand why people care about stuff like this. It’sa question with no answer heavily subject to personal bias.

 

[n8]

when i go back and watch the types of goals Paul Coffey scored, I feel like Leetch would have 10 100 pt games in that decade.

when i go back and watch the types of goals Paul Coffey scored, I feel like Cale Makar would have 10 150 pt games in that decade.

 

[Boris Zubov]

After you mentioned playoffs I was glad that you were strong for Brian but felt like you might be underestimating Coffey so I looked at the stats.

Career:
Coffey 194 games-196 points
Brian 95 games-97 points

Peak year:
Coffey 18 games-37 points
Brian 23 games-34 points

Coffey in '85 did not "dominate" the playoffs like Leetch did in '94. Not saying he wasn't outstanding, but The Oilers as a team were dominant & blew out their opponents basically every other night in the playoffs averaging 5.44 goals in 18 playoff games. In the 6 game Campbell conference finals they scored 44 goals...a 7.33 goal per game clip! Safe to say they likely win the Cup without Coffey in '85, but not a chance the Rangers win without #2 in '94.

I was too young for Orr, so I can't really comment fairly on him but since the early 80s, the list of best of single season playoff performers is Gretzky in whatever year you feel like choosing, Lemieux in '91, then Leetch in '94. For my money, Leetch was on the same level as those two legends were, because he did it while actually playing 30+ minutes a night in both ends of the rink. I've yet to see anyone play at that level for 2 straight months since that run. It was just an eye opening performance.