Brian Burke Presser at 12:00

[Suntouchable13]

Honestly, its so sad seeing Burke leave. This team 4 years ago was totally garbge.. Had no prospects and had no hope. Burke brought in big pieces to our future and he gets the boot, but when JFJ was trading our future pieces for old farts there some were praising him and stupid mlse wasnt firing him... Look at our team 4 years ago and look at the team now and tell me if theres a big improvement.. Burke did make some mistakes but every gm does...I feel bad for the guy but i feel even more bad for us leafs fans. With this ownership, we will never have a contender team to compete for the cup. These owners are thirty for money and thats it..

I was never a supporter of a new team in Toronto, but now that this is happening i really would like another Toronto team. Im so sick of being a Leafs fan. These owners that we get are just terrible and will never give a **** about us fans..

Did not have a #1 C back then, still don't. Did not have a #1 goalie, still don't.

 

[Gungagalunga]

Burkie is one of the best hockey minds alive today. It doesn't matter how you slice it. First off, you don't get offered to be general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs on a whim. He has earned every position of employment he has played a role in, regarding hockey. That is just the brutal truth. Great guy, brilliant hockey mind. I wish more people were like him in this pathetic "politically correct" facade we live in.

 

[4evaBlue]

While 4 years probably isn't enough time to fully complete a rebuild...
if the rebuild was going properly, you should be able to see some sign of improvement.

But after four years of bottom 10 finishes, we don't score more goals, don't prevent more goals, don't win more games, and have lower rated prospects in lists created by professional nhl scouts.

I don't think ownership thought Burke's rebuild should be COMPLETE by now. But they wanted to see some indication that the rebuild was working. If they thought it was, they would have kept Burke.
But fortunately for us, ownership looked at the facts and saw that the rebuild WASN'T going well. So Burke got fired.
Pretty simple really...

If that was the main reason behind his firing, and MLSE would have restructured the organization during the lockout for a better chance of success, there'd be a lot less grumbling about the decision.

 

[4evaBlue]

Did not have a #1 C back then, still don't. Did not have a #1 goalie, still don't.

We didn't have a #1D back then, we have one now.

We didn't have legit top line players back then, we have a couple now.

We didn't have young prospects primed to make an impact on the Leafs back then, we do now.

etc, etc

 

[4evaBlue]

First off, you don't get offered to be general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs on a whim.

Not that I disagree with the rest of the post, but had to call you out on this. JFJ says hi.

 

[Confucius]

If that was the main reason behind his firing, and MLSE would have restructured the organization during the lockout for a better chance of success, there'd be a lot less grumbling about the decision.

Unless he sold them on a certain path and then in the blink of an eye he was going to trade quite a bit of that away. ie. a highly rated prospect and a high draft choice. That would leave them little choice other than to act swiftly.

 

[egd27]

Who cares. The nightmare is over. The Ahole is gone.

The reign of the worst GM in the history of the Leafs is over!!!

This has been an awesome few days!!!!

Hope you're right, but I think it may just be starting.

 

[egd27]

Did not have a #1 C back then, still don't. Did not have a #1 goalie, still don't.

They might tomorrow. Careful what you wish for.

 

[firstemperor]

We didn't have a #1D back then, we have one now.

We didn't have legit top line players back then, we have a couple now.

We didn't have young prospects primed to make an impact on the Leafs back then, we do now.

etc, etc

Yet we have a severe lack of resources compared to what we should have, from an expected linear progression in development (from prospects alone) by having 4 terrible seasons in a row.......and we only got a one dimensional, highly flawed one-way player out of it (versus what we could have had + Reilly). And I will continue to maintain that if there was any semblance of analytics in hockey (like in baseball and basketball), Kessel would be viewed as a horrendous player- while guys like Datysuk, would obviously still be in the top 5.

Add onto the fact that he hasn't addressed the #1 issue from day 1- goaltending.

Hung onto a lame duck coach and paid him handsomely before firing him shortly after.

Disagree completely with your #1 defense argument as well. Phaneuf is far and away from a legit #1 defenseman in this league.

 

[TrueBlue86]

We didn't have a #1D back then, we have one now.

We didn't have legit top line players back then, we have a couple now.

We didn't have young prospects primed to make an impact on the Leafs back then, we do now.

etc, etc

#1D? wait, who?

of course you will have someeee prospects after those awful finishes, is your bar set that low lol

only elite players he brought us were gardiner (burke's best move) and kessel (cost an arm and a leg)

naturally we have more depth but no sign of a #1C no sign of a #1G in the organization

 

[Roboholic]

Burkie just can't help himself, he seemed to answer most questions in a respectful manner, yet then there was Simmons...no need for it...

Burkie is a standup guy, to a fault...

The below article is probably the reason Burke has such an issue with Simmons.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Toronto/2012/06/05/19841851.html

 

[Confucius]

They might tomorrow. Careful what you wish for.

Not a chance,

 

[Gungagalunga]

Not that I disagree with the rest of the post, but had to call you out on this. JFJ says hi.

Point taken.

 

[firstemperor]

Burkie is one of the best hockey minds alive today. It doesn't matter how you slice it. First off, you don't get offered to be general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs on a whim. He has earned every position of employment he has played a role in, regarding hockey. That is just the brutal truth. Great guy, brilliant hockey mind. I wish more people were like him in this pathetic "politically correct" facade we live in.

Seems like your a fan more of his persona than what actually matters to the majority of Leaf Nation- Results. And by results, I don't just mean winning, I can point directly to his asset accumulation (especially given the circumstances of having 4 terrible seasons in a row) and how terribly he mismanaged it.

As he stated himself in his presser. It doesn't matter who the hell you are as a person if you get results. He didn't. That's all that matters.

 

[TrueBlue86]

Hope you're right, but I think it may just be starting.

naaaa

if anything bell/rogers will want to keep a good image

they will be accountable to us fans, more so than the teachers were. they knew the didn't want burke at the top. not sure nonnis is the perfect choice. their next hire will be key (if nonnis fails).

listening to prime time sports, shannon was saying they'll get a proper CEO and look to build credibility at all positions in their franchise, like the rest of their businesses

i like it

 

[Gungagalunga]

Seems like your a fan more of his persona than what actually matters to the majority of Leaf Nation- Results. And by results, I don't just mean winning, I can point directly to his asset accumulation (especially given the circumstances of having 4 terrible seasons in a row) and how terribly he mismanaged it.

As he stated himself in his presser. It doesn't matter who the hell you are as a person if you get results. He didn't. That's all that matters.

I didn't once say that he wasn't accountable. The players failed, so he got the axe. That's been going on since pro sports began, regardless of city. And you haven't had "4 terrible seasons in a row". Other than '93, well.............

 

[firstemperor]

I didn't once say that he wasn't accountable. The players failed, so he got the axe. That's been going on since pro sports began, regardless of city. And you haven't had "4 terrible seasons in a row". Other than '93, well.............

Nor did I suggest that you said he wasn't accountable. The point is, the context of your post suggests he is some demi-god "genius" hockey mind. Obviously, it's relative (based on your definition of genius), but I think it's fair to say given his fair sample size in this city and with the team he's built in his tenure here, that he is far and away from a "brilliant" hockey mind in any sense of the word.

 

[Gungagalunga]

Nor did I suggest that you said he wasn't accountable. The point is, the context of your post suggests he is some demi-god "genius" hockey mind. Obviously, it's relative (based on your definition of genius), but I think it's fair to say given his fair sample size in this city and with the team he's built in his tenure here, that he is far and away from a "brilliant" hockey mind in any sense of the word.

So let me know when your brass are able to land that elusive "demi-god "genius" hockey mind". It's been 46 years so far, with the hammer falling every half decade on average. Maybe it's time to look a little higher up than middle management. That's all I'm saying.

And furthermore, the timing of this firing (regardless who it is) was utterly pathetic, even for the Maple Leafs.

 

[4evaBlue]

Yet we have a severe lack of resources compared to what we should have, from an expected linear progression in development (from prospects alone) by having 4 terrible seasons in a row.......and we only got a one dimensional, highly flawed one-way player out of it (versus what we could have had + Reilly). And I will continue to maintain that if there was any semblance of analytics in hockey (like in baseball and basketball), Kessel would be viewed as a horrendous player- while guys like Datysuk, would obviously still be in the top 5.

Add onto the fact that he hasn't addressed the #1 issue from day 1- goaltending.

Hung onto a lame duck coach and paid him handsomely before firing him shortly after.

Disagree completely with your #1 defense argument as well. Phaneuf is far and away from a legit #1 defenseman in this league.

The point is, the Leafs had nothing but holes when he arrived. He filled a lot of them, and positioned himself well post-CBA to fill the remaining two holes.

Let's say the Kessel trade happens for a #1C, but then we're unable to find him competent wingers (Sundin symptom), and gets us a decent #1G instead of Phaneuf. People would be whining about having no #1D, and top line wingers.

I already spoke my mind on Wilson. I wish he would have been fired earlier, but understand why he wasn't.

There are only a handful of "legit" #1D in the league, who can provide you with offense, defense, and grit. Give Phaneuf a Sutter as a defensive partner, and he'll shine. The fact that he's been able to accomplish what he has while being paired with the likes of Aulie, and Gunnarsson speaks volumes.

 

[4evaBlue]

if anything bell/rogers will want to keep a good image

they will be accountable to us fans

That'd be a nice change from those multimedia giants. So the accountability starts uhm... after that last presser, right?

 

[firstemperor]

So let me know when your brass are able to land that elusive "demi-god "genius" hockey mind". It's been 46 years so far, with the hammer falling every half decade on average. Maybe it's time to look a little higher up than middle management. That's all I'm saying.

And furthermore, the timing of this firing (regardless who it is) was utterly pathetic, even for the Maple Leafs.

I don't disagree with you that upper management may have an impact with the success of the franchise. Whether it handicapped Burke, I am completely speculative about, given he was provided autonomy in hockey operations. By the way, 46 years is an exaggerated number which isn't as concrete as the number itself, given the evolution of the management position and everything in-between- that is another debate in itself.

If your point is purely about timing, its sort of perpelxing as why it was centered around labeling Burke a "genius" in the first-place. Hence, why I suggested you were a fan of his persona more than his actual production. And I don't mean that in an insulting context.

Personally, timing in this case is irrelevant to me, given as Burke was given his fair share in his tenure to build the team. The only situation I can rationalize timing being an issue is that fed upon media, which the consensus appears to be based on "giving him a few months to salvage the situation". Seems more like a pedigree issue than anything. Fact of the matter is, at the end of the day, he's had 4 years. It doesn't matter if its mid-season, mid-day, mid-draft. If after 4 years of completely and utter failure, ownership suddenly doesn't have trust in that person building the team moving forward, I don't blame them at all.

 

[4evaBlue]

Unless he sold them on a certain path and then in the blink of an eye he was going to trade quite a bit of that away. ie. a highly rated prospect and a high draft choice. That would leave them little choice other than to act swiftly.

The last time Burke did that, he got us a forward who turned into a PPG player. If he can fill one of the remaining holes with a similar quality / age player, I would have been fine with the move.

You could argue that Burke was in panic mode, and was willing to do whatever it took to save his job (a'la JFJ). There are two issues with that line of argument, though. First, he's never indicated such tendencies with his previous teams. Second, he made it very clear that this decision came out of the blue, and had no indication that his job was in immediate jeopardy.

Burke is simply not in the business of pissing away valuable assets on soon-to-be over the hill veterans.

 

[TrueBlue86]

That'd be a nice change from those multimedia giants. So the accountability starts uhm... after that last presser, right?

what last presser? where they announced burke's firing?

they gave their reasons- the team's futility and burke's management style

what else are they supposed to say? it's obvious burke was not a good match

 

[4evaBlue]

Nor did I suggest that you said he wasn't accountable. The point is, the context of your post suggests he is some demi-god "genius" hockey mind. Obviously, it's relative (based on your definition of genius), but I think it's fair to say given his fair sample size in this city and with the team he's built in his tenure here, that he is far and away from a "brilliant" hockey mind in any sense of the word.

I guess that depends on your definition of "fair".

 

[4evaBlue]

what last presser? where they announced burke's firing?

they gave their reasons- the team's futility and burke's management style

what else are they supposed to say? it's obvious burke was not a good match

The tagline for that presser should have been "without going into specifics". Expect some more of that corporate BS in the years to come.