Bravo Benning. The D is pretty much rebuilt.

[hlrsr]

So everyone is going to underperform relative to expectations, and no one is going to exceed them. Seems likely.

Relative to your expectations, yeah probably.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Which team was ready to trade? It takes two teams to make a trade. Benning and co worked the phones until literally the last second.

But I guess the tv watchers know it all smh

My god is their a more overused word on this forum than "asset management?" People sound like 1st year poli Sci students running around spouting some bs they heard in their second lecture.

Oh come on you can't say "Which team would have traded!?!" There was clear trades to and away from places in the 1st round for d-men who aren't far off Juolevi and have good shots at turning out better, even Chychrun at 15.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

It's interesting...

We draft Horvat and fans *****
We draft Virtanen and fans *****
We draft Juolevi and fans *****

Fans ***** that we need a big 2 way centre with leadership and top line potential (Horvat)
Fans ***** that we need a offensive power forward forward (Virtanen)
Fans ***** that we need a potential top pairing D man that can do it all (Juolevi)

All three of them have great potential let them develop and let's see what they can be

1. Horvat doesn't have top line potential

2. Virtanen is still a project. For a team lacking offense there was much better options

3. No the Canucks need a true #1 dman and Juolevi will never be that. Sergachev and even Chychrun have a better shot IMO.

 

[opendoor]

So everyone is going to underperform relative to expectations, and no one is going to exceed them. Seems likely.

Hutton could overperform expectations and still not be as good as Ehrhoff was in 2009-2011. Gudbranson will never be a 40+ point guy who can play on a shutdown pairing like Bieksa was in that era. Juolevi might not even be a top 4 defenseman, let alone a guy like Edler.

Basically every single guy would have to have to absolutely smash their expectations just to get to that level. And even then, you're missing the 2 most important pieces of that team in the Sedins who were a big reason why the Canucks could have an elite team without clear #1 defenseman.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Hutton could overperform expectations and still not be as good as Ehrhoff was in 2009-2011. Gudbranson will never be a 40+ point guy who can play on a shutdown pairing like Bieksa was in that era. Juolevi might not even be a top 4 defenseman, let alone a guy like Edler.

Basically every single guy would have to have to absolutely smash their expectations just to get to that level. And even then, you're missing the 2 most important pieces of that team in the Sedins who were a big reason why the Canucks could have an elite team without clear #1 defenseman.

And we still don't know what kind of shape Edler will be in.

The d group is certainly reasonable defensively but there's very little offense there which is bad when your team is one of the worst offensive teams in the NHL and the UFA market doesn't look like it can help out much. If it wasn't for Boeser i'd say the org will be one of the worst scoring NHL teams for years to come.

 

[CraigBillington]

Benning also said after failing to get a 2 for lack after he pretty much said he would, he said the 2016 draft was deeper, now that he pissed away a bunch of pics, changes his tune and suddenly 2016 sux

Things change in 12 months.

 

[GetFocht]

I am absolutely perplexed for anyone to say Horvat does not have top like potential, he scored 40 points in his second season after scoring 25 in his first.

Henrik Sedin scored 39 points his second season in the NHL.

Horvat has the work ethic and attitude to improve, he has consistently outperformed his previous season for the last 4 years (juniors/NHL).

 

[opendoor]

Things change in 12 months.

Agreed. It was utterly moronic for Benning to use his impressions of a draft 12-15 months before it occurred to guide his trades.

 

[MarkMM]

I really like whats happening with this back end renovation.
Its not over but progressing well.

Jim has added much needed muscle and beef and now just grabbed the most coveted junior Defenceman on the planet in Juolevi (Bob McKenzie) and College NCAA All-Tournament Team Troy Stecher from North Dakota.

The same people that were screaming murder for signing Gudbranson a few weeks ago and not a puck moving D are the same people that are now screaming murder for signing the best young pmd on the planet arguably.
Anything Benning and Linden do they will hate.
Ignore them.



Juolevi-Tanev
Hutton-Gudbranson
Edler-Tryamkin
Pedan-Subban-Stecher-Brisebois etc...

Marky/Demko



Benning hasn't been perfect and i haven't cosigned all of his moves but he has done a stellar job at rebuilding this D in less than 2 years with limited assets.

Oh God, really?! I do like Juolevi and like the foundation that we're starting to put together (Juolevi, Tanev, Hutton and Gudbranson is a nice base that can last a decade) but you'd have to be wilfully blind not to see the enormous flaws in Benning's approach or the legitimate alternatives that people preferred.

Just because the defence is progressing that doesn't mean it couldn't be much better, and it's Benning's mistakes that are holding the team back overall.

i wanted Dubois...Tkachuk and Boeser would have been nice but juolevi is a stud.

Bob McKenzie ranked him the top D on the planet this draft.

Maybe he's an idiot too and you're the expert.


http://www.tsn.ca/matthews-goes-wire-to-wire-as-tsn-s-top-prospect-1.511597

Or maybe you're not sophisticated enough in your thinking to realize that Juolevi is the best dman in this draft, but this draft year has been notable in that many GM's from Benning to Chiarelli have publicly said that they don't think there is ANY defenceman who is a guaranteed #1 defenceman.

Juolevi is the best of a weak crop, but if he lives up to his potential (and I'm hopeful he does) then we got a keeper.

But people preferring Tkachuk is fair, Tkachuk was ranked higher by most consensus, add to that the fact that we may watch Vey walk for free after effectively trading Garrison for him.

Remember that time Jim Benning inherited a decent D-core in 2014? Then he proceeded to trade Garrison for a 2nd=Vey=nothing. Then we to allow 220 goals in 2015, up from 216 in 2014 actually. Hamhuis gets old and being unable to trade him was fun too. So was signing Bartkowsi. Then we broke the bank for Gudbranson, who is inferior to Garrison in every way but we sold the farm for him. Then, cause we suck cause of Benning we land with the 5th overall pick. Even though logic dictates you should go for the BPA and forward need on your offensive record breakingly bad team you pick a Jouveli. Why? Cause you broke the defence in the first place.

This, so much this.

Since the lockout here are the top selected Ds. If a defenseman was taken first overall I will add the 2nd defenseman taken in the same draft.

2005 - Brian Lee 9th overall
2006 - Erik Johnson 1st overall, Ty Wishart 16th overall
2007 - Thomas Hickey 4th overall
2008 - said to be the most stacked draft for D throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2009 - defenseman battling for 1st overall throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2010 - Erik Gudbranson 3rd overall
2011 - Adam Larsson 4th overall
2012 - said to be the most stacked draft for D throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2013 - defenseman battling for 1st overall throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2014 - Aaron Ekblad 1st overall, Haydn Fleury 7th overall
2015 - Noah Hanifin 5th overall
2016 - Olli Juolevi 5th overall

So given the history of the last 11 years. Knowing this draft not hyped up as a dmen draft as it were in 2008 and 2012, nor was there a dmen contending for 1st overall at any point during the draft year as it were in 2006, 2009, 2013 we're looking at Juolevi being somewhere here:

Brian Lee
Ty Wishart
Thomas Hickey
Erik Gudbranson
Adam Larsson
Haydn Fleury
Noah Hanifin

Exactly. Fingers crossed, remember Hamhuis was drafted in the first round and Shea Weber in the SECOND round, so don't get too excited by your prognostications that Juolevi is the best dman in this draft.

Otherwise, why did PK Subban go in the 2nd round, too? Would have been nice to have a 2nd round pick, but I guess Benning had to throw that in for Gudbranson, just like he threw in a 2nd in the Bonino trade for Sutter...

 

[manroth19]

Since the lockout here are the top selected Ds. If a defenseman was taken first overall I will add the 2nd defenseman taken in the same draft.

2005 - Brian Lee 9th overall
2006 - Erik Johnson 1st overall, Ty Wishart 16th overall
2007 - Thomas Hickey 4th overall
2008 - said to be the most stacked draft for D throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2009 - defenseman battling for 1st overall throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2010 - Erik Gudbranson 3rd overall
2011 - Adam Larsson 4th overall
2012 - said to be the most stacked draft for D throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2013 - defenseman battling for 1st overall throughout the draft year (noone had this to say for 2016)
2014 - Aaron Ekblad 1st overall, Haydn Fleury 7th overall
2015 - Noah Hanifin 5th overall
2016 - Olli Juolevi 5th overall

So given the history of the last 11 years. Knowing this draft not hyped up as a dmen draft as it were in 2008 and 2012, nor was there a dmen contending for 1st overall at any point during the draft year as it were in 2006, 2009, 2013 we're looking at Juolevi being somewhere here:

Brian Lee
Ty Wishart
Thomas Hickey
Erik Gudbranson
Adam Larsson
Haydn Fleury
Noah Hanifin

I love how you conveniently leave out doughty and hedmen

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Oh come on you can't say "Which team would have traded!?!" There was clear trades to and away from places in the 1st round for d-men who aren't far off Juolevi and have good shots at turning out better, even Chychrun at 15.

Prove it ? How come not a single pick in the top 10 moved if it was so easy to move up and down? Maybe it was easy from your couch

 

[Ainec]

I love how you conveniently leave out doughty and hedmen

remind me when Juolevi was up for 1st overall consideration as was Hedman

remind me when 2016 is considered anywhere near 2008 at the time of the draft

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

1. Horvat doesn't have top line potential

2. Virtanen is still a project. For a team lacking offense there was much better options

3. No the Canucks need a true #1 dman and Juolevi will never be that. Sergachev and even Chychrun have a better shot IMO.

1. Horvat does
3. Your opinion doesn't equal to the aboslute future, so Juolevi will possible be the #1 dmen we need

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

3. Your opinion doesn't equal to the aboslute future, so Juolevi will possible be the #1 dmen we need

I think the thing a lot of fans miss is that Benning's opinion doesn't equal the absolute future either.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I think the thing a lot of fans miss is that Benning's opinion doesn't equal the absolute future either.

So?
Many scouts had Juolevi as the best D in this draft.
He does have a top pair potential

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Prove it ? How come not a single pick in the top 10 moved if it was so easy to move up and down? Maybe it was easy from your couch

11th overall and 15th overall both moved and both those picks, IMO, are comparable to picking Juolevi in terms of actual value.

It comes down to how high you value a Juolevi in the org and I simply don't. He'll be a decent 3/4 d-man but there was a plethora of those throughout the top 20 picks.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

I agree with the OP. The defense is coming along well and appears to be set for the foreseeable future. Time now to concentrate on the offense.

We have two of the three overall positions looking good - Goaltending and defense.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

So?
Many scouts had Juolevi as the best D in this draft.
He does have a top pair potential

Juolevi doesn't really have anything to do with it. It's all the other moves he's done that some have undeservedly given a certain someone the benefit of the doubt. I like Juolevi, just don't see him as a #1 defenseman though.

 

[PM]

Even at it's peak I don't see that defense being in the top third of the league and there are a lot of question marks. Could be a half decent defense down the road but it doesn't resemble anything close to a contender in my opinion. Still a huge lack of offense and a lot is riding on OJ and Hutton. Not a good slapshot in the bunch either.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Even at it's peak I don't see that defense being in the top third of the league and there are a lot of question marks. Could be a half decent defense down the road but it doesn't resemble anything close to a contender in my opinion. Still a huge lack of offense and a lot is riding on OJ and Hutton. Not a good slapshot in the bunch either.

Gudbranson had a pretty decent shot in Jrs.

But yeah, I see it as more of a middle of the road defense that's somewhere the teens in the NHL at it's peak. You are really depending on a few dark horses to boom - Tryamkin, Subban, Stecher.

And I can guarantee you when we are a Cup contender again, Edler is in the twilight of his career and Tanev will not be the player he is today.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

We're on track to have possibly the worst blueline in team history next year, offensively at least. So, nowhere to go but up. The future is bright!

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

I really like whats happening with this back end renovation.
Its not over but progressing well.

Jim has added much needed muscle and beef and now just grabbed the most coveted junior Defenceman on the planet in Juolevi (Bob McKenzie) and College NCAA All-Tournament Team Troy Stecher from North Dakota.

The same people that were screaming murder for signing Gudbranson a few weeks ago and not a puck moving D are the same people that are now screaming murder for signing the best young pmd on the planet arguably.
Anything Benning and Linden do they will hate.
Ignore them.



Juolevi-Tanev
Hutton-Gudbranson
Edler-Tryamkin
Pedan-Subban-Stecher-Brisebois etc...

Marky/Demko



Benning hasn't been perfect and i haven't cosigned all of his moves but he has done a stellar job at rebuilding this D in less than 2 years with limited assets.

:LAUGH:

Is this for real?

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

I agree with the OP. The defense is coming along well and appears to be set for the foreseeable future. Time now to concentrate on the offense.

We have two of the three overall positions looking good - Goaltending and defense.

I agree on goaltending, solid... defense is mediocre, IMO. Very little offense will be generated from the back-end but it is fairly mobile with some toughness. The Canucks will likely be a top 10 defense team for goals against but they will also be a bottom 5 goals for team. And they aren't close on offense and if not for Boeser in the wings there's little to no hope there.

 

[Hammer79]

Not to mention that a smart, competent GM would have traded down and got the same player.

Can anyone actually state an instance lately where Benning has shown even reasonably good asset management?

If we swapped with the Flames, the Flames likely would have taken Juolevi. Tkachuk slid due to his skating and not having a complete game.

 

[PM]

If we swapped with the Flames, the Flames likely would have taken Juolevi. Tkachuk slid due to his skating and not having a complete game.

What? Where in the world did you get that baloney from?