Player Discussion Braden Schneider

[SA16]

Are you looking for mistakes on the ice to support the analytics or do you honestly think hes looked like shit out there?

Because I think he's been developing nicely and had a very good game last night, on the road in Boston against the leagues "best" team.

Also, is xG% the best stat to be looking at? Schneider is developing his offensive, but he's really a stay at home type of Dman. I get that possession, accuracy of passing and giveaways can lead to that number, but how useful is that stat for defenseman?

If he has been that atrocious then why would the coaching staff (who also use advanced metrics and analytics) continue to put him out there in his current role?

Yea I have at least 7 comments (not posted here) of particularly bad plays I thought he made over the past few games. I'd have to go to the video to pull up the timestamps. I can do it later if the games are actually in the ESPN+ archive if I can find them. I've noticed lots of poor positioning in front of the net and bad decision making with the puck.

I think this is just the case of liking a guy (cheap salary, home grown, former first) and not liking a guy (traded a 1st for, high salary) so everyone wants him to be better but he certainly has not been an improvement on Trouba in this role. Last night was better than other games but he had one really bad pass in his own zone where he blindly threw it backwards behind the net which ended up going directly to (I think) Marchand.

As for why they put him in his current role...what other choice do they have? They guy ahead of him on the depth chart is hurt and they had no other RHD until they traded for Ruhwedel. He was in a third pairing role with minimal to no PK time (he has 0 seconds PK time in 19 games this year) until they were forced to move him up.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Yea I have at least 7 comments (not posted here) of particularly bad plays I thought he made over the past few games. I'd have to go to the video to pull up the timestamps. I can do it later if the games are actually in the ESPN+ archive if I can find them. I've noticed lots of poor positioning in front of the net and bad decision making with the puck.

I think this is just the case of liking a guy (cheap salary, home grown, former first) and not liking a guy (traded a 1st for, high salary) so everyone wants him to be better but he certainly has not been an improvement on Trouba in this role. Last night was better than other games but he had one really bad pass in his own zone where he blindly threw it backwards behind the net which ended up going directly to (I think) Marchand.

As for why they put him in his current role...what other choice do they have? They guy ahead of him on the depth chart is hurt and they had no other RHD until they traded for Ruhwedel. He was in a third pairing role with minimal to no PK time (he has 0 seconds PK time in 19 games this year) until they were forced to move him up.

I've noticed some bad plays/giveaways too, so I'm not disputing that. No need to provide proof. Im not some ra-ra fan who disregards any and every bad decision or play.

Very few players are perfect however, he's only 22 and has a ways to go in his development to be considered a #1 pairing guy. But you also need to feed young players those minutes and opportunities to get their feet wet. You need to live with some of those mistakes. Defense is a very difficult position.

Are you not excited about his ceiling as a player? I personally think hes got a lot of tools to become a solid top 4 defensemen in the league for years. Or are you just disputing that he isnt a realistic replacement for Trouba - or are you defending Troubas worth despite the perceived consensus around here. Or do you just wanna tap the brakes on his value?

Thanks for the response

 

[jay from jersey]

Imo we should tread lightly with Robertson as well, imo he needs to get up with the club next year. When Schneider was in the AHL he looked average as well. Robertson has all the tools and WHL resume to go with it, need to give him some runway


I'd replace Trouba on that pairing, and I'd love to see a Jones and Trouba pair, one guy for the physical side and the other for skating and breakouts. Just run the three pairs then.

Imo Robertson needs to be on some teams bottom pair playing nhl minutes learning, making mistakes, being a rookie…..
He’s got the size/skating, can move the puck etc.
He’s never going to be a PP QB or light it up wherever he goes. He’s most effective when he keeps his game simple… I hope some team gives him a shot with a steady partner on their 3rd pair. I think he sticks tbh.
Sometimes kids stagnant when you let them sit in a situation for too long.
If our D doesn’t have the injuries, and jones doesn’t get his 2nd chance, I don’t know how he’d fair the rest of the year in Hartford tbh.
Timing and opportunity, but that’s life I guess.
It appears Scanlin may have passed him on the depth chart this season, if I’m Robertson, my drive/morale is at an all time low and I’m quietly asking/hoping for a trade.
He’s shown he’s got the goods, but he needs to prove his consistency.

In the Schneider side of things, I’d wager he becomes a better all around D then miller.
He has a better head on his shoulders for the game. He’s not the athlete KEY is, but he’s no slouch either

 

[bobbop]

Kid has really stepped up his game.He's ready for Troubas minutes permanently

While I’ve never bought into the Trouba hate around here, I have to believe that Drury and his consiglieres are seeing the same things we are seeing and weighting how this could play out this summer. There would be a robust market for Trouba at this point in his contract and career. Not advocating, but quite sure they may explore the market after the playoffs.

Imo Robertson needs to be on some teams bottom pair playing nhl minutes learning, making mistakes, being a rookie…..
He’s got the size/skating, can move the puck etc.
He’s never going to be a PP QB or light it up wherever he goes. He’s most effective when he keeps his game simple… I hope some team gives him a shot with a steady partner on their 3rd pair. I think he sticks tbh.
Sometimes kids stagnant when you let them sit in a situation for too long.
If our D doesn’t have the injuries, and jones doesn’t get his 2nd chance, I don’t know how he’d fair the rest of the year in Hartford tbh.
Timing and opportunity, but that’s life I guess.
It appears Scanlin may have passed him on the depth chart this season, if I’m Robertson, my drive/morale is at an all time low and I’m quietly asking/hoping for a trade.
He’s shown he’s got the goods, but he needs to prove his consistency.

In the Schneider side of things, I’d wager he becomes a better all around D then miller.
He has a better head on his shoulders for the game. He’s not the athlete KEY is, but he’s no slouch either

If that’s the case, someone should step up and make the Rangers an offer. He will be eminently available this summer.

 

[jay from jersey]

While I’ve never bought into the Trouba hate around here, I have to believe that Drury and his consiglieres are seeing the same things we are seeing and weighting how this could play out this summer. There would be a robust market for Trouba at this point in his contract and career. Not advocating, but quite sure they may explore the market after the playoffs.


If that’s the case, someone should step up and make the Rangers an offer. He will be eminently available this summer.

Yea, I think that’s what’s best for both parties TBH.
Maybe they can turn him in to a cost controlled 3C or at least some draft capital back.
Maybe there’s a youngster they have their eye on as a change of scenery type situation on another team…. I have no clue

 

[SA16]

I've noticed some bad plays/giveaways too, so I'm not disputing that. No need to provide proof. Im not some ra-ra fan who disregards any and every bad decision or play.

Very few players are perfect however, he's only 22 and has a ways to go in his development to be considered a #1 pairing guy. But you also need to feed young players those minutes and opportunities to get their feet wet. You need to live with some of those mistakes. Defense is a very difficult position.

Are you not excited about his ceiling as a player? I personally think hes got a lot of tools to become a solid top 4 defensemen in the league for years. Or are you just disputing that he isnt a realistic replacement for Trouba - or are you defending Troubas worth despite the perceived consensus around here. Or do you just wanna tap the brakes on his value?

Thanks for the response

I think Trouba is better than his reputation here and the fact that Schneider has stepped into his role and performed significantly worse helps show that (not saying I think he's worth his contract). He's young and has potential but he's certainly not there as a top four guy now. I don't think the coaching staff thinks that either. Right now they have no choice, and are locked into the 1 or 2 spot, so of course they should put him in this role and see what happens. The team is not better with Trouba out of the lineup.

It is a little weird though that someone of his style is not trusted to be a regular penalty killer when everyone is healthy. You would think that's the exact role he'd be played in but he's the clear cut #5 option (i.e. a lot of his PK minutes come when one of Lindgren/Trouba/Fox/Miller are the one who took the penalty). You'd think like he'd be regularly used there instead of Fox who is the key guy at 5v5 and on the PP to give Fox a bit of a rest but they don't do that.

I do like that he has focused more of defense in the last year though. Earlier in his career he would jump into the rush way too often which is not really ideal for a non-offensive guy.

 

[HolyHagelin]

I will also weigh in on the Trouba negativity being way overdone lately. I have only been on these boards basically since January, but over the past few years no player has had more whiplash inducing fan sentiment than Trouba.

The reality is he is a solid piece that plays huge minutes at the most important times for a team that has mostly been really good - and good at preventing goals - since he got here. No team ranks as high as the rangers do in GAA rankings if their highest minutes defenseman “sucks.” No team has a top 5 PK all year if 1/4 of the top PK unit is “hot garbage.”

He also is not as great as people have been claiming at times either.

He is a good to very good NHL defenseman capable of absorbing a lot of tough minutes, with a fairly unique upside (nowadays) of delivering game and series changing legal hits. He is almost certainly worth the contract, and with a few big hits in the playoffs, if they want to trade him they won’t have to retain.

 

[bhamill]

Schneider has been fine, a mistake or two per game from a 22 year old Dman? To be expected. Even though he’s been “awful” in some people’s estimations, in the last 5 games he is a +1 eating significant minutes against the better players of better teams or at least teams fighting for a playoff spot. Against the Bruins, one of the best in the league he ate 21 minutes, threw 8 hits, was even, blocked 3 shots and had an assist. That is far from awful.
I get that some guys are married to the fancy stats, but results are the bottom line. NYR have been winning with hm playing up in the lineup.
This isn’t a knock on Trouba btw; saying Schneider has stepped up is a positive for Scneids, not a negative on Trouba. It isn’t some kind of weird zero sum game.

 

[RangersFan1994]

 

[bl02]

Never seen a guy take a hit to make a play like this kid. Fearless.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Never seen a guy take a hit to make a play like this kid. Fearless.

He has been our best Dman when it comes to playing through Floridas hits imo.

 

[bl02]

He has been our best Dman when it comes to playing through Floridas hits imo.

With Fox playing at probably 75 percent one could say he is one of the most important players on the roster. How Trouba is still getting 5-6 min more per game than him is hard to believe.
Oh wait maybe that's cause Trouba gets stuck on the ice for extended shifts getting buried in his own zone.

 

[NickyFotiu]

With Fox playing at probably 75 percent one could say he is one of the most important players on the roster. How Trouba is still getting 5-6 min more per game than him is hard to believe.
Oh wait maybe that's cause Trouba gets stuck on the ice for extended shifts getting buried in his own zone.

Watching Fox and Trouba skate at times is hard. I suspect they are both in some pain not just Fox. Id play Brandon much more.

 

[SA16]

He has the worst CF% and xG% of any dman on the team this series which matches my eye test of him having absolutely zero positional awareness on the ice.

 

[huerter]

You might say all the dmen are in one right now and the team as a whole needs to play crisper and also Trouba is Mayfield.

 

[TGWL]

Vincent Z. Mercogliano says from an anonymous person with knowledge of the situation, they're making progress with Schneider on a bridge deal (likely two or three years) for an average annual value in the range of $2.5 million.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Vincent Z. Mercogliano says from an anonymous person with knowledge of the situation, they're making progress with Schneider on a bridge deal (likely two or three years) for an average annual value in the range of $2.5 million.

Wish he got more term. I feel he will be here long term.

 

[bl02]

Would be nice one day to sign one of these guys to like 5-8 years.

 

[Profet]

Would be nice one day to sign one of these guys to like 5-8 years.

I'm sure it'll be Lindgren.

 

[will1066]

Would be nice one day to sign one of these guys to like 5-8 years.

There might be some overcorrection/PTSD by Drury on giving out long-term contracts too casually. In Schneider's case, he still needs to have another good year to really tell everyone that he's legit.

 

[bl02]

There might be some overcorrection/PTSD by Drury on giving out long-term contracts too casually. In Schneider's case, he still needs to have another good year to really tell everyone that he's legit.

I understand but at some point we have to take a bit of a "risk" with these younger players unless its the player that doesn't wanna do it???
We have pretty much no one behind Schneider. I know Emery is a RHD but he could be 4-5 years away from making an impact.
I know its a bit of hindsight but Lafreniere same thing. Now instead of maybe 5-6 million working it might be 7-9 million range.

 

[SA16]

I understand but at some point we have to take a bit of a "risk" with these younger players unless its the player that doesn't wanna do it???
We have pretty much no one behind Schneider. I know Emery is a RHD but he could be 4-5 years away from making an impact.
I know its a bit of hindsight but Lafreniere same thing. Now instead of maybe 5-6 million working it might be 7-9 million range.

I would much rather pay Laf 7-9M knowing that he is worth it than paying him 5-6M hoping that he will be worth it and potentially be wrong.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I would much rather pay Laf 7-9M knowing that he is worth it than paying him 5-6M hoping that he will be worth it and potentially be wrong.

Yes but he's already worth 5-6M.

 

[n8]

Yes but he's already worth 5-6M.

I think you all agree on that. The question is would you rather pay:

5 years x 5M
OR
8 years x 8M

Schneider is probably a 3M player right now. You could get more term if you pay him 4M
This summer,
Jokiharju got 3.1M
TJ Brodie got 3.75M (Chicago overpaying)
Ghostbear at 3.2M
Lyubushkin at 3.25M (then can't play anymore, lol?)
Jake Middleton at $4.35M
Joel Edmundson inexplicably at 3.85M
Alex Carrier 3.75M
Sean Walker 3.6M
Dillon 4M

 

[SA16]

Yes but he's already worth 5-6M.

He wasn't before this season