Tribute Brad Treliving - offseason so far

[Nineteen67]

Do we care about the regular season now?

Address it for the playoffs.

Every year we lack scoring, not defensive play when the playoffs roll around.

Maybe new coaching is all we need, but it seems weird to see a team that played well defensive and struggled offensively and then think the solution to that is to get more defensive.

They’re trying to get to the second and third round and there was 0 percent chance their D was good enough and needed an upgrade. He nibbled but he didn’t do much because of the cap situation. He literally pushed the problem down the road for the new GM to try to fix beginning next summer.

 

[Roo]

Do our good GA numbers and poor GF numbers in virtually every single playoff tell us that we need to tighten up D and not score more?

What factual information tells you this?

How'd the PP get better? Anything other than your opinion?

Do we care about the regular season now?

Address it for the playoffs.

Every year we lack scoring, not defensive play when the playoffs roll around.

Maybe new coaching is all we need, but it seems weird to see a team that played well defensive and struggled offensively and then think the solution to that is to get more defensive.

First off, of course this my opinion. It's a message board, we're all just posting our opinions.

I may be the first to suggest that we DO have a regular season problem. What is it? We've never been the best team in our division, save for one bubble year. Despite our offense clicking in the regular season, we still haven't ever been the best team in the East. Have we been a strong defensive team, or one that relies on outscoring our opponents?

Fast forward to the playoffs, every team has employed the same strategy of taking away our time and space to beat us... and we haven't really had an answer. This purely comes down to systems and strategy, an area where we really lacked with Keefe. That said, I was impressed with the fact we pivoted to a 'dump and chase' style of hockey midway through the Boston series and that got us back in it. However, that is playing into the strategy of your opponent, not pushing your own game. It's difficult to make a big change like this when the playoffs begin. You can't just flip a switch.

The Power Play? Again, good in the regular season when playing a bunch of different teams, but it was predictably poor in the playoffs. Why? Because we really only used PP1 in the regular season. When teams strategized to neutralize it, we had no answer. How good could your second unit be when they barely get PP time in the regular season? It was one of my biggest annoyances with Keefe and co., but the good regular season performance didn't cause many to complain. It was especially confusing as we had enough talent to have two strong units. I expect a more balanced PP, that focuses on getting as much 'garbage goals' as pretty ones, and really gives the ice time to those that deserve it.

Is coaching the only answer? Probably not, but it was clear to me 'our game' wasn't cut for playoff hockey. That should change with Berube, and we will find out who fits and who doesn't this year.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Adding a new coach and retooling the blue line with older vets is certainly a strategy to improve the offence in the playoffs. Particularly with a core group that's demonstrated incapable time and time again.

No changes to the bottom 6 or added scoring depth either. Really leaning on prospects and young players taking a leap.

Did fine with the goaltending

Did fine improving the overall defense for this year and maybe next, but there is some concern with that term. Bigger, more dynamic.

A solid C from me

The only saving grace is with a rising cap and Marner/Tavares' contracts coming off the books, the blue line is relatively cost effective (for better or worse) and McCabe's pending UFA status would allow Trev to go find a legit upgrade with some of that cap space, while also retooling the offense.

Sadly it seems the Trev and Shanahan are ok with running it back for one more shot under a new coach, and if it doesn't work, letting Marner and Tavares walk in free agency. Par for the course in asset management.

 

[notbias]

They’re trying to get to the second and third round and there was 0 percent chance their D was good enough and needed an upgrade. He nibbled but he didn’t do much because of the cap situation. He literally pushed the problem down the road for the new GM to try to fix beginning next summer.

He had $20 million to spend this offseason and he spent over $12 million on D, I don't see a cap issue.

 

[Nineteen67]

He had $20 million to spend this offseason and he spent over $12 million on D, I don't see a cap issue.

53% of the cap is spent on four players. Four average to above average players.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

It’s a D+

tanev got too much for 6yrs
OEL got way too much imo, idk if he should’ve been the target tbh
Domi is a good signing
Stolarz is a good signing
I don’t mind the gamble on woll
Hakanpanna is meh, I like Benoit though so I don’t like this deal too much
I hate Liljegren still on the team

We brought no forward to replace bertuzzi.
We didn’t bring anyone in to play LW
We are running with the current core back

if we didn’t run the core 4 back I could’ve given it a C. Nothing too bad, nothing too good, but no real swings at anyone.

 

[Dreakmur]

A very average C. He did the bare minimum he had to do. Zero trades of significance. Nothing outrageously bad. Changed the coach. Upgraded the D a bit. Goaltending is fine. Offense is pretty much the same.

If you're happy with the bare minimum, that's ok.

I agree that he just did the basic necessity moves, but I'm not sure what else can even be done. If Marner doesn't want to move then his hands are tied.

 

[BraveCanadian]

All I can say is I wish I got paid what he does for the amount he has to do.

That being said, Dubas did paint the team into a corner as far as assets and cap go so there is only so much that can be done realistically.

 

[notbias]

53% of the cap is spent on four players. Four average to above average players.

Can I ask how that matters or takes away from the $12 million spent on D this offseason?

They had $20 million in cap to spend, they chose to spend $12 million on OEL, Tanev, Hakanpaa, and Liljegren.

That seems like a very large investment.

 

[Dreakmur]

He had $20 million to spend this offseason and he spent over $12 million on D, I don't see a cap issue.

He had 20 million, but we had a lot of needs. A #2/3 to play with Rielly, #2/3 to anchor the 2nd pairing, and #4/5 D....top-6 winger to play with Matthews, top-9winger, 3C to push Kampf down to 3C, and a 1B goalie.

You'd need at least 30 million to address that well in UFA. The only real #2 defenseman available signed for 7 million in a low tax state. Most of the best #3s got around 5.5 million. Most #4/5s got around 3.5 million. That's 16 of the 20 million just on 3 of our 7 needs. The top-6 forwards got around 5.5 million. The top-9 guys got around 3.5. The 3Cs for around 4 million, and the 1B goalies got around 2.5. That's a total of 30.5 million...... 20 seems like it may not do the trick, eh?

Our checklist:
#2/3 D - Tanev, check (4.5)
#2/3 D - Liljegren, fail(3.0)
#4/5 D - OEL, check (3.5)

Top-6 Winger - Domi, check (3.75)
Top-9 WInger - none, fail
3C - none, fail

1B Goalie - Stolarz - check (2.5)


He spent 18.75 to sign 5 of our 7 needs. 4 of those 5 were quite good pickups, and 3 of those 4 signed for reasonable (or even discounted) cap numbers. We didn't really need Hakenpaa, but 1.5 is fine for a good #5/6 D.

 

[colchar]

but these contracts are going to be hard to deal with in a year or two. I’m thinking to next off season and wondering how the new GM will unravel this mess.

Ridiculous. You've just disqualified yourself from further participation in the discussion.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

The quality of his GMing matches his pizzas.

 

[Dreakmur]

Can I ask how that matters or takes away from the $12 million spent on D this offseason?

They had $20 million in cap to spend, they chose to spend $12 million on OEL, Tanev, Hakanpaa, and Liljegren.

That seems like a very large investment.

We needed defensemen a lot more than we needed forwards... seems pretty simple.

The whole point of paying those forwards is that they're supposed to carry the offensive load while being surrounded by cheaper pieces. If they can't do that, then signing an extra 3rd line winger isn't going to solve anything.

 

[notbias]

He had 20 million, but we had a lot of needs. A #2/3 to play with Rielly, #2/3 to anchor the 2nd pairing, and #4/5 D....top-6 winger to play with Matthews, top-9winger, 3C to push Kampf down to 3C, and a 1B goalie.

Didn't get a 1B.

Didn't get a #2/3 for the second pairing.

I guess OEL is a #5 with an upside though.

Didn't get a 3C.

Didn't get a top 9 winger.

So Treliving spent so horribly that he filled 2 maybe 3 of the 7 needs we had? He had $20 million to do so...

I can't believe you think this poorly of him.

You'd need at least 30 million to address that well in UFA. The only real #2 defenseman available signed for 7 million in a low tax state. Most of the best #3s got around 5.5 million. Most #4/5s got around 3.5 million. That's 16 of the 20 million just on 3 of our 7 needs. The top-6 forwards got around 5.5 million. The top-9 guys got around 3.5. The 3Cs for around 4 million, and the 1B goalies got around 2.5. That's a total of 30.5 million...... 20 seems like it may not do the trick, eh?

Our checklist:
#2/3 D - Tanev, check (4.5)
#2/3 D - Liljegren, fail(3.0)
#4/5 D - OEL, check (3.5)

Top-6 Winger - Domi, check (3.75)
Top-9 WInger - none, fail
3C - none, fail

1B Goalie - Stolarz - check (2.5)


He spent 18.75 to sign 5 of our 7 needs. 4 of those 5 were quite good pickups, and 3 of those 4 signed for reasonable (or even discounted) cap numbers. We didn't really need Hakenpaa, but 1.5 is fine for a good #5/6 D.

Disagree with your player evaluation.

Can start by saying how Stolarz is a 1B when the most games he has started is 24.

Would be curious how a career backup is now a 1B at the age of 30 when never playing more than 1/3 of the season.

 

[-DeMo-]

The Leafs scored 1.71 goals per game in the playoffs, which was the worst of any team. They also gave up the 5th fewest against of any playoff team. I can't say that I agree with the vision of getting older and neglecting the offense to bolster the defense on a team that constantly fails to score in the playoffs but typically has pretty good defensive results

we were the 2nd highest scoring team in the league behind only Colorado who had 3 more goals. when people talk about needing more offense it's just incorrect, it's the type of offense because it's not realistic for this team to put up 30-40 more goals then anyone else in the regular season, which is basically what you proposing we need to do.

by improving the Defense maybe the offensive guys get more puck time and can cheat a little more for offense knowing they have a good goalie and Defense to back them up thus leading to more goals in the playoffs. or they will simply have more chances because we wont spend as much time in our own end.

I like his free agent signings. His mission was to improve the defense and he's done it.

Improving the defense which can be argued either way and making it a strength of the team is two different arguments. are we better? maybe is our defense a top 10 defense league wide on paper? no it's clearly not. so even if it's better it's still not good enough. the goal should have been to get a top tier defense this summer we failed to do that

 

[thusk]

The Leafs scored 1.71 goals per game in the playoffs, which was the worst of any team. They also gave up the 5th fewest against of any playoff team. I can't say that I agree with the vision of getting older and neglecting the offense to bolster the defense on a team that constantly fails to score in the playoffs but typically has pretty good defensive results

This is kind of Tunnel vision type of comment.

The fact leafs played a pretty conservative style with foward staying low and taking minimum of risk to minimize at maximum workload coming from D doesn't mean than your D is good enough but only than you needing to overprotecting your D.

upgrade your D, you will be able to allow more liberty to the guys in frontwithout risking to be hirt everytime they taking s risk.

 

[Nineteen67]

Can I ask how that matters or takes away from the $12 million spent on D this offseason?

They had $20 million in cap to spend, they chose to spend $12 million on OEL, Tanev, Hakanpaa, and Liljegren.

That seems like a very large investment.

There was wasn’t much available that would put them in Eastern contention. They overpaid and got Tanev and some scraps. The issue has been going for 6 yrs and this year it looks like there might be a lot of 11/7/2 lineups as the season plays out.

 

[thusk]

Didn't get a 1B.

Didn't get a #2/3 for the second pairing.

I guess OEL is a #5 with an upside though.

Didn't get a 3C.

Didn't get a top 9 winger.

So Treliving spent so horribly that he filled 2 maybe 3 of the 7 needs we had? He had $20 million to do so...

I can't believe you think this poorly of him.



Disagree with your player evaluation.

Can start by saying how Stolarz is a 1B when the most games he has started is 24.

Would be curious how a career backup is now a 1B at the age of 30 when never playing more than 1/3 of the season.

Even at 34, Tanev is still one of best D defensive side of the puck in the entire NHL. He's certainly a 1B alongside an offensive guy like Rielly.

I heard a lot about people wanting Roy and considerate him like a #3... but sorry Roy is pretty similar McCabe so if Roy is a good #3, that's meaning Mccabe is a good #3.

And they will play probably with OEL as #4 who bring a 2 way game, a think leafs really needed.

 

[notbias]

Even at 34, Tanev is still one of best D defensive side of the puck in the entire NHL. He's certainly a 1B alongside an offensive guy like Rielly.

I heard a lot about people wanting Roy and considerate him like a #3... but sorry Roy is pretty similar McCabe so if Roy is a good #3, that's meaning Mccabe is a good #3.

And they will play probably with OEL as #4 who bring a 2 way game, a think leafs really needed.

Tanev has too much term, but he fits the criteria of a 2/3 beside Rielly, no issue with the player, just an issue with the term and the potential that he continues to play past when he is an effective top 4 option.

The 1B was in reference to Stolarz who has never started more than 24 games in his career and is 30.

OEL in the top 4 is also scary.

His contract is a gamble.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Trying to build a team through free agency is not a great way to do it, but the lack of assets Dubas left makes it at least somewhat necessary.

He picked up a few decent pieces at "not bad for FA prices".

Now that the feeding frenzy is over, let's see what he can do trading.

As for Marner, we'll see. I'd rather he play out the season and walk than have us make a bad trade just to get rid of him, or even worse, re-sign him.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Do we care about the regular season now?

Address it for the playoffs.

Every year we lack scoring, not defensive play when the playoffs roll around.

Maybe new coaching is all we need, but it seems weird to see a team that played well defensive and struggled offensively and then think the solution to that is to get more defensive.

The problems we had scoring against Boston basically stem from:

- our two best players missing a combined 5 games, and probably not at their best in some of the others
- out other two 'top players' doing their usual disappearing act
- minimal contribution from the D, and not just on the scoreboard.

Hopefully the first doesn't recur, the second is hard to deal with this season, and there has been some progress in addressing the last.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I agree that he just did the basic necessity moves, but I'm not sure what else can even be done. If Marner doesn't want to move then his hands are tied.

Basically the same for all four of the 'core', yet some posters will continue to whine that he didn't do anything to the 'core'.

I'm not sure what they expected other than an excuse to complain.

 

[darrylsittler27]

What we learned is Tre has no magic wand. He is judged on his ability to fix horrible mistakes with not enough cap and no picks. By the way fix the prospect pool too. We are getting bigger as our stars' get older. Only took 7 years.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Poor cap management but nothing new for this B-team

 

[Menzinger]

I agree that he just did the basic necessity moves, but I'm not sure what else can even be done. If Marner doesn't want to move then his hands are tied.

Though we dont really know what has been the case regarding that - ie has the front office even seriously considered trading him and what efforts did they try to make it happen if they did? Those of us on the outside looking in can only guess....

For all we know there has been a conscious decision from Tre and the front office to not even try to change the core.