Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[Evilhomer]

I watched Dubas after he fired the coach. Hadn't seen him in awhile and was struck by how diminished he looked and sounded, it was quite something compared to his persona here. I don't think he lasts, they're in for a couple dismal years and his linguistics abilities don't have the same resonance, his confidence looked shot...or at least his narcissistic arrogance that he knows best was shaken. The press seemed hostile as well.

A couple years? Barring a first overall pick next season, I think Pittsburgh is in for many years of a tough rebuild. Dubas has done well to stockpile a lot of picks, but they are staring down a full rebuild, not just a re-tooling like Washington.

 

[colchar]

I will say this in his defense though, he has a really hot sister.

Prove it.

And which one of the four are you talking about?

 

[colchar]

Correct because at the end of the day that's all the counts.

You can say they had the fewest 5 on 5 goals against in 2021 all you want.

It doesn't matter because at the end of the day they lost in 7.

You need to understand something you can't win an argument anymore.

It's over it's done, any argument you thought you had in favour of Keefe and Dubas or against Treliving and Berbue is over.

it ended the moment they won that 6th game regardless of how this playoffs ends

you and the rest of the cult of Kyle dubas

you lost

Just like the Dubas & Keefe teams (and not just in Toronto!).

 

[colchar]

Did you just come on here after an OT loss to update this?

My point here is that this team seems different to me. I believe this has to do with all of the new personnel, the new captain, the new coaches, and the new GM. Possibly the new CEO too.

Do you not think this team is different and purpose built for the playoffs than in previous years?

It's a yes or no question.

They are different, but I don't think Captain America has much to do with it.

 

[conFABulator]

They are different, but I don't think Captain America has much to do with it.

I don't know that any of us have any ability to know how any item impacts an overall change in culture.

Maybe JT gracefully accepting the letter swap to let AM34 be the C was a classic leadership by example moment? Maybe it showed everyone that team before self is the (new) way? Maybe everyone seeing Auston step up to be C and take on extra pressure in doing so was a commitment to winning here? Maybe he brings something different to the room that we don't see?

 

[Dekes For Days]

If you’re going to claim you “provided evidence” that Byram lost five pounds post-combine, the burden is on you to back it with credible, consistent sources

If you're going to claim that Byram was the same weight in 2022 as he is now 3 years later, in pursuit of your silly size narrative, then the burden is on you to back it up with credible, consistent sources.

I provided the weight that both the Colorado Avalanche and Colorado's AHL affiliate listed him as within months of that playoffs, consistent with other sources at that time like the Denver Post. You have brought absolutely nothing from that timeframe or the years surrounding it to support your claim.

Citation please. Regular season stats aren't relevant to the discussion anyway

Citation? It's just 5v5 scoring lol. Look it up yourself on any stat site or NHL.com. I used Moneypuck. Of course regular season matters to this discussion. It's literally the only possible way to get a baseline for how good the teams were at 5v5 scoring, to see how we impacted their usual results. I also noted that we did better than both Winnipeg and Vegas against the same opponent in the playoffs.

You don’t think shot blocking impacts defensive performance? That’s interesting, considering every NHL team makes it a core part of their strategy.

Every NHL team does not make it a core part of their strategy. Shot blocking is one of many different defensive actions. It doesn't really say anything about a team's overall defensive results. It could indicate good defensive play, or it could indicate a team that just gets peppered with shot attempts. The 3 worst defensive teams in the league this year, for example, were all top-5 shot blocking teams.

I see, you brought it into the discussion

I didn't bring it into the discussion. You just randomly started talking about it out of nowhere to deflect from the fact that you're wrong.

 

[Apex Predator]

Did you just come on here after an OT loss to update this?

My point here is that this team seems different to me. I believe this has to do with all of the new personnel, the new captain, the new coaches, and the new GM. Possibly the new CEO too.

Do you not think this team is different and purpose built for the playoffs than in previous years?

It's a yes or no question.

I love how there answer to yes or no is I think he did a fairly good job while sacrificing the future lol

Dubas did the exact same sacrificing the future but cant admit yes the team is built differently for the playoffs and this is why they are more successful.

 

[conFABulator]

I love how there answer to yes or no is I think he did a fairly good job while sacrificing the future lol

Dubas did the exact same sacrificing the future but cant admit yes the team is built differently for the playoffs and this is why they are more successful.

Yeah, that wasn't lost on me also. We have up two firsts (mid to late 20's) and Minten and Grebenkin. Minten is the loss here, but he will not give us Laughton is giving us over the next couple of years and Carlo rounds out our top four for the next couple of years

We kept Cowan, Danford, and the two goalies. We have Quillan also, don't sleep on him as a fourth line C. We signed a couple NCAA and CHL guys and we may go out and get a Euro too. Now is the time to read futures and they did it for guys with term.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This years defence has a better top four and it does matter that everyone up there plays on their strong side. Yes Babcock cared but so did Dubas eventually given his trades for Lyubushkin and Schenn back to back. There’s also no rookie who’s getting trial by fired in the middle of a playoff series like Sandin was who could screw up with overly risky plays or rookie mistakes.

Our current top 4 isn't better than it was that year. This team also has the same number of LHD and RHD as we did back then. The only real difference is that back then, one of our LHD was really good on the right side, and regularly played there long before he joined us. While it's nice to have equal LHD and RHD, it's not very common among cup winners or anyone else, and it doesn't make much of a difference. That's not the main reason why we got Lyubushkin and Schenn. And while I know many love to exaggerate any mistake a player like Sandin (who only played part of the series) made because we lost, rookies aren't inherently bad, and they are far from the only ones to make mistakes. We've seen plenty of mistakes this year.

Either the referenced stat means a team has the best D in the NHL or it doesn't. One cannot claim that X means Y while simultaneously claiming that X doesn't mean Y in previous instances.

I guess it doesn't really matter anymore, because we've dropped to 7th in 5v5 goal prevention this playoffs anyway.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This is the best version of our team though.
It's not about the point totals is about the buy in.

It's not the best version of our team though. It's not just about the point totals. It's countless different measures of team quality saying the same thing. There is no difference in "buy in". You just think that because the team is currently winning.

This team so far doesn't get rattled.

Lol. How many multi-goal leads have we given up again?

Correct because at the end of the day that's all the counts.

Everybody wants playoff wins, but there is a lot more to discuss.

You can say they had the fewest 5 on 5 goals against in 2021 all you want.
It doesn't matter because at the end of the day they lost in 7.

It was the only thing that mattered in that discussion, because the discussion was specifically about 5v5 goals against and what it meant, not series outcomes.

It's over it's done, any argument you thought you had in favour of Keefe and Dubas or against Treliving and Berbue is over. it ended the moment they won that 6th game regardless of how this playoffs ends

Lol no, that's not how hockey works. Learn to understand the game beyond just looking up how many playoff wins we have.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Playoff wins are irrelevant. We should've trusted the process that won us one round in five years

Do I have that right?

 

[eddieO]

I had a great marriage, fundamentally sound. Unfortunately, ran into the outcome of divorce.

Now, I’m happily married but it’s just not as strong of a marriage as my last one. I’m so glad I happened upon this thread because, for a moment, I thought my happy marriage was better. Thanks!

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It's not the best version of our team though. It's not just about the point totals. It's countless different measures of team quality saying the same thing. There is no difference in "buy in". You just think that because the team is currently winning.

Lol. How many multi-goal leads have we given up again?

Everybody wants playoff wins, but there is a lot more to discuss.

It was the only thing that mattered in that discussion, because the discussion was specifically about 5v5 goals against and what it meant, not series outcomes.

Lol no, that's not how hockey works. Learn to understand the game beyond just looking up how many playoff wins we have.

You don't get it, any time you try to make an argument in favor of Dubas or Keefe all anyone has to say is that Berube and Treliving got more playoff wins in less than 2 years for Treliving

And less than a year for Berube

Then Dubas and Keefe did in about 5 years.

You will have no counter for that because you can't counter that because It's true.

Treliving and Berube have done a significantly better job then Dubas and Keefe ever did because they have gotten fruther in much MUCH less time that is an objective fact that you cannot realistically dispute.

Although I have no doubt you will try to pull something out of your ass.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Our current top 4 isn't better than it was that year.

It very much is. Muzzin being better all-around than Tanev does not mean that the rest of that group, Rielly, Brodie, and Holl, is better than Rielly, McCabe and Carlo.

This team also has the same number of LHD and RHD as we did back then.

Not in the top four we don't. Brodie was a LD playing with Rielly, Carlo is a RD playing with Rielly.

That's not the main reason why we got Lyubushkin and Schenn.

It absolutely is an important reason though. Dubas even said as much.

"Dubas: For us, we don’t really have a lot of guys who have his utility. He is obviously a big, strong, right-shot defenseman. He is strong defensively, able to kill penalties, and plays with a little more physicality than what we may have."

And while I know many love to exaggerate any mistake a player like Sandin (who only played part of the series) made because we lost, rookies aren't inherently bad, and they are far from the only ones to make mistakes. We've seen plenty of mistakes this year.

That's how it usually goes. Galchenyuk got raked over the coals that year too. So did Kerfoot in 2022. Asuton and Mitch have taken more than their fair share. Woll is currently getting called out for allowing a crappy goal (or two) against last night. The main point though is that a rookie is more prone to those mistakes, especially on defence. It's more on Keefe for putting Sandin back into the lineup after game 4, but Rasmus still screwed up.

Either the referenced stat means a team has the best D in the NHL or it doesn't. One cannot claim that X means Y while simultaneously claiming that X doesn't mean Y in previous instances.

I'm not even married to that stance, it was more tongue in cheek. I will argue though that this is the best defence the Leafs have had in the Matthews era.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The thing is, you haven't proven me wrong. The bigger thing is that you really seem to need to prove me wrong.

I actually mistook you for Cabanaboy, because you were both saying the same thing and using the same specific stats. My mistake. Though it seems like most of what I said still applies, because your response is following the same path... I'm not sure how you came to the idea that I "need to prove you wrong" when you're the one who first replied to me and tried to push your narratives. I don't really care what you choose to believe, but if you start a conversation, I'm going to respond.

First of all, when I say this team "seems" different to me, or that they are playing with more accountability you have not proven me wrong, because they still "seem" that way to me.

Okay, but that's not actually based on anything and perception can be easily warped, so I don't know what that has to do with me.

My opinion and it remains the same is that this team seems different and perhaps more well positioned and built for the playoffs.

There isn't any evidence that we are better built for the playoffs, but we are well positioned, so that's good.

Telling me they have had more points than the 108 they had this year is not proof that another team was better than this one. That could speak to dozens of factors, league parity being one of them, which I already mentioned. Five teams made the playoffs from our division. Maybe getting points off Montreal and Ottawa (and Detroit) wasn't as easy as it used to be?

It's not just point totals that show that. I posted quite a bit more. But also, your argument is faulty. It may be harder to get points off of Montreal, Ottawa, and Detroit, but it's simultaneously easier to get points off of Boston, Tampa, and Florida. That doesn't change the overall difficulty of obtaining points.

However, it is a fact that they have never won an Atlantic division before this year. They had that as a start goal in the past. This team reached there goal. It is another fact that Ottawa was one of the best teams in the East since January 1 and these Leafs beat them in six R1. Something a Leaf team has done in this era only once. It is another fact that this Leaf team is up 2-0 in R2. Something no Leaf team has done in 37 years.

Yes. We won the Atlantic and are getting good outcomes in the playoffs so far. Those facts aren't the issue. People isolating them without context to push their false narratives about why is when it becomes an issue.

So, you can show me stats that support the position this team is no better than previous Leaf teams, but is it possible you are measuring only a subset of indicators with those stats?

I literally looked at a bunch of different measures (including dozens of stats) so I could get the full unbiased picture. You're the one picking out our best stretches to flatter us, and trying to define our team by one specific stat that isn't just about us.

How do you measure calm? How do you measure the opponent feeling pressure to move the puck quickly? How do you measure counter punching quickly after the other team scores?

Those are expressed in on-ice performance, which is captured in the advanced stats.

Are you looking at the blocked shot and hit totals?

I have, but those are playstyle stats, not quality or result stats, and they do not have any real correlation with winning. We're actually hitting less in the playoffs than we have in recent history despite having the puck less, and while we block more, we also allow more shot attempts to block in the first place, so the blocks are really just countering that, not getting us ahead.

There have been playoffs in the past where the advanced stats said we should have won a game or series that we didn't, maybe playoffs have a different recipe.

Advanced stats don't say that "we should have won". They explain why we lost. But some are so consumed by blaming one individual for everything that they ignore why we actually lost and fabricate their own narratives.

Anyway, when I share my perspective maybe you shouldn't try so hard to change that perspective.

Again, you're the one that replied to me and tried to push your perspective. If you're going to do that, you should be able to handle your perspective being challenged.

Another opinion I have is that you have painted yourself into such pro-Dubas corner that it seems to have taken away from your ability to enjoy a good run here.

Lol not even close. I'm having a blast and have been cheering us on every step of the way. I'm just not going to make up false narratives about what's happening and why. The only corner I'm in is pro-truth, and there's nothing about this run that is at odds with my position. In fact, I'm the one who kept saying we'd eventually hit a run like this, so don't ruin a good thing, while a lot of this board wanted to blow it up out of impatience, and were undermining their own argument as recently as game 5 of the first round.

 

[authentic]

You see listings all the time that just seem outdated, recycled, maybe even just flat out wrong. I remember Cody Franson going from something like 6'5" 210 to 6'5" 238 immediately or overnight when he was moved from Leafs to either Nashville or Buffalo.

Evgeni Malkin has been listed 6'3" 195 for almost his entire career, he's suddenly listed as 6'5" 210 this year at age 38, Crosby's just been listed 5'11" 200 his entire career even though his weight had fluctuated quite a bit.

Training camp rosters often show a lot of new heights/weights for players but that doesn't necessarily translate to what they're listed as on the website.

I always thought Malkin looked more like 6’4 than 6’3

 

[conFABulator]

I actually mistook you for Cabanaboy, because you were both saying the same thing and using the same specific stats. My mistake. Though it seems like most of what I said still applies, because your response is following the same path... I'm not sure how you came to the idea that I "need to prove you wrong" when you're the one who first replied to me and tried to push your narratives. I don't really care what you choose to believe, but if you start a conversation, I'm going to respond.

Okay, but that's not actually based on anything and perception can be easily warped, so I don't know what that has to do with me.

There isn't any evidence that we are better built for the playoffs, but we are well positioned, so that's good.

It's not just point totals that show that. I posted quite a bit more. But also, your argument is faulty. It may be harder to get points off of Montreal, Ottawa, and Detroit, but it's simultaneously easier to get points off of Boston, Tampa, and Florida. That doesn't change the overall difficulty of obtaining points.

Yes. We won the Atlantic and are getting good outcomes in the playoffs so far. Those facts aren't the issue. People isolating them without context to push their false narratives about why is when it becomes an issue.

I literally looked at a bunch of different measures (including dozens of stats) so I could get the full unbiased picture. You're the one picking out our best stretches to flatter us, and trying to define our team by one specific stat that isn't just about us.

Those are expressed in on-ice performance, which is captured in the advanced stats.

I have, but those are playstyle stats, not quality or result stats, and they do not have any real correlation with winning. We're actually hitting less in the playoffs than we have in recent history despite having the puck less, and while we block more, we also allow more shot attempts to block in the first place, so the blocks are really just countering that, not getting us ahead.

Advanced stats don't say that "we should have won". They explain why we lost. But some are so consumed by blaming one individual for everything that they ignore why we actually lost and fabricate their own narratives.

Again, you're the one that replied to me and tried to push your perspective. If you're going to do that, you should be able to handle your perspective being challenged.

Lol not even close. I'm having a blast and have been cheering us on every step of the way. I'm just not going to make up false narratives about what's happening and why. The only corner I'm in is the pro-truth, and there's nothing about this run that is at odds with my position. In fact, I'm the one who kept saying we'd eventually hit a run like this, so don't ruin a good thing, while the majority of this board wanted to blow it up out of impatience, and were undermining their own argument as recently as game 5 of the first round.

You started this post by acknowledging that you replied to me in error. I believe you were saying that you didn't mean to say you had "proved me wrong" because you meant to tell CabanaBoy and not me that you had proven him wrong.

...then you go on to say that "I'm not sure how you came to the idea that I 'need to prove you wrong'". Huh? Maybe because you told me that my feelings and opinions "were proven wrong".

I don't think you understand what "feel" and "seem" mean. When I say they "seem different to me" what I am saying is that they seem different to me. Why do you feel I am pushing a perspective on you?

I am not anti-advanced stat, nor am I anti-Dubas. I was a fan of Dubas' work and was disappointed when they parted ways, I was also not sold on Treliving (or Berube) as the right choice. Having said all of this, this team feels different to me and more playoff ready to me.

Can you accept this? I don't need advanced stats or comparisons to previous years to try to convince me that I am incorrect or falling for an illusion or buying into someone's narrative.

I have watched hockey for 40+ years, coached for several, and have run businesses and teams. I believe in intangibles. I believe in experience, determination, calm, poise, grit and drive.

You may say that the value of those intangibles will ultimately manifest in advanced stats. Possibly. I feel that looking at this team's regular season stats in comparison to previous regular seasons may not tell the whole story. Previous Leaf teams did not carry regular season performance into the playoffs...they had let downs. What if this team doesn't have that drop off? What if they get better in the playoffs? What if this is because this team and staff have experience, determination, calm, poise, grit and drive?

I also put stock in momentum and accomplishment. This team set the goal to win the division and they did that. They are 11-4 (and 19-7-1) down the stretch in the playoffs.

So please, read this as a guy talking about THIS team and not the former GM. There are 13 players and a coaching staff that weren't here when Dubas left. It's a different team accomplishing more in the regular season and playoffs than any other team of this era. It feels different to me

 

[Dekes For Days]

You don't get it, any time you try to make an argument in favor of Dubas or Keefe all anyone has to say is that Berube and Treliving got more playoff wins in less than 2 years for Treliving

They can and probably will say that because it's all they have, but that's not an actual argument, so it doesn't actually get them anywhere. It really just displays a simplistic understanding of hockey and inability to apply context and identify causation. We're not repeating a level in a single player game here.

 

[LaPlante94]

They can and probably will say that because it's all they have, but that's not an actual argument, so it doesn't actually get them anywhere. It really just displays a simplistic understanding of hockey and inability to apply context and identify causation. We're not repeating a level in a single player game here.

You're the definition of when trying to be/sound smarter than everybody goes wrong so you try and gaslight everyone into thinking your way of thinking is still better when the actual results show otherwise. Since when has actual results become not an actual argument? You're way of thinking was given a chance when Dubas was hired and a lot of people even myself bought in and thought it'd finally make us that powerhouse team again that made deep runs consistently. Never happened though and all y'all did was make excuses. I still remember when an analytical guy was confused we chose Knies his draft year and didn't like the pick because he said he wasn't that good and didn't even have him ranked in his rankings. Took Tre and Berube 8 playoff games together to get more wins in 1 playoff run than the previous duo did the entire time they were here together. Yet your analytics have told you these results don't tell the whole story and anyone who calls you out on this you try and say they just don't understand the game when the ones you say this to are usually the ones who wanted more size and grit on the team to be able to play tougher around the net. Those damn idiots though right! They got what they wanted and now we're up 2-1 against Florida in the 2nd round in the 1st year with this new GM and Coach duo. It's too bad we didn't listen to the analytics more too and keep Liljegren or get a more offensive minded d man to replace Benoit so we could get more offence from the defence since we got so much in the past....

 

[conFABulator]

I actually mistook you for Cabanaboy, because you were both saying the same thing and using the same specific stats. My mistake. Though it seems like most of what I said still applies, because your response is following the same path... I'm not sure how you came to the idea that I "need to prove you wrong" when you're the one who first replied to me and tried to push your narratives. I don't really care what you choose to believe, but if you start a conversation, I'm going to respond.

Okay, but that's not actually based on anything and perception can be easily warped, so I don't know what that has to do with me.

There isn't any evidence that we are better built for the playoffs, but we are well positioned, so that's good.

It's not just point totals that show that. I posted quite a bit more. But also, your argument is faulty. It may be harder to get points off of Montreal, Ottawa, and Detroit, but it's simultaneously easier to get points off of Boston, Tampa, and Florida. That doesn't change the overall difficulty of obtaining points.

Yes. We won the Atlantic and are getting good outcomes in the playoffs so far. Those facts aren't the issue. People isolating them without context to push their false narratives about why is when it becomes an issue.

I literally looked at a bunch of different measures (including dozens of stats) so I could get the full unbiased picture. You're the one picking out our best stretches to flatter us, and trying to define our team by one specific stat that isn't just about us.

Those are expressed in on-ice performance, which is captured in the advanced stats.

I have, but those are playstyle stats, not quality or result stats, and they do not have any real correlation with winning. We're actually hitting less in the playoffs than we have in recent history despite having the puck less, and while we block more, we also allow more shot attempts to block in the first place, so the blocks are really just countering that, not getting us ahead.

Advanced stats don't say that "we should have won". They explain why we lost. But some are so consumed by blaming one individual for everything that they ignore why we actually lost and fabricate their own narratives.

Again, you're the one that replied to me and tried to push your perspective. If you're going to do that, you should be able to handle your perspective being challenged.

Lol not even close. I'm having a blast and have been cheering us on every step of the way. I'm just not going to make up false narratives about what's happening and why. The only corner I'm in is pro-truth, and there's nothing about this run that is at odds with my position. In fact, I'm the one who kept saying we'd eventually hit a run like this, so don't ruin a good thing, while a lot of this board wanted to blow it up out of impatience, and were undermining their own argument as recently as game 5 of the first round.

Right off the top you acknowledged that your "proving me wrong" was intended for CabanaBoy and not me. Then you ask me "why I feel you need to prove others wrong?". Well, I didn't know your comment wasn't directed at me, now did I?

As for the rest of your post, you don’t seem open to the idea that not everything that leads to winning in sports is measurable or explainable. I’m not anti-analytics and I was a supporter of Dubas. I liked what he was doing and wasn’t at all sure that Treliving — or later, Berube — were the right hires. But this team has changed. With 13 players in these playoffs who weren’t on last year’s roster, it’s not the same group. And while they haven’t reached the final goal, they’ve already accomplished more than any Leafs team in this era.

When I say “I feel” or “they seem,” that’s not a claim to objective truth — it’s my view based on watching, playing, coaching, and living around the game for 45 years, I have so built businesses and teams and I absolutely believe in intangibles, these are things that impact outcomes but cannot always be measured or forecasted -- things like leadership, commitment, poise, drive, the ability to deliver under pressure.

We’ve never won the Atlantic before. We’ve never won six playoff games in one year. We’ve never had a 2–1 series lead in Round 2. So sure, keep looking at the expected goals and heat maps — but at some point, the results are what they are. This team has achieved something the others didn’t. I’m not saying they’re the best team of the era — although maybe they are — but if we’re trying to define success, let’s not ignore the actual wins.

EDIT: This was an accidental double post with basically the same theme and points.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Since when has actual results become not an actual argument?

Actual results are an argument. But people aren't looking at the actual results of what they argued. People are taking one specific outcome (that we are only half of the equation for), caused by something unrelated to their argument, and then claiming "this is because of [insert thing I like]".

The narrative? We need more physicality and pushback!
The result? This is one of our least physical playoffs in recent history (despite also having the puck less), and suddenly nobody cares anymore. Fights? Zero. We watched our starting goalie get concussed and throw up on the bench, and Tkachuk try to take out the knees of one of our best players, and nobody did anything. Berube preached moving on and focusing on the series - a strategy that people used to go ballistic over.

The narrative? We need more size! Giants on defence will clear the net, not allow second opportunities, and prevent goals! Our new defensive coach and structure will make us hold leads!
The result? More rebound shots allowed from around the net, worse defensive results, and more goals against. Multiple blown multi-goal leads before we even hit 10 games.

The narrative? We can't win with 4 players making X! Get rid of them!
The result? Currently winning with those 4 players making the highest percentage of the cap that they ever have or will, and being largely carried by them. Heck, Berube is even still playing them in the same configuration y'all hated.

We're getting better outcomes for one very obvious reason. We're facing 0.866 goaltending overall, and 0.871 or worse in 7 out of 9 games. We've never had an issue winning in those circumstances. We were undefeated in the playoffs 2018-2023 when facing 0.871 goaltending or worse.

And who kept reminding people of the likelihood of eventually experiencing the other extreme of opposing goaltending, and the potential that existed if we did? Oh that's right... Me.

I still remember when an analytical guy was confused we chose Knies his draft year and didn't like the pick because he said he wasn't that good and didn't even have him ranked in his rankings.

Analytics loved Knies. In fact, they're what showed a lot of Knies' non-production impacts.

It's too bad we didn't listen to the analytics more too and keep Liljegren or get a more offensive minded d man to replace Benoit

Analytics didn't suggest any of that.

 

[Strangle]

You're the definition of when trying to be/sound smarter than everybody goes wrong so you try and gaslight everyone into thinking your way of thinking is still better when the actual results show otherwise. Since when has actual results become not an actual argument? You're way of thinking was given a chance when Dubas was hired and a lot of people even myself bought in and thought it'd finally make us that powerhouse team again that made deep runs consistently. Never happened though and all y'all did was make excuses. I still remember when an analytical guy was confused we chose Knies his draft year and didn't like the pick because he said he wasn't that good and didn't even have him ranked in his rankings. Took Tre and Berube 8 playoff games together to get more wins in 1 playoff run than the previous duo did the entire time they were here together. Yet your analytics have told you these results don't tell the whole story and anyone who calls you out on this you try and say they just don't understand the game when the ones you say this to are usually the ones who wanted more size and grit on the team to be able to play tougher around the net. Those damn idiots though right! They got what they wanted and now we're up 2-1 against Florida in the 2nd round in the 1st year with this new GM and Coach duo. It's too bad we didn't listen to the analytics more too and keep Liljegren or get a more offensive minded d man to replace Benoit so we could get more offence from the defence since we got so much in the past....

This is why I turn my nose up at a lot of analytics.

Their only use seems to be arguing about why losing isn’t bad.

Give me real stats any day over these voodoo magic “we lost but check out why that’s A GOOD THING!”

Ya get outta here with that garbage lol

 

[Dekes For Days]

This is why I turn my nose up at a lot of analytics.
Their only use seems to be arguing about why losing isn’t bad.
Give me real stats any day over these voodoo magic “we lost but check out why that’s A GOOD THING!”

Analytics has never been about losing being a good thing. It just helps you understand why you won or lost. Some people seem to dislike it because it gets in the way of their narratives.

 

[Mess]

Coach Berube has made all the difference in the World, keeping the team cool, calm and composed. The composure of the team under his guidance and how to deploy a winning strategy has been underappreciated on Leafs best playoff run in a Salary Cap World.

Sheldon Keefe got outcoached by absolutely everyone, and his" earning respect in the handshake line" among he most embarrassing things ever said.

Hiring Berube a real coach is behind much of Leafs improvement on the ice and in Cup Competitiveness, a feather in the cap of our competent GM Treliving.

 

[sunstersun]

Coach Berube has made all the difference in the World, keeping the team cool, calm and composed. The composure of the team under his guidance and how to deploy a winning strategy has been underappreciated on Leafs best playoff run in a Salary Cap World.

Sheldon Keefe got outcoached by absolutely everyone, and his" earning respect in the handshake line" among he most embarrassing things ever said.

Hiring Berube a real coach is behind much of Leafs improvement on the ice and in Cup Competitiveness, a feather in the cap of our competent GM Treliving.

I'm not in love with Berube's coaching style. I still think I'd rather play Paul Maruice possession style.

I don't think we have the guys for dump and chase.

The one guy shining like a rocket star has a cart blanch from the coach to play however he wants, which I'll give him credit for. Why did Keefe treat the first line with kid gloves while Nylander got that was completely confusing.