Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[BlueForever75]

For those that say the Leafs showing against Florida 2 playoffs ago was pathetic need to get checked out. We basically lost the 1st game 4-2 and every other game was a 1 goal difference with 2 coming in OT. Were the Panthers a superior team, YES. But to say we were pathetic is uneducated.

Since then, the Panthers have added and subtracted from their core. But so have the Leafs. I would say the additions of Domi, Patches, McMann, Laughton, Tanev, OEL, Carlo, Stolarz and Benoit have definitely strengthened them to be better then they were. Tre has definitely done well. And lets not forget Berube and the level of accountability he demands from his team over Keefe did. The team is different.

Time will tell, but I feel the two teams are not that far off from one another. Different styles. But one will argue the Leafs were better then TB this season. So the series should be closer then some may think.

 

[arso40]

For those that say the Leafs showing against Florida 2 playoffs ago was pathetic need to get checked out. We basically lost the 1st game 4-2 and every other game was a 1 goal difference with 2 coming in OT. Were the Panthers a superior team, YES. But to say we were pathetic is uneducated.

Since then, the Panthers have added and subtracted from their core. But so have the Leafs. I would say the additions of Domi, Patches, McMann, Laughton, Tanev, OEL, Carlo, Stolarz and Benoit have definitely strengthened them to be better then they were. Tre has definitely done well. And lets not forget Berube and the level of accountability he demands from his team over Keefe did. The team is different.

Time will tell, but I feel the two teams are not that far off from one another. Different styles. But one will argue the Leafs were better then TB this season. So the series should be closer then some may think.

Domi needs two way forwards to play with that’s how that line has to be figured out

 

[Dekes For Days]

The thing that really annoyed me about the previous regime and Jake Muzzin is they’d always gush about how he’s this and that and so great such a stabilizing force. Yeah that’s wonderful. Why not stock up on another Muzzin type Dman. Why not 3? Well Treliving more or less identified that and put 4 guys back there.

Lol. The previous regime brought in a number of great, stabilizing defensemen and put up the best defensive results the team has had in the cap era. You can't just go pick up 3 Muzzins at the corner store. While Treliving has brought in a couple solid top-4 defensemen, Treliving hasn't brought in anybody as good as Muzzin was.

 

[BlueForever75]

Domi needs two way forwards to play with that’s how that line has to be figured out

Can definitely see some changes for the Florida series on the forward lines. I propose the following:

Knies-Matthews-Marner
Patches-Tavares-Nylander
McMann-Laughton-Domi
Lorenz - Kampf - Jarnkrok

Holmberg, Robertson

The reasons I place these changes in are as follows:

1. Provides more size down the middle against a tougher team in Florida
2. Better team on draws which we will need to control the play more
3. Kampf adds to the PK where Florida is great
4. Takes Domi and places him with defensively sound players

Of course the Leafs would have to monitor how something like this works and make changes where they need to as series progresses. And taking out Holmberg pains me as he was solid against Ottawa. But this is where I would go.

 

[arso40]

Can definitely see some changes for the Florida series on the forward lines. I propose the following:

Knies-Matthews-Marner
Patches-Tavares-Nylander
McMann-Laughton-Domi
Lorenz - Kampf - Jarnkrok

Holmberg, Robertson

The reasons I place these changes in are as follows:

1. Provides more size down the middle against a tougher team in Florida
2. Better team on draws which we will need to control the play more
3. Kampf adds to the PK where Florida is great
4. Takes Domi and places him with defensively sound players

Of course the Leafs would have to monitor how something like this works and make changes where they need to as series progresses. And taking out Holmberg pains me as he was solid against Ottawa. But this is where I would go.

I just don’t think holmberg comes out but I agree with you on that line construction with Laughton

 

[BlueForever75]

Lol. The previous regime brought in a number of great, stabilizing defensemen and put up the best defensive results the team has had in the cap era. You can't just go pick up 3 Muzzins at the corner store. While Treliving has brought in a couple solid top-4 defensemen, Treliving hasn't brought in anybody as good as Muzzin was.

Sorry I would have to say that Tanev is much better then Muzzin ever was for the Leafs.

 

[BlueForever75]

I just don’t think holmberg comes out but I agree with you on that line construction with Laughton

It has to be Holmberg. Kampf needs to be in lineup. Jarnkrok and Lorenz have chemistry. They must stay in the lineup. Not to mention keeps consistency on PK where they have done well together.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Sorry I would have to say that Tanev is much better then Muzzin ever was for the Leafs.

Tanev has been really solid, but he doesn't have the offense to match a Muzzin. He's more on the Brodie level.

 

[Stephen]

Lol. The previous regime brought in a number of great, stabilizing defensemen and put up the best defensive results the team has had in the cap era. You can't just go pick up 3 Muzzins at the corner store. While Treliving has brought in a couple solid top-4 defensemen, Treliving hasn't brought in anybody as good as Muzzin was.

Treliving just went out and retooled the 4 out of the 6 defensive spots in one offseason. Dubas was here for 2018-2023.

Don’t even need to go talk about actual cup winners and the kind of defensive corps they were able to build between 2018 and 2023.

 

[Shooter2x]

Lol. The previous regime brought in a number of great, stabilizing defensemen and put up the best defensive results the team has had in the cap era. You can't just go pick up 3 Muzzins at the corner store. While Treliving has brought in a couple solid top-4 defensemen, Treliving hasn't brought in anybody as good as Muzzin was.

You can't go pickup Muzzins at a corner store. You nailed it yourself. This fact is where Dubas always failed. There was always a big empty hole in overall team cohesion when taking a snap shot of the team at every moment of it's stage. What do we do when faced with scarcity or decreasing cap space? Dubas filled it with filler players instead of building a well oiled machine.

Also, I find Tanev to be a bigger warrior than Muzzin and definitely less injury prone but yes I'd take a healthy Muzzin any day.

 

[BlueForever75]

Tanev has been really solid, but he doesn't have the offense to match a Muzzin. He's more on the Brodie level.

What offence did Muzzin provide exactly? His highest point total with the leafs was 27. And his highest +/- was +21. Tanev had 19 pts this season along with a +/- of +31, playing large minutes against the biggest stars of the league every game. Barely injured and tough as nails.

Dont get me wrong, loved Muzzin and what he brought to the Leafs. But Tanev is far better for what he provides to the Leafs today and would have provided back then for the Leafs instead of Muzzin.

 

[arso40]

It has to be Holmberg. Kampf needs to be in lineup. Jarnkrok and Lorenz have chemistry. They must stay in the lineup. Not to mention keeps consistency on PK where they have done well together.

Believe it or not holmberg has been one of the best forwards on our team I don’t see him
Coming out

 

[BlueForever75]

Believe it or not holmberg has been one of the best forwards on our team I don’t see him
Coming out

I am not disagreeing with you but we need to bring size and grit to the team with better defensive capabilities. Kampf is that forward. I was contemplating taking out Jarnkrok but the cohesion he has with Lorenz did wonders against Ottawa. I didn't want to break up the Laughton line with them but had to if we needed to put Domi with better defensive options against a dangerous Florida team.

Changing Laughton off the 4th line made sense, but Kampf offers more upside to the 4th line for this specific series. This could change as the series goes on. Maybe Holmberg supplants Patches or Jarnkrok. But for now I think this is the best way to go.

 

[arso40]

I am not disagreeing with you but we need to bring size and grit to the team with better defensive capabilities. Kampf is that forward. I was contemplating taking out Jarnkrok but the cohesion he has with Lorenz did wonders against Ottawa. I didn't want to break up the Laughton line with them but had to if we needed to put Domi with better defensive options against a dangerous Florida team.

Changing Laughton off the 4th line made sense, but Kampf offers more upside to the 4th line for this specific series. This could change as the series goes on. Maybe Holmberg supplants Patches or Jarnkrok. But for now I think this is the best way to go.

Patches/domi is the right player to take out but we know it won’t happen

 

[Dekes For Days]

Treliving just went out and retooled the 4 out of the 6 defensive spots in one offseason. Dubas was here for 2018-2023.

Except that's not true. He added one last year, two this past offseason, and one at the deadline. Both GMs did pretty aggressive retooling of the defense, and Dubas started from a worse place and did a better job.

But this also has nothing to do with what you were just talking about. He hasn't added anybody as good as Muzzin, let alone 3.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

I still Treliving's best move was not trading Cowan or Danford. Even with the cap going up, guys are due raises and re-signing (potentially).

Having two minimum wage guys who can make an impact over the next 1-3 seasons will be essential - a lot more than 1st rounders which are 5 years away, which the Leafs could very well be in full rebuild mode by then.

 

[Stephen]

Except that's not true. He added one last year, two this past offseason, and one at the deadline. Both GMs did pretty aggressive retooling of the defense, and Dubas started from a worse place and did a better job.

But this also has nothing to do with what you were just talking about. He hasn't added anybody as good as Muzzin, let alone 3.

Tanev is a straight up better defender than Jake Muzzin.

I don’t know why you insist on clinging to the Dubas era like they were the good old days.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Tanev is a straight up better defender than Jake Muzzin.

Except he's not. And Tanev isn't 3 players either.

I don’t know why you insist on clinging to the Dubas era like they were the good old days.

You're the one that brought up Dubas. I don't know why you insist on making stuff up about the Dubas era to pretend everything was horrible.

 

[IPS]

Not only did we get get Tanev who's >= Muzzin but we actually filled the spot beside Rielly with BY FAR the best D we've ever had in that slot in Carlo.

And if that wasn't enough - OEL and Benoit are magnitudes better than anything we've had as a bottom pairing the last 5-6 years.

There truly is no debate.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You can't go pickup Muzzins at a corner store. You nailed it yourself. This fact is where Dubas always failed. There was always a big empty hole in overall team cohesion when taking a snap shot of the team at every moment of it's stage. What do we do when faced with scarcity or decreasing cap space? Dubas filled it with filler players instead of building a well oiled machine.

Not sure what you're even trying to say. He didn't fail to get a Muzzin. He literally got him, and a lot of other players that were far from "filler". There were no cohesion or oil issues.

Also, I find Tanev to be a bigger warrior than Muzzin

That's recency bias talking.

What offence did Muzzin provide exactly?

Tanev is a 20 point pace defender. Muzzin is a 35 point pace defender.

playing large minutes against the biggest stars of the league every game.

They both did that. Muzzin actually played more minutes, and did it with Holl, not McCabe. While providing better offense and PKing. We can appreciate Tanev and what he's done in year 1 without diminishing what past players brought.

 

[Superstar]

The thing that really annoyed me about the previous regime and Jake Muzzin is they’d always gush about how he’s this and that and so great such a stabilizing force. Yeah that’s wonderful. Why not stock up on another Muzzin type Dman. Why not 3? Well Treliving more or less identified that and put 4 guys back there.

Dubas couldn't find enough ex-Soo Greyhound dman to bring over other than Muzzin...guy was thinking outside the box all the time...

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Lol. The previous regime brought in a number of great, stabilizing defensemen and put up the best defensive results the team has had in the cap era. You can't just go pick up 3 Muzzins at the corner store. While Treliving has brought in a couple solid top-4 defensemen, Treliving hasn't brought in anybody as good as Muzzin was.

Individually you are probably right.

But the defense was never this deep under previous management.

You can't tell me Bush was ever as good as Benoit.

You can't tell me that even at his best Brodie was ever as good as Tanev is now and Brodie was great his first 3 1/2 years but he's not Tanev.

Gio, I loved me some Gio, we all did but he is not Carlo.

And there was never the 3rd pair guy the caliber of OEL, or a 3rd pair in general the caliber of OEL and Benoit.

Full credit for the McCabe trade, I'd have that as Dubas's greatest trade personally and his 2nd best move overall behind Tavares.

But no, at no point under previous management has the defense been this deep.

There is never a point where I go "I hope the defense doesn't f*** this up."

 

[BlueForever75]

Not sure what you're even trying to say. He didn't fail to get a Muzzin. He literally got him, and a lot of other players that were far from "filler". There were no cohesion or oil issues.

That's recency bias talking.

Tanev is a 20 point pace defender. Muzzin is a 35 point pace defender.

They both did that. Muzzin actually played more minutes, and did it with Holl, not McCabe. While providing better offense and PKing. We can appreciate Tanev and what he's done in year 1 without diminishing what past players brought.

I still think Tanev is better. Again I am not saying Muzzin wasnt good I am saying for what I remember seeing in Muzzin to what Tanev has shown if there were a warrior its Tanev. He isnt as big as Muzzin but it more mobile, tough as nails, and his defense is second to none. The guy was spoken about being a 4 Nations team member. He does possess skill, just not as offensive as Muzzin. But definitely better defensively

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Patches/domi is the right player to take out but we know it won’t happen

You don't take out Domi after how clutch he was in round 1

 

[arso40]

You don't take out Domi after how clutch he was in round 1

I agree just succs that it’s literally the only thing Hes done