Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[notbias]

don't forget Monahan , he's almost a ppg and we could have had him for 2m , we could do this endlessly but unless you think anyone could hit on everyone of these reclamation types it's pointless

everyone thought OEL was done , there was hope Berg would improve going to a better team just like how the Nucks thought OEL would be better with them than the yotes

Speaking of Monahan... you know how he ended up in Montreal? Our GM made an amazing deal to rid himself of a mistake.

 

[GoonieFace]

True enough.

But one gambled $2.25mm and another gambled $4.15mm on wishes.

Can bury almost half of EOL in the minors, not so much Klingberg.

Put OEL on this team with this D and see how he does

 

[hotpaws]

Speaking of Monahan... you know how he ended up in Montreal? Our GM made an amazing deal to rid himself of a mistake.

View attachment 766221

wow cool story and that's almost as bad as when our former GM backed himself in a corner then allowed his weak ass to be pushed into trading a 1st to dump Marleau which turned into Jarvis or also almost as bad as trading a 1st and a 2nd for a 3rd pairing D and a 4th line forward just this past offseason

we have plenty of fond memories of our former GM we can relive for years !

but please explain to me again why you have so much love for the Dube ?

 

[notbias]

wow cool story and that's almost as bad as when our former GM backed himself in a corner then allowed his weak ass to be pushed into trading a 1st to dump Marleau which turned into Jarvis or also almost as bad as trading a 1st and a 2nd for a 3rd pairing D and a 4th line forward just this past offseason

we have plenty of fond memories of our former GM we can relieve for years !

but please explain to me again why you have so much love for the Dube ?

I agree, Lou made a terrible signing and handcuffed the new GM.

Don't have love for any GM

Why not address our current GM's past? Dubas was never brought up until your obsession kicked in.

 

[hotpaws]

I agree, Lou made a terrible signing and handcuffed the new GM.

Don't have love for any GM

that's one way to look at it , lol

i guess you forgot all the team friendly deals Lou left the Dube , i think i;ll remind you and these deals more than makes up for giving Marleau one yr to many and 1/1.5m a season too much to Z

Kadri
Andy
Rielly
Hyman
Brown

your posting history betrays your last comment , lol

 

[notbias]

that's one way to look at it , lol

i guess you forgot all the team friendly deals Lou left the Dube , i think i;ll remind you and these deals more than makes up for giving Marleau one yr to many and 1/1.5m a season too much

Kadri
Andy
Rielly
Hyman
Brown

your posting history betrays your last comment , lolwh

Zaitsev... Marleau... that more than covers any savings you think we had...

I'm trying to discuss the current GM though, you have a weird obsession with bringing up Dubas... he's gone... you keep saying how trash the Pens are (they have a similar pt%) and how bad the Jarry signing was (.907 > Samsanov)... it is weird

 

[ToneDog]

wow cool story and that's almost as bad as when our former GM backed himself in a corner then allowed his weak ass to be pushed into trading a 1st to dump Marleau which turned into Jarvis or also almost as bad as trading a 1st and a 2nd for a 3rd pairing D and a 4th line forward just this past offseason

we have plenty of fond memories of our former GM we can relive for years !

but please explain to me again why you have so much love for the Dube ?

How could you forget a first for a dozen games from this broken down war horse? Dubes probably would have added a second if Nick had hair as nice as Willie's.

 

[Bomber0104]

The difference between our league high and league average is shifting most of Domi/Bertuzzi’s money to D/G, it’s not a huge gap we’re locked into. In fact it could have been completely resolved this off season without much, if any, drop off in forward production.

Ok but you're then replacing them with league minimum players. The end result being a true studs and duds forward group where you're either making a core-four salary or you're making David Kampf money ($2.4M) to league minimum. That too is just as unprecedented as the current setup.

I'm sure the long-term plan is to shift money to D/G but it wasn't going to be done in the span of one off-season where the new GM had only been here for what, a month?

There was zero boat-rocking and probably for good reason, I wouldn't expect him to have an appraisal of the team after just a few weeks of being here.

The problem isn’t the spend, it’s who the spend is being used on. Kling + Brodie instead of Lindholm + Carlo is roughly even dollars but a world of difference in quality.

Were you expecting Treliving to come in and trade a 1st, two 2nds, and a former first round pick defenceman for our own Hampus Lindholm? Because that's what it took to get him on Boston...

And Carlo was drafted and developed, wasn't a free agent signing or a trade so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make mentioning him.

I think the one-year deals are fine given the circumstances of how the GM change happened this off-season.

The premier free-agent defenceman of the off-season was Ryan Graves who arguably could have helped us, aside from him there was Holl, Orlov and Clifton available..,

 

[hotpaws]

Zaitsev... Marleau... that more than covers any savings you think we had...

I'm trying to discuss the current GM though, you have a weird obsession with bringing up Dubas... he's gone... you keep saying how trash the Pens are (they have a similar pt%) and how bad the Jarry signing was (.907 > Samsanov)... it is weird

what's weird is you go from praising every move a failed GM made for 5yrs to bashing our current GM from the get go then trying to spin it isn't out of love for our former one

our D core is in the state it's in due to our previous GM's incompetence unless of course your believe any GM could magically rebuild an entire team over the course of one off season

how different would our D core and cap look like had Dubie taken Guhle instead of Amirov or not traded down to take the 2 small Finns and selected Kleven , this would have given us a very good top 4 D with size and a big rugged developing D on our 3rd pair , both of which are on there elc's

now before you go all holy roller on me i'll say it still breaks my heart every time i think of that young man passing away and i'm not saying he was a bad pick at that spot or wouldn't have turned into a quality player but when your needs line up with equally rated prospect(s) you don't constantly pass on them because you're hell bent on building the softest team in the league

How could you forget a first for a dozen games from this broken down war horse? Dubes probably would have added a second if Nick had hair as nice as Willie's.

View attachment 766237

how could i have forgotten that stellar trade and we can throw in the the great Kadri trade , lol

i think i need a drink

 

[Bomber0104]

I get your point about the injuries to the defense and that isn't going to change in the near future. The forwards don't hold any opposing players up. The other teams come crashing in on our defense and smash them unabated. Our cherry picking forwards are and always have been the problem. Not even the 2 Pat's (Burns, Quinn) can fix this group.

Well it will change, we're getting McCabe so that's supposedly or best defensive defenceman, or at least should be given what it cost Dubas to acquire him last deadline.

You've got guys playing way higher than they should be right now, particularly Klingberg and Gio.

The third pairing (Lagesson and Benoit) has actually looked okay from what I've seen.

 

[Bomber0104]

Obviously the injuries hurt the D and everyone knows about the cap allocation to the big 4.

It's not really relevant to the conversation though. Our defense was set up this year to be cheap but that doesn’t mean it had to be bad. Our #3 (McCabe), #4 (Lily), and #5/6 (Gio) are all on very cheap deals and quality players in their roles.

We had an opportunity to really shore up the depth but instead wasted 4.15 on a guy who can't be trusted to play ES minutes even when your into your 8th and 9th dmen on the depth chart being forced into action.

Lagesson got 5 minutes more ice than Klingberg last game - in a game we were trailing, and he's the definition a pro depth guy.

How can the injuries not be relevant to the conversation when in the very next sentence you contradict that by highlighting how we are going to be relying on the two injured players?

 

[keonsbitterness]

Tre didn't or wasn't able to make a splash on day one of free agency, so maybe it shouldn't be a big surprise that these signings have struggled.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Tre didn't or wasn't able to make a splash on day one of free agency, so maybe it shouldn't be a big surprise that these signings have struggled.

They are all reclamation projects where they were hoping players would rebound. Except Reaves, they were using 20 year old thinking on that one and it was destined to be a horrible signing the moment the ink was dry.

It is also coaching though. The only thing Klingberg brings to the team is a pointshot and the Leafs don't even setup to use it on the PP so... they would have been better off with a steady stay at homer which this D core desperately needs to play with Rielly and Liljgren since Brodie seems to have lost a step and Gio has lost two or three.

 

[thusk]

ZAR plays 0 event hockey, which makes him a good 4th liner... that is not an intangible, that is a measurable thing.

Simmonds could still play on the ice to go along with his "intangibles"... he was once a very good player and has skill.

Your last sentence is comical, this board rips half the players for not trying, not caring, being a bad captain, or whatever stuff they make up... intangibles are just a way for people to justify a bad player.

I am fine with tough guys on the team, they just need to be able to play. If they are not effective on the ice but a good locker room guy, sign him as the team DJ/cheerleader, whatever he needs the title to be.

We have put players who we thought were good influences on the players within the organization when they are no longer effective... I am hoping that will be the new norm going forward, not putting them on the ice to negatively impact the game.

No intangible is what a lot of team looking, it was making your team better than the name on the sheet.. Bill Guerin is a great exemple of a gm giving high value for intangible...

aNd we will come back 2 or 3 years ago when he traded kahkonen to sj to trade for fleury couple of days later... thats making no sense at all. They traded a 24 y/o goalie everyone saw like the future #1 for a 37 y/o goalie who didn't looked better. Why? Intangible... every player fleury playing with became better... Gustavsson, Lehner, Murray just couple of exemple. Intangible its everything you cant count but having an impact on your team. fleury made wild a better team not because he was a better goalie at this moment of his carreer but because he made everyone around him better.


thats whats team was looking for and not for game 13 of regular especially for a contender. Its a part pretty hard to evaluate

 

[notbias]

No intangible is what a lot of team looking, it was making your team better than the name on the sheet.. Bill Guerin is a great exemple of a gm giving high value for intangible...

aNd we will come back 2 or 3 years ago when he traded kahkonen to sj to trade for fleury couple of days later... thats making no sense at all. They traded a 24 y/o goalie everyone saw like the future #1 for a 37 y/o goalie who didn't looked better. Why? Intangible... every player fleury playing with became better... Gustavsson, Lehner, Murray just couple of exemple. Intangible its everything you cant count but having an impact on your team. fleury made wild a better team not because he was a better goalie at this moment of his carreer but because he made everyone around him better.


thats whats team was looking for and not for game 13 of regular especially for a contender. Its a part pretty hard to evaluate

Since 2017 (when our rookies came in the league) Minnesota has a worse playoff record than us... not sure they are the gold standard.

You're listing a bunch of failed pickups as proof that intangibles are good...

 

[VanW27]

How can the injuries not be relevant to the conversation when in the very next sentence you contradict that by highlighting how we are going to be relying on the two injured players?

Sorry, poorly worded. The cap allocation is not relevant. We had cheap defense because we're fortunate to have quality dmen signed for cheap. Not because we didn't have enough money to allocate to the defense.

Had we used the 4.15 on a defenseman (or even 2) that can actually play defense at an NHL level we would be much more able to deal with current injury situation on the back end.

 

[IPS]

His team has to get there first.

Lol they're gonna get there, settle down.

 

[Menzinger]

High roster turnover year after year is not the key to building a successful TEAM. Roster consistency and players learning and playing together grow together as a team.

Being in CAP HELL and the contract status of the core 4 drives turnover.

This season and next season (which will be even worse) will be transition period for our new GM to get out from under this Cap Hell situation and hopefully towards longer-term planning.,

You simply can't toss a bunch of random players together and expect a cohesive tight team unit and consistent play and winning results.

What alliance or allegiance do Bertuzzi, Domi and Klingberg have to Toronto other than working for their next contracts and what do current players have to these rental players that are lilkely here only for this season and than squezzed out looking for cheaper replacements the following year with the pending raises of Nylander and Marner and Matthews contracts kicking in?.

I don't think signing Domi, Klingberg or Bertuzzi to longer term deals would have them playing any better.

Their contracts are fairly in line with what they would have gotten on another team as a top 9F/4D.

They e just all played like rubbish since being here. That's not a capspace problem imo

 

[Bomber0104]

Sorry, poorly worded. The cap allocation is not relevant. We had cheap defense because we're fortunate to have quality dmen signed for cheap. Not because we didn't have enough money to allocate to the defense.

Had we used the 4.15 on a defenseman (or even 2) that can actually play defense at an NHL level we would be much more able to deal with current injury situation on the back end.

With Sandin getting traded away last year, I'm sure the thinking was they didn't want to go into the year with Rielly as the only credible PP option from the blue line....there were points last season where the entire fanbase was calling him trash, wanted him off the PP, etc., so that's both for performance reasons but also injury risk.

But yes, two defencemen that accomplish two different roles (PP & PK/ES defensive duties) could have been pursued with at least Klingberg's cap-hit.

That's a completely fair and legitimate criticism.

 

[thusk]

Since 2017 (when our rookies came in the league) Minnesota has a worse playoff record than us... not sure they are the gold standard.

You're listing a bunch of failed pickups as proof that intangibles are good...

And Guerin didn't started with an all-stars team... he started with a prospect in kaprisov... and the 2 worst NHL contract with suter and parise... just the fact this team despite everything against them are able to be one of best team in the west year after year is amaizing.

The difference between a crosby and mcdavid, its not skill... its intangible... crosby doing a lot of little thing than mcdavid not...mcdavid look like more interest by his stats than winning and crosby had more interest about winning than his stats. So he changed his way to play to be a more complete player on the whatever if thats affecting his scoring or not. All the guys behing hin follow sid and played sid way, thats why they had been 1 of best team and why they outplayed pratically everytime washington in playoff who played the ovy way( same way as mcdavid). Mcdavid play one dimentionnal game and every player playing mcdavid way... they playing only 1 side and thats why they are so bad this season and never had real playoff succes.

You can have thousand exemple of intangible, not really hard

 

[Drytoast]

Considering he is a winger I guess that isnt too bad then?

f*** ya got me I meant Klingberg

 

[Gary Nylund]

The difference between a crosby and mcdavid, its not skill... its intangible... crosby doing a lot of little thing than mcdavid not...mcdavid look like more interest by his stats than winning and crosby had more interest about winning than his stats. So he changed his way to play to be a more complete player on the whatever if thats affecting his scoring or not. All the guys behing hin follow sid and played sid way, thats why they had been 1 of best team and why they outplayed pratically everytime washington in playoff who played the ovy way( same way as mcdavid). Mcdavid play one dimentionnal game and every player playing mcdavid way... they playing only 1 side and thats why they are so bad this season and never had real playoff succes.

You can have thousand exemple of intangible, not really hard

Nonsense. These are two players with completely different playing styles, intangibles have nothing to do with it.

 

[thusk]

Nonsense. These are two players with completely different playing styles, intangibles have nothing to do with it.

When they start in NHL, they was not so different... maybe because he had a great mentor behind him with Lemieux in Pittsburgh... since the 1st game sid hit the NHL, crosby raise his defensive game year after year... mcdavid 9 years later, im not sure if i can say he had a signifiant upgrade in his defensive game... the 1st one was working hard in his biggest weakness because he want to be the best player possible to win cup and the second didn't. that part can be considerable like intangible.

See letang get a dangerous hit and saw crosby running into a fight to protect his guy with everybody seeing this, how do you think rest of the team feeling when your seeing your leader reacting that way? The rest of the team have no choice to follow you ... thats intangible ! you will never see mcdavid doing this, you will never see matthews doing this...

What was the diffenrece between the tampa bay lightningt who was swept by columbus and the team who won the cup a year later... they was not a better team and probably worst on paper... the answer is Intangible. They gave away jt miller who was a better player than probably everything they bring in this team. But they signed maroon, traded for goodrow and coleman and those player help to create a kind of brotherhood with everybody ready to sacrifice himself for his teammate... thats changed EVERYTHING for Tampa, that changed their mentality. If Intangible doesn't exist, tampa would not won the cup in 2020 but in 2019

Intangible are everything that can impact the game and you cant calculate

 

[IPS]

Bringing in Zadorov would be a dandy start to rectifying this D.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I didn't think the goaltending would be ECHL caliber when I wrote this but here we are.