Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[Maple Leaf]

I even look at treliving Calgary moves, the tkachuk trade, kadri signing, markstrom signing, these were really good moves. Huberdeau falling off a cliff wasn’t treliving’s fault, that’s a coach and/or player fault. Then he walks into a leaf team where dubas left him no picks, no cap flexibility, and this past summer was his first chance with a little wiggle room and so far hit home runs with tanev, OEL and stolarz. They are not superstars, but they are good nhl players who hit above their caphit, which is what Toronto needs. I trust treliving now.

Yep Calgary is a powerhouse after Tre was done with them

 

[Maple Leaf]

The problem is Kyle did way more bad than good and really derailed us from what should have been a fairly plain sailing rebuild.

The Kadri trade
The Marchment trade
Exposing McCann for Holl (use your f***ing head Kyle)
The Marleau trade
Signing Mrazek
The cost to quickly remove Mrazek
The Johnsson signing
The Foligno trade
The signing of half a dozen Euro UFAs, to then give them away a couple of months later
Hiring his buddy to be the coach without interviewing a single other candidate
Dealing with RFAs

Like i can't honestly can't tell if he was trying?

Dubas was so bad I think he is an Ottawa Senators fan trying to screw the leafs

 

[notDatsyuk]

Dubas was so bad I think he is an Ottawa Senators fan trying to screw the leafs

When JFJ was here I used to say he was like his father - he would do anything he could to keep the Leafs from winning.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I've liked how Treliving has slowly changed the makeup of the team. The Reaves signing last year was mostly a dud, but he has brought some jam to this team that has been lacking for many many years.

This offseason he did quite well. Tanev is a nice, steady addition on the back end. OEL has been more stable thus far than I expected, and it's nice to have added another puck mover on the back besides Rielly. Lorentz is playing like a kid living out his childhood dream playing for the Leafs -- I like the element he has brought to the 4th line. Stolarz thus far, short sample size, has far exceeded what I was expecting. And Pacioretty is the typical veteran play for a low price -- would rather see the spot be taken up by a young prospect, but hopefully he sticks and hits like Spezza did for a couple years.

I keep saying the true test to see what Treliving is made of will be this upcoming offseason. How he handles the Marner negotiation, and what he does with Tavares, whether re-signing him or reallocating that money into other areas.

Starting to really like how the team is shaping up. Haven't been this confident in the goaltending and defence for quite a long time. Lots of work still to be had with holes here and there, but when you have the pieces of Matthews, Nylander and Marner already in place, the team will always stay well above water.

 

[sxvnert]

The problem is Kyle did way more bad than good and really derailed us from what should have been a fairly plain sailing rebuild.

The Kadri trade
The Marchment trade
Exposing McCann for Holl (use your f***ing head Kyle)
The Marleau trade
Signing Mrazek
The cost to quickly remove Mrazek
The Johnsson signing
The Foligno trade
The signing of half a dozen Euro UFAs, to then give them away a couple of months later
Hiring his buddy to be the coach without interviewing a single other candidate
Dealing with RFAs

Like i can't honestly can't tell if he was trying?

- Constantly wasting draft picks on 5'9/10 players (especially defenceman) who have no hope of making the nhl.

 

[sunstersun]

I'm still worried about Tanev, and would have really liked to trade Rielly. But I love the OEL signing, goalies and Domi contract.

So far he's above Dubas quite easily.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Brad wanted to build a team that could play hard, heavy hockey and he’s done just that. Leafs are on average the heaviest team in the league.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5847981/2024/10/17/nhl-2024-25-season-teams-analysis/?

 

[rumman]

Feels like Benoit will be the dman on the outside especially if McCabe n oel get split up

Highly doubt it, Benny’s a lock on the bottom pairing……..

 

[Evilhomer]

Brad wanted to build a team that could play hard, heavy hockey and he’s done just that. Leafs are on average the heaviest team in the league.

View attachment 917765

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5847981/2024/10/17/nhl-2024-25-season-teams-analysis/?

How relevant is a stat like that when the reigning Cup champion is near the bottom of the list? Conversely, other than Vegas, the teams at the top of the list have consistently won nothing.

 

[notbias]

Dubists in the fetal position.

Another word for "Dubists" is Leafs fans, no one is actually a fan of a GM... This post is weird and detached from reality, this is thinking that fans of a team are upset with a good start to the season... idiotic really.

I hope that 80% of the signings work out like they currently are, but I'll be shocked if they maintain their play through the whole season.

Stolarz likely won't have a .940 this season.

Lorentz likely won't be putting up many two-point games but will be hard on the forecheck, defensively responsible, and contribute randomly.

OEL has been good, I can see that continuing, and Tanev has been good, I can see that continuing, the issue with both those contracts were they are gambles.

Liljegren looks like a bad contract.

Pacioretty looks like a waste (but won't be here for 10 games, so who cares).

Woll currently looks like a bad contract, but I still have faith he can rebound, even if the contract is based on potential and not play.

Also, if this team works, it proves that Dubas was right for keeping the core together... so I'm not sure why people would think this is somehow bad for Dubas.

It proves that most of this board was wrong for wanting some of the core gone.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Brad wanted to build a team that could play hard, heavy hockey and he’s done just that. Leafs are on average the heaviest team in the league.

View attachment 917765

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5847981/2024/10/17/nhl-2024-25-season-teams-analysis/?

Leafs the heaviest team in the league? I wasn't expecting that, had you asked me I would have probably said Boston or the Rangers and to be fair they are 2 and 3.

But you can really see it in the games they work much MUCH harder then they EVER did under Keefe

 

[Evilhomer]

Another word for "Dubists" is Leafs fans, no one is actually a fan of a GM... This post is weird and detached from reality, this is thinking that fans of a team are upset with a good start to the season... idiotic really.

I hope that 80% of the signings work out like they currently are, but I'll be shocked if they maintain their play through the whole season.

Stolarz likely won't have a .940 this season.

Lorentz likely won't be putting up many two-point games but will be hard on the forecheck, defensively responsible, and contribute randomly.

OEL has been good, I can see that continuing, and Tanev has been good, I can see that continuing, the issue with both those contracts were they are gambles.

Liljegren looks like a bad contract.

Pacioretty looks like a waste (but won't be here for 10 games, so who cares).

Woll currently looks like a bad contract, but I still have faith he can rebound, even if the contract is based on potential and not play.

Also, if this team works, it proves that Dubas was right for keeping the core together... so I'm not sure why people would think this is somehow bad for Dubas.

It proves that most of this board was wrong for wanting some of the core gone.

I think people are mostly missing the point. The off-season player acquisitions are fine, but let's not pretend they added prime Pieterangelo. The difference is coaching. That has ALWAYS been the issue with this team. It has now finally been fixed, and we are seeing the early results of that change. Players' individual stats will rise and fall throughout the season, but the team's play, and particularly its preparation for games, will be far more consistent. That is what is going to lead to a division and likely conference-winning team. The core players will be fine. They will all get their points, and I expect that they will all perform better in high-tension games because they will be playing within a much more structured system.

The issue was always Keefe.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Another word for "Dubists" is Leafs fans, no one is actually a fan of a GM... This post is weird and detached from reality, this is thinking that fans of a team are upset with a good start to the season... idiotic really.

I hope that 80% of the signings work out like they currently are, but I'll be shocked if they maintain their play through the whole season.

Stolarz likely won't have a .940 this season.

Lorentz likely won't be putting up many two-point games but will be hard on the forecheck, defensively responsible, and contribute randomly.

OEL has been good, I can see that continuing, and Tanev has been good, I can see that continuing, the issue with both those contracts were they are gambles.

Liljegren looks like a bad contract.

Pacioretty looks like a waste (but won't be here for 10 games, so who cares).

Woll currently looks like a bad contract, but I still have faith he can rebound, even if the contract is based on potential and not play.

Also, if this team works, it proves that Dubas was right for keeping the core together... so I'm not sure why people would think this is somehow bad for Dubas.

It proves that most of this board was wrong for wanting some of the core gone.

I mean, it’d show that Dubas was incapable of building a supporting cast around the core good enough to win. And Shanahan would get a lot of credit too since he’s also been bullish about keeping them together.

How relevant is a stat like that when the reigning Cup champion is near the bottom of the list? Conversely, other than Vegas, the teams at the top of the list have consistently won nothing.

Man who knows, I just thought it was an interesting stat that demonstrated how Treliving was building a team to match his philosophy.

The issue was always Keefe.

This x1000.

 

[notbias]

I mean, it’d show that Dubas was incapable of building a supporting cast around the core good enough to win. And Shanahan would get a lot of credit too since he’s also been bullish about keeping them together.

The supporting cast is largely the same...

I think people are mostly missing the point. The off-season player acquisitions are fine, but let's not pretend they added prime Pieterangelo. The difference is coaching. That has ALWAYS been the issue with this team. It has now finally been fixed, and we are seeing the early results of that change. Players' individual stats will rise and fall throughout the season, but the team's play, and particularly its preparation for games, will be far more consistent. That is what is going to lead to a division and likely conference-winning team. The core players will be fine. They will all get their points, and I expect that they will all perform better in high-tension games because they will be playing within a much more structured system.

The issue was always Keefe.

4 games in against bad teams, I wouldn't call it fixed yet, but it is encouraging.

It isn't even like they were clearly the better team in every game either.

People get way too worked up over such a small sample size and think this is an indication of how the season will go.

 

[rumman]

The lilegren & patch signings were the only mistakes.

OEL, Lorentz, Tanev, Stolarz, and Hakanpää (when he returns) were solid.

It’s early days, but so far I’d agree……

 

[rumman]

Great post! It's so easy to shit all over Dubas like so many seem to be gleefully doing but I've always said he did more good than bad while he was here.

We're looking good so far but we weren't great last season, this season's only 4 games old, we still have the same core and in the end, they're the ones that are going to have to show they can play, not choke in game 7's and if they finally are able to do that, not sure it's on Dubas that they pissed away the last 8 years by folding when the chips are all in. We had teams good enough to win before but Dubas can't go out on the ice and do it for them. In any case, I'd wait until we have some playoff success before chirping about how great the team is and how great Tre is the way some people are doing. We've had regular season success many, many times so what's the big deal about 4 good games against mostly poor to mediocre opponents?

That said, Tre's season so far is looking good far, much better than the last off-season for sure. I say enjoy the ride but remember that the real season doesn't even start for another 6 months.

I can’t disagree with this statement enough, Dubas destroyed the cap, hired the wrong coach, and systematically ruined all the discipline and team identity Lou had instilled. Dubas will easily end up being the worst GM the Leafs have had since Gird Stellick. Book it…….

When JFJ was here I used to say he was like his father - he would do anything he could to keep the Leafs from winning.

Which wasn’t much since Richard Peddie wouldn’t let him do squat…….

I'm still worried about Tanev, and would have really liked to trade Rielly. But I love the OEL signing, goalies and Domi contract.

So far he's above Dubas quite easily.

Not a hard bar to beat, that’s for damn sure……

 

[DarkKnight]

The culture has clearly changed.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

The supporting cast is largely the same...

The hell it is. Compare to Dubas' last season of 2022-23 and you'll see more than a third of the roster are purely Treliving additions. Include the promotions for guys who were in the system at the time and over half of the roster is different.


End 2022-23 Leafs:

Knies*/Jarnkrok-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Bunting-O’Reilly-Acciari
Lafferty-Kampf-ZAR

Rielly-Schenn
Brodie-Holl
McCabe-Liljegren
Giordano-Gustafsson

Woll/Samsonov


Early 2024-25 Leafs:

Knies-Matthews-Marner
McMann-Domi-Nylander
Holmberg/Pacioretty-Tavares-Robertson
Lorentz-Kampf-Reaves
Jarnkrok*

Rielly-Tanev
OEL-McCabe
Benoit-Timmins/Liljegren
Hakanpaa*

Stolarz/Woll

 

[DarkKnight]

The hell it is. Compare to Dubas' last season of 2022-23 and you'll see more than a third of the roster are purely Treliving additions. Include the promotions for guys who were in the system at the time and over half of the roster is different.


End 2022-23 Leafs:

Knies*/Jarnkrok-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Bunting-O’Reilly-Acciari
Lafferty-Kampf-ZAR

Rielly-Schenn
Brodie-Holl
McCabe-Liljegren
Giordano-Gustafsson

Woll/Samsonov


Early 2024-25 Leafs:

Knies-Matthews-Marner
McMann-Domi-Nylander
Holmberg/Pacioretty-Tavares-Robertson
Lorentz-Kampf-Reaves
Jarnkrok*

Rielly-Tanev
OEL-McCabe
Benoit-Timmins/Liljegren
Hakanpaa*

Stolarz/Woll

And an upgrade behind the bench. Dubas inherited our top three forwards and our top D man, all he ever did was "supporting cast" apart from the JT over payment. To me it's culture, each had their own, I prefer this one so far. Every one who covers the team has said it's different, whether some Dubie stragglers agree is beyond irrelevant.

 

[notbias]

The hell it is. Compare to Dubas' last season of 2022-23 and you'll see more than a third of the roster are purely Treliving additions. Include the promotions for guys who were in the system at the time and over half of the roster is different.


End 2022-23 Leafs:

Knies*/Jarnkrok-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Bunting-O’Reilly-Acciari
Lafferty-Kampf-ZAR

Rielly-Schenn
Brodie-Holl
McCabe-Liljegren
Giordano-Gustafsson

Woll/Samsonov


Early 2024-25 Leafs:

Knies-Matthews-Marner
McMann-Domi-Nylander
Holmberg/Pacioretty-Tavares-Robertson
Lorentz-Kampf-Reaves
Jarnkrok*

Rielly-Tanev
OEL-McCabe
Benoit-Timmins/Liljegren
Hakanpaa*

Stolarz/Woll

Ya, not a huge turnover.

2/3 forwards come playoff time and 3 D likely...

Stolarz is the wildcard.

It is largely the same team just with the free agents available that year are different.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I'm still worried about Tanev, and would have really liked to trade Rielly. But I love the OEL signing, goalies and Domi contract.

So far he's above Dubas quite easily.

So we wouldn't have our top pair.

That sounds like a bad plan

 

[conFABulator]

The problem is Kyle did way more bad than good and really derailed us from what should have been a fairly plain sailing rebuild.

The Kadri trade
The Marchment trade
Exposing McCann for Holl (use your f***ing head Kyle)
The Marleau trade
Signing Mrazek
The cost to quickly remove Mrazek
The Johnsson signing
The Foligno trade
The signing of half a dozen Euro UFAs, to then give them away a couple of months later
Hiring his buddy to be the coach without interviewing a single other candidate
Dealing with RFAs

Like i can't honestly can't tell if he was trying?

Hmmm, "way more bad than good" eh? You think it should have been a "fairly plain sailing rebuilld"? What does that look like? What bar are we holding him to? The one set by his peers and other organizations or the perfection level, or even worse the one that is set by Dubas haters? I am not a hater, I am also not a "Dubist".

It's amazing that you "can't even tell if he was trying" yet his organization was one of the most successful in the league during his tenure. Wait, are you going to say success is only measured by cups? With the exception of Vegas, is there a recent cup winner that got there very quickly? Washington took years with their rebuild, so did Tampa and Carolina, Florida absolutely did. What is your bar for success and what teams in the Dubas era have achieved that and quickly?

As for your list, it's pretty slanted, no?

The Kadri trade? He had to go and yes, we didn't get fair value back but that was only after a deal was blocked by Kadri. But sure that's a loss.

Marchment? Hindsight is a great thing but no one in the organization thought he was lost asset to lose sleep over. No mention of Dubas acquiring Hyman for Greg McKegg?

McCann was never a Leaf, he was acquired for Hallinder, that's who we lost in the expansion draft. He did look pretty good as a 1C in Seattle, was he getting that opportunity here? How?

Marleau? That was a pretty crappy contract Dubas inherited and paid to get rid of, he then went out and traded Kapanen for a first to make up for the one we lost. That unfortunately didn't work out.

Mrazek didn't turn out. Sure. Are we really crying about trading down 13 spots (Minten) to unload 100% of it?

The Jonsson signing, sure. Injured and also unloaded.

Foligno. He had a good career before and after his Toronto stint. He was injured and all rentals look bad for teams that don't win. We didn't give up much that Covid draft year.

Euro UFAs? What? We try, if it doesn't work we move on and we do so in a way friendly for the guy that didn't work out. It helps us attract the next ones...like Mikheyev.

The handling of RFAs? You mean the big guys? Nylander's first deal was a steal, the others and JT came in right before the cap went flat. How might they look if we had $15M more to spend with a rising cap?

His "buddy" that he hired has the highest winning percentage in NHL history and was snatched up in 24 hours after we fired him. Lots of experts have NJ going to the cup this year with him.

How about trading down to draft Sandin and then turning Sandin into Cowan? How about Muzzin? Campbell? Hyman? Even Holmberg? Drafting Knies and Robertson outside of the first round? Turning Ritchie and a 2nd into Lyubushkin? Getting Schenn for a third? Timmins for nothing? McCabe and Lafferty?

You can't list the bad ones and not the good ones and please tell me who/which GMs did a better job in the Dubas era, there are probably a couple of them but not many.

 

[DarkKnight]

Looks like the team has finally recovered from the loss of Sam Lafferty. It takes time.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Ya, not a huge turnover.

2/3 forwards come playoff time and 3 D likely...

Stolarz is the wildcard.

It is largely the same team just with the free agents available that year are different.

If we eliminate the Core Five, that means 16 skaters of a 23 man roster are considered "supporting cast." Of those 16, 8 are Treliving editions and 4 are promotions. That's 12/16 of the supporting cast changed. If that doesn't count as a "huge turnover" I don't know what does.

 

[Evilhomer]

If we eliminate the Core Five, that means 16 skaters of a 23 man roster are considered "supporting cast." Of those 16, 8 are Treliving editions and 4 are promotions. That's 12/16 of the supporting cast changed. If that doesn't count as a "huge turnover" I don't know what does.

And yet the single biggest change will be the coach.