Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

DarkKnight

Professional Amateur
Jan 17, 2017
33,812
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What I find funny about people who go hard in the paint against Treliving is the man had to patch up the middle of the roster quickly with a dearth of assets.

We'll see his tendencies as a GM emerge over time, the vision and execution will become more clear as he's had more time to put his stamp on the team.
Exactly, he came in and had to hit the ground running. For me that's part of the reason we kept Keefe, just one less thing to deal with. What I do like, the more he talks, the more I see a coherent vision. Whether that's successful remains to be seen but he does have an idea what he wants. I'm more comfortable with him today then when he was announced.
 

Gabriel426

Registered User
Jun 30, 2015
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Klingberg was a miss, but by design it would have filled quite an urgent need as a PPQB, big point shot, good playoff pedigree, possibly a big minute muncher (as he was in Dallas). You don't get points for trying, but the notion was correct.
I won’t hold injury against MGT.
Like Scott over Swayman at the draft.
The idea was there just that the player was injured
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
81,399
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He also signed Jones, one of the worst goalies in the league over the past half decade, to be his third stringer, that Treliving sent to the minors at the beginning of the season.

Wanna know something funny? Treliving's third string goalie making $800K ended up playing more games for the Leafs, with a superior GAA and Save % than Kyle Dubas' $4 million goalie addition for 2021-22. We couldn't keep Zach Hyman cause we needed Petr Mrazek.

Martin Jones:

2023-24Toronto Maple LeafsNHL2200117056022.8711815180.902

Petr Mrazek:

2021-22Toronto Maple LeafsNHL2000104258003.3412604620.888---
 

Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
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Klingberg was a miss, but by design it would have filled quite an urgent need as a PPQB, big point shot, good playoff pedigree, possibly a big minute muncher (as he was in Dallas). You don't get points for trying, but the notion was correct.
The plan was solid considering Leafs needs at the time of potentially landing a top 4 PPQB.

1715457485450.png


A 1 year gamble at $4.15 mil was worth the risk, Leafs just never benefited from the reward due to player injure .. Leafs might still be playing if a healthy Klingberg fired a PP goal past Swayman in round #1

Remember Klingberg was once among the higher scoring Dman in the league and when Dallas went to the Cup final in 2020 Klingberg recorded 26 games 4 goals 17 assists 21 points.

At the end of the day it was a wash, because Leafs simply re-used his cap hit recapture while on LTIR to replace him.

Perhaps one could view it that an injured Klingberg became Dmen Simon Benoit, Joel Edmundson & Ilya Lyubushkin essential as part of the cap space reinvested. :wg:

Once in a while you want your GM to take a big cut and swing for the fences, as opposed to going down watching and being called out.

1715458455427.png
 

PromisedLand

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Treliving tried to fire Sutter but wasn't permitted.

One of the reasons Treliving left Flames.

This article below is pretty telling how screwed up Flames management is and how they interfere; and why they are stuck in mediocrity -> "all because of ownership"

Treliving's decision to bolt leaves Flames looking lost

Most telling quote from the article is the below:
"This was, without question, Treliving’s choice. He fired the Flames, not the other way around."
 
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Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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Tre doesn't deserve to be raked over the coals for the Klingberg deal, but it's not as if there also weren't red flags at the time of signing either

Klingberg had two poor seasons prior to signing to the the Leafs (there's a reason why he had to sign three consecutive 'prove it' deals), and he also wasn't exactly playing well for the majority of his 14 games with the Leafs.

And once he went down, the team didn't have any plans B for any type of puck movement for the D

Tre lost the gamble, which was fine due to limited risk, just need to hope he gets luckier in a couple months from now
 
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darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
7,388
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Wanna know something funny? Treliving's third string goalie making $800K ended up playing more games for the Leafs, with a superior GAA and Save % than Kyle Dubas' $4 million goalie addition for 2021-22. We couldn't keep Zach Hyman cause we needed Petr Mrazek.

Martin Jones:

2023-24Toronto Maple LeafsNHL2200117056022.8711815180.902

Petr Mrazek:

2021-22Toronto Maple LeafsNHL2000104258003.3412604620.888---
We must never speak again of the horrible mistakes made because our entire payroll goes into 5 players. Dubas had to take yoga to play gymnastics to get out of every stupid move. Then dumped Kadri and Hyman for a bag of pucks. Tre just got the green light to do his thing now. This is Shannys very last chance.
 

PromisedLand

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Dec 3, 2016
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Tre doesn't deserve to be raked over the coals for the Klingberg deal, but it's not as if there also weren't red flags at the time of signing either

Klingberg had two poor seasons prior to signing to the the Leafs (there's a reason why he had to sign three consecutive 'prove it' deals), and he also wasn't exactly playing well for the majority of his 14 games with the Leafs.

And once he went down, the team didn't have any plans B for any type of puck movement for the D

Tre lost the gamble, which was fine due to limited risk, just need to hope he gets luckier in a couple months from now

Do you want me to bump Benoit's thread where everyone was up and in arms about Benoit's Ducks "advanced stats"? or how some were losing their shit on signing Domi for a year?

Klingberg was the right move IMO. Leafs needed a point shot and someone that can drive the play from the backend. It was a one year deal too there was nothing risky about it. It also gives the new GM to see how the team performs.

The only "questionable" doing so far seems to have been keefe extension but doesn't count against the cap so no issues of MLSE board doesn't mind losing money (they paid babcock 20M+ so sit at home, i doubt keefe's contract was as lucrative)

and probably Matthews and Nylander contracts but TBD how they playout in the future. Matthews was once again a solid player in the regular season (without Marner btw...); and brought it in Game 2 - bad luck he got illness and injury. Another bad luck for Willy for the first 3 games but Willy BROUGHT IT in the remaining playoff games and was 2nd highest point producer on the Leafs in regular season.

Treliving truly cannot be judged IMO until 2025-2026 season when Marner and Tavares contracts are officially off the books. If he re-signs one or both of them I will be the first guy with a pitch-fork to call out Treliving. Until then judging Treliving is futile IMO
 
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Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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Do you want me to bump Benoit's thread where everyone was up and in arms about Benoit's Ducks "advanced stats"? or how some were losing their shit on signing Domi for a year?

Klingberg was the right move IMO. Leafs needed a point shot and someone that can drive the play from the backend. It was a one year deal too there was nothing risky about it. It also gives the new GM to see how the team performs.

The only "questionable" doing so far seems to have been keefe extension but doesn't count against the cap so no issues of MLSE board doesn't mind losing money (they paid babcock 20M+ so sit at home, i doubt keefe's contract was as lucrative)

and probably Matthews and Nylander contracts but TBD how they playout in the future. Matthews was once again a solid player in the regular season (without Marner btw...); and brought it in Game 2 - bad luck he got illness and injury. Another bad luck for Willy for the first 3 games but Willy BROUGHT IT in the remaining playoff games and was 2nd highest point producer on the Leafs in regular season.

Treliving truly cannot be judged IMO until 2025-2026 season when Marner and Tavares contracts are officially off the books. If he re-signs one or both of them I will be the first guy with a pitch-fork to call out Treliving. Until then judging Treliving is futile IMO

I don't really think fan sentiment on signings matters all that much when evaluating GM decisions, fans aren't being paid to make the right calls.

Klingberg didn't have the ability to fulfill the need for the Leafs when they signed him. He was no longer the play driver he was when he was at his peak in Dallas several years ago. The front office did well mitigating the risk by keeping it to a one year contracts but imo was a low probability of succeeding too

But I agree it's too early to judge Tre one way or the other. He deserves at least another offseason and tdl to get a better sense of what he can do for the Leafs.
 

Dale Gribble

Registered User
Feb 9, 2019
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If Treliving is allowed to and can find a way to rid this team of Tavares, Marner, and maybe even more, He will absolutely deserve his flowers.

In truth I have two concerns there....
1. is obviously will Shanahan along with Marner and Tavares even allow it.
2. Things didn't work out so well in Calgary, and that team went downhill very quickly with some of the moves Treliving made.

So, while I am clearly not sold on Treliving as GM and potentially future vp or pres of hockey ops, he was the only one during the press conference I actually believed wanted to and knew what the team needed to change.
 

TMLBlueandWhite

Registered User
Feb 2, 2023
1,989
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Stalin wasn't a bad guy just look at Hitler.

So hard to believe there are STILL people defending Dubas by comparing him to Treliving. The Leafs just went from horrible management to horrible management. Comparing the both is like comparing different piles of crap.

They both stink.

Treliving's a mediocre GM whose only ability is overpaying for mediocre talent. His record in Calgary, along with his performance here so far, doesnt give much confidence he'll turn this team around. He failed miserably his first year here.

TAKING A STEP BACKWARDS.

Fewer points, less wins, and out in the first round. Yet, for some reason, there are actually fans who think Treliving's doing a great job. The idea that a GM who is underwhelming at pretty much every aspect of his performance can somehow transform this team into a contender seems wishful thinking at best.

Then again some fans still think Dubas was a good GM too.
 

LeafEgo

Registered User
Oct 8, 2021
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Stalin wasn't a bad guy just look at Hitler.

So hard to believe there are STILL people defending Dubas by comparing him to Treliving. The Leafs just went from horrible management to horrible management. Comparing the both is like comparing different piles of crap.

They both stink.

Treliving's a mediocre GM whose only ability is overpaying for mediocre talent. His record in Calgary, along with his performance here so far, doesnt give much confidence he'll turn this team around. He failed miserably his first year here.

TAKING A STEP BACKWARDS.

Fewer points, less wins, and out in the first round. Yet, for some reason, there are actually fans who think Treliving's doing a great job. The idea that a GM who is underwhelming at pretty much every aspect of his performance can somehow transform this team into a contender seems wishful thinking at best.

Then again some fans still think Dubas was a good GM too.
GLG?
 

TMLBlueandWhite

Registered User
Feb 2, 2023
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I'll cheer then when they do something worth cheering for.

That won't be until they stop disappointing. It's unreasonable to expect fans to cheer for a team that continues to fail to meet expectations year after year. These guys are paid millions of dollars to win.

Until they start doing that I don't see any reason fans should be cheering for them.
 

Martin Skoula

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
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I don't really think fan sentiment on signings matters all that much when evaluating GM decisions, fans aren't being paid to make the right calls.

Klingberg didn't have the ability to fulfill the need for the Leafs when they signed him. He was no longer the play driver he was when he was at his peak in Dallas several years ago. The front office did well mitigating the risk by keeping it to a one year contracts but imo was a low probability of succeeding too

But I agree it's too early to judge Tre one way or the other. He deserves at least another offseason and tdl to get a better sense of what he can do for the Leafs.

The part that tickles me pink is people saying Klingberg was an obvious solution to the powerplay with his big slapshot from the point. It’s like no one’s ever watched him and they’re just going off “lots of points = OFD = slapshot” boxscore shit. The man’s got the amount of goals off clappers from the point that Rielly does. His selling point is that he’s good at walking the line and opening up lanes for a wrist shot, other than that 90% of his goals come from moving up between the circles just like Rielly.

I get the idea, he could have rebounded, but he doesn’t really bring anything new offensively even if he’s healthy. We still wouldn’t have a legitimate point threat that the other team has to respect and open up other lanes, you’re looking at a marginal upgrade on Rielly’s shot that can open up lanes a little better at the tradeoff of higher risk of getting burned if his headfakes don’t work at the line.
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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Do you want me to bump Benoit's thread where everyone was up and in arms about Benoit's Ducks "advanced stats"? or how some were losing their shit on signing Domi for a year?

Klingberg was the right move IMO. Leafs needed a point shot and someone that can drive the play from the backend. It was a one year deal too there was nothing risky about it. It also gives the new GM to see how the team performs.

The only "questionable" doing so far seems to have been keefe extension but doesn't count against the cap so no issues of MLSE board doesn't mind losing money (they paid babcock 20M+ so sit at home, i doubt keefe's contract was as lucrative)

and probably Matthews and Nylander contracts but TBD how they playout in the future. Matthews was once again a solid player in the regular season (without Marner btw...); and brought it in Game 2 - bad luck he got illness and injury. Another bad luck for Willy for the first 3 games but Willy BROUGHT IT in the remaining playoff games and was 2nd highest point producer on the Leafs in regular season.

Treliving truly cannot be judged IMO until 2025-2026 season when Marner and Tavares contracts are officially off the books. If he re-signs one or both of them I will be the first guy with a pitch-fork to call out Treliving. Until then judging Treliving is futile IMO
That’s Leaf fans. They will completely hate and judge something they’ve never seen, Treliving is terrible, don’t hire him, this player sucks, no way we can win with that, but completely ignore something they’ve seen for 8 + years. Just get a new coach (but not Berube because we hate him) and things will be different.
 

horner

Registered User
May 22, 2007
8,558
4,950
Do you want me to bump Benoit's thread where everyone was up and in arms about Benoit's Ducks "advanced stats"? or how some were losing their shit on signing Domi for a year?

Klingberg was the right move IMO. Leafs needed a point shot and someone that can drive the play from the backend. It was a one year deal too there was nothing risky about it. It also gives the new GM to see how the team performs.

The only "questionable" doing so far seems to have been keefe extension but doesn't count against the cap so no issues of MLSE board doesn't mind losing money (they paid babcock 20M+ so sit at home, i doubt keefe's contract was as lucrative)

and probably Matthews and Nylander contracts but TBD how they playout in the future. Matthews was once again a solid player in the regular season (without Marner btw...); and brought it in Game 2 - bad luck he got illness and injury. Another bad luck for Willy for the first 3 games but Willy BROUGHT IT in the remaining playoff games and was 2nd highest point producer on the Leafs in regular season.

Treliving truly cannot be judged IMO until 2025-2026 season when Marner and Tavares contracts are officially off the books. If he re-signs one or both of them I will be the first guy with a pitch-fork to call out Treliving. Until then judging Treliving is futile IMO
Shanahan has left Treliving in a very tough spot with the core .

It should have been dealt with 2 yrs ago.
Treliving is in an impossible position.

Ask Marner to wave his NMC any trade will be pennies on the dollar

JT ask your captain to waive his NMC
I think he is here till his contract is finished

Unless Marner wants out of the fish bowl it won't happen .

I personally think they will bring in a new coach and change the way they play as a 5 man unit.

Jamcrock Kampf and Ljiligren will be traded

Most of our cap will go to defense

We need a dman with a bomb from the point and a pp quarter back
Montour

Until JT's cap is gone then you can judge Treliving
 
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DraftSchmaft

Registered User
Jul 29, 2021
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Rumors already swirling of Tre interested in names like Montour, Pesce, Seth Jones.

Not to mention his no.1 choice was Hanifin until he said F Canada.

I guess this confirms he only likes bottom pairing D for hitzzzz

Seems more like the market was just stale or too expensive for anyone not named Hanifin.
 

Evilhomer

Registered User
Oct 10, 2019
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Rumors already swirling of Tre interested in names like Montour, Pesce, Seth Jones.

Not to mention his no.1 choice was Hanifin until he said F Canada.

I guess this confirms he only likes bottom pairing D for hitzzzz

Seems more like the market was just stale or too expensive for anyone not named Hanifin.
There will be at least a dozen teams interested in Montour and Pesce. Both of those guys are going to get very big contracts. Pesce seems like a reach to me. He has never played in Canada and has no connection to this market.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
47,425
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There will be at least a dozen teams interested in Montour and Pesce. Both of those guys are going to get very big contracts. Pesce seems like a reach to me. He has never played in Canada and has no connection to this market.

What's your point? Jake McCabe had never played in Canada until he came to Toronto either, I'm not sure what point you think you have.
 

notbias

Registered User
Feb 16, 2017
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Klingberg was a miss, but by design it would have filled quite an urgent need as a PPQB, big point shot, good playoff pedigree, possibly a big minute muncher (as he was in Dallas). You don't get points for trying, but the notion was correct.

Klingberg hasn't been good for a long time and wasn't good in his time here, it wasn't just injuries.

What I find funny about people who go hard in the paint against Treliving is the man had to patch up the middle of the roster quickly with a dearth of assets.

We'll see his tendencies as a GM emerge over time, the vision and execution will become more clear as he's had more time to put his stamp on the team.

What middle of the roster? He brought in mostly bottom of the roster guys.

I don't mind most of the guys he brought in, but he signed Domi, Bert, Kampf, Reaves, Sammy, Klingberg, Holmberg, Gregor, and Benoit.

They could have likely just promoted from within and only missed Domi and Benoit there.

The smart move by Treliving for Martin Jones insurance signing saved the Leafs from perhaps a non playoff season.

View attachment 868941

Jones delivered 23 points in 22 games played last year of Leafs 102 points .. This is while Samsonov was clearing NHL waivers unclaimed and unplayable and Woll was injured or MIA.

You subtract the Jones signing from Leafs totals and you have 60 games and 79 points on the season.

Jones was a great #3 and I'd use him again as that, but you are bragging about .500 hockey, this just tells me they were much worse with Jones than without.

It is .658 hockey vs .523 hockey... that is a big gap.

The gap is the gap between the Flyers and Colorado.

What's your point? Jake McCabe had never played in Canada until he came to Toronto either, I'm not sure what point you think you have.

I'm assuming that most players don't want to play in Canada.

The US is better if you have money.
 

Dekes For Days

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Sep 24, 2018
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Perhaps the quality of regular season and playoffs are different, but results in both tell you the quality.
Ah, so we're getting to a little more nuance now. You started off dismissing the regular season, and claiming that "contenders" are only determined by the playoffs, and now after getting caught in a contradiction, your position has suddenly changed again. So exactly how much weight does the mighty Dreakmur allow us to put on each?
Just like regular season games, sample sizes matter.
We finally have you acknowledging sample sizes! Another one off the list! I wonder which sample size would be more representative of a team's quality... the outcome and underlying results of 82 games against 31 different opponents over a 7 month period, or just the end outcome of 4-7 games against one team over a 1-2 week period with no context. Exactly how big of a sample size do we need? Because you seem to be trying to simultaneously dismiss outcomes in a sample size of 4 series, while making contradictory declarations based on the outcome of 1 series.
I got called it for arguing Dubas was quite good at finding under-valued players, though it didn’t always provide results because he was not good at building a balanced team.
The issue is that you correctly identified something that he was good at, instead of pretending that he caused climate change. And yet even as you reminisce about the one compliment you ever gave him, you can't help but simultaneously make inaccurate criticisms.
That explains why I know I'm in the middle - I get into disagreements with both side of the fringes.
And people in the middle, like me. Getting into disagreements with everybody doesn't make you in the middle, or right.
You have your predetermined agenda of espousing the greatness of Kyle Dubas, and you make whatever argument you think best fits that agenda.
My only "predetermined agenda" is following the facts, and evaluating things fairly and accurately, with context. Unlike many, I evaluate all players, teams, and GMs the same way, regardless of who they are. It's not my fault that Treliving is making bad decisions. I'd love it if he didn't.
Oh you've absolutely blamed luck every year.
No, you just accuse people of "blaming luck" when they consider any of the context that you suddenly started considering once the GM changed to Treliving.
Pretty sure that was the best option at that time.
Unless he was supposed to let him walk for nothing and sign Laurent Brossoit, Anthony Stolarz or Mackenzie Blackwood.
So have we finally reached acknowledgement that Treliving chose to sign Samsonov, and then chose to go into the playoffs with no goalie changes? It seems like now that the GM is different, you're eager to consider context like the options actually available to a GM, and the fact that decisions that are "good at the time" don't always turn out well, but I think the first step is admitting what he did.
He signed Jones, who basically saved out season when he took the reigns....
We didn't even have a good record in the limited games we played with Jones, so I'm not sure how he "saved our season". He came up and filled in nicely for a stretch, before going back to struggling. Which is perfectly fine for a third stringer, and it turned into a good acquisition by Treliving for that role, but I'm not sure what the goalie that Treliving chose for his third stringer has to do with the playoffs.
When you have no cap space, and very few assets to trade, options are limited.
We had a ton of cap space and assets. Every option was available to him. I think it's just that people are finally realizing that acquiring dominant goaltending is easier said than done.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
41,988
12,398
Ah, so we're getting to a little more nuance now. You started off dismissing the regular season, and claiming that "contenders" are only determined by the playoffs, and now after getting caught in a contradiction, your position has suddenly changed again. So exactly how much weight does the mighty Dreakmur allow us to put on each?

We finally have you acknowledging sample sizes! Another one off the list! I wonder which sample size would be more representative of a team's quality... the outcome and underlying results of 82 games against 31 different opponents over a 7 month period, or just the end outcome of 4-7 games against one team over a 1-2 week period with no context. Exactly how big of a sample size do we need? Because you seem to be trying to simultaneously dismiss outcomes in a sample size of 4 series, while making contradictory declarations based on the outcome of 1 series.

The issue is that you correctly identified something that he was good at, instead of pretending that he caused climate change. And yet even as you reminisce about the one compliment you ever gave him, you can't help but simultaneously make inaccurate criticisms.

And people in the middle, like me. Getting into disagreements with everybody doesn't make you in the middle, or right.

My only "predetermined agenda" is following the facts, and evaluating things fairly and accurately, with context. Unlike many, I evaluate all players, teams, and GMs the same way, regardless of who they are. It's not my fault that Treliving is making bad decisions. I'd love it if he didn't.

No, you just accuse people of "blaming luck" when they consider any of the context that you suddenly started considering once the GM changed to Treliving.

So have we finally reached acknowledgement that Treliving chose to sign Samsonov, and then chose to go into the playoffs with no goalie changes? It seems like now that the GM is different, you're eager to consider context like the options actually available to a GM, and the fact that decisions that are "good at the time" don't always turn out well, but I think the first step is admitting what he did.

We didn't even have a good record in the limited games we played with Jones, so I'm not sure how he "saved our season". He came up and filled in nicely for a stretch, before going back to struggling. Which is perfectly fine for a third stringer, and it turned into a good acquisition by Treliving for that role, but I'm not sure what the goalie that Treliving chose for his third stringer has to do with the playoffs.

We had a ton of cap space and assets. Every option was available to him. I think it's just that people are finally realizing that acquiring dominant goaltending is easier said than done.

Or you could just put reality goggles on and stick to the facts.

Dubas

Poor contract negotiatior.
Poor team builder. Soft
Could not assemble team to develop D or Gs
Could not generate PO success.
Did not move on from a coach that struggled in the NHL.
Traded far too many picks for no playoff success.

So yeah. Dubas was a complete failure and is gone because of it.
 

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