Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[Nineteen67]

Ya, terrible season and really struggled with that first round matchup. Would've cleared that up if they extended him.

And here I thought they played four rounds. Can’t possibly be a distraction.

 

[Dreakmur]

He's not the first person in Leafs management to understand that.

In this regime, he is.

Simmonds, Thornton, O'Reilly, Acciari, Lafferty, Clifford (twice), Bunting, etc...

Over the course of 6 season, not all at once.

Brodie, Muzzin, Schenn, McCabe, Lyubushkin,

Brodie is softer than baby crap, and the others were added over 6 seasons.

No one said they weren't, I said they were 50/50 and as you are about to confirm, they were.

None were flat out bad.

It was a bad signing. He attached his wagon to the wrong horse and it showed.

He specifically did not attach his wagon to him…

How useful was he when he was here? Not at all. Then he was gone. Bad use of cap space. I'm fine with him making a mistake, but let's not try to pretend that a) it wasn't a terrible signing and b) that he was anywhere close to what we needed (or that he is particularly a hard nosed kind of player, that's kind of laughable).

Our PP has been a problem. He added a guy who, if healthy, would have really helped.

He has literally extended everyone he has been allowed to, from players to coach (who finally got canned though the candidate pool is crap). Marner is likely going to be extended (and should) and Tavares will be off the books next year. So... the same thing that would happen regardless.

He extended the two players who SHOULD be extended. He has yet to extended anyone who shouldn't be.

 

[tuckerintensity]

In this regime, he is.

I mean, if you forget about quite literally every other player we've brought in of that ilk, sure.

Over the course of 6 season, not all at once.

And the list is a lot longer than was posted, you got the picture. We've done this. We've done this more than once.

Brodie is softer than baby crap, and the others were added over 6 seasons.

He was better for us than Klingberg, who is also softer than baby crap. You seem to change what you want as the conversation goes because you can't continue to pretend Treliving has done anything differently anymore.

None were flat out bad.

At least two were flat out bad.

He specifically did not attach his wagon to him…

Except for he wasted cap space on a shite signing. Which is weird, because you just said none of them were bad.

Our PP has been a problem. He added a guy who, if healthy, would have really helped.

He was not helping when he was healthy. And everyone seemed to know he wasn't very healthy except Treliving. Weird.

He extended the two players who SHOULD be extended. He has yet to extended anyone who shouldn't be.

He extended every single member of the core he has been allowed to. It's interesting, no one thought that should be Willie in the off-season either. And then right after the signing, again. Now all of the sudden it was right?

Again and again, Treliving has shown he's willing to do exactly what the last guy did (and the guy before that, really). But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your blind rage.

And here I thought they played four rounds. Can’t possibly be a distraction.

Well, they are only in the second round and playing the best team in the league.

 

[Dreakmur]

I mean, if you forget about quite literally every other player we've brought in of that ilk, sure.

After last year's trade deadline was the only other time during the Shanahan era where we had more than a couple of gritty guys.

He was better for us than Klingberg, who is also softer than baby crap. You seem to change what you want as the conversation goes because you can't continue to pretend Treliving has done anything differently anymore.

You added Brodie to a list of "toughness" adds. I explained why the Klingberg signing could have worked out if he was healthy. Those are two competely separate discussions.

At least two were flat out bad.

Samsonov was hot and cold, but a one year deal for him was probably the best option at the time. He obviously didn't really trust Samsonov, which explains how the contract was handled.

Klingberg was a zero. He got hurt and his contract was removed from the cap.

He extended every single member of the core he has been allowed to. It's interesting, no one thought that should be Willie in the off-season either. And then right after the signing, again. Now all of the sudden it was right?

I think Nylander got overpaid, but he was the correct winger to sign.

Again and again, Treliving has shown he's willing to do exactly what the last guy did (and the guy before that, really). But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your blind rage.

Again and again.... for the *checks calendar* less than a year he's been here.....

 

[Maple Leaf]

Need new president of hockey operations and new general manager for sure

 

[Nineteen67]

I mean, if you forget about quite literally every other player we've brought in of that ilk, sure.

And the list is a lot longer than was posted, you got the picture. We've done this. We've done this more than once.

He was better for us than Klingberg, who is also softer than baby crap. You seem to change what you want as the conversation goes because you can't continue to pretend Treliving has done anything differently anymore.

At least two were flat out bad.

Except for he wasted cap space on a shite signing. Which is weird, because you just said none of them were bad.

He was not helping when he was healthy. And everyone seemed to know he wasn't very healthy except Treliving. Weird.

He extended every single member of the core he has been allowed to. It's interesting, no one thought that should be Willie in the off-season either. And then right after the signing, again. Now all of the sudden it was right?

Again and again, Treliving has shown he's willing to do exactly what the last guy did (and the guy before that, really). But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your blind rage.

Well, they are only in the second round and playing the best team in the league.

Yes, hence the stupidity of the unnecessary distraction.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Hindsight has proven those people wrong…

No, they remain correct. Their status/quality and outcome are separate things.

Spin spin spin any situation to fabricate Dubas successes. He had some actual good decisions - you should just focus on those and stop pretending he was perfect.

I'm not sure how you're accusing others of "spin" in support of a GM, when you're the one switching your position on everything now that Treliving is in charge, while I've remained consistent in my positions and how I evaluate GMs throughout. I've never pretended that Dubas was perfect. Nobody is perfect. I just don't have the weird irrational hatred that some have for him and everything that he's ever done. I am able to recognize a good GM, and I appreciate and value that after decades of garbage GMs destroying this team. If the team had followed up Dubas with something other than going full dive back into the kool aid and dinosaur mentalities, we wouldn't be seeing the drop-off and red flags we're seeing, and there wouldn't be such an issue.

Montreal were a terrible team who ran into some easy opponents and lucked their way into the finals.

The fact that you're suddenly talking about luck - not to mention opponent quality and injuries - impacting playoff outcomes is just *chef's kiss*.
It's good to know that the regular season is irrelevant, and only playoffs matter when determining contender status and team quality... unless Dreakmur arbitrarily decides otherwise.
It's good to know that we get to dismiss playoff outcomes due to opponent quality and injuries and luck... unless Dreakmur arbitrarily decides otherwise.
It's good to know that we're allowed excuses... but only when Dreakmur arbitrarily decides that they are "legitimate".
Seems like your positions on these things shift an awful lot to get whatever conclusion you want in the moment.

You provided your warped view of their performances.

This is now your third response to this, and you've still been unable to dispute a single thing I said in my description. You may not want to admit it, but you know I was accurate.

Tre had to sign a capable starter.

And the starter he chose to sign was Samsonov.

Yea it is… but you said Tre decided to play him.

No I didn't. I said that Treliving made a choice to go into the playoffs with him. He didn't acquire any goalies throughout the year.

It’s too bad you convinced me that the AHL GMs acquire guys when we had this same conversation about Justin Holl.

I don't even know what you're referring to, but I'm not sure why you think it makes a difference anyway, since the AHL GM that Dubas hired doing something under Dubas still goes back to Dubas.

 

[PromisedLand]

Treliving don't be a freakin' dumbass. Say it with me



Toronto Maple Leafs are proud to present your coach Joel Quenneville

 

[mapleleaf979]

Treliving has brought in more grit and toughness. He phucked up Nylander's contract though and overpaid Matthews. Matthews will never want the cup more than the max amount of money.

 

[Donnie740]

Treliving‘a biggest mistake last summer was giving Bozo the Keefe a two year extension. But he corrected that mistake today by firing the clown.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

i think tre and shanny are lucky to be still employed .sounds like pelley is pissed

Shanny? Maybe we will see what happens with him today.

But why Treliving? he hasn't even been here a year it won't be a year until sometime in June, I think It's the 1st.

Give it time.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Model Citizen Carolina letting a lot of people down in this thread.

 

[Dreakmur]

No, they remain correct. Their status/quality and outcome are separate things.

Their quality its determined by the outcomes…

I'm not sure how you're accusing others of "spin" in support of a GM, when you're the one switching your position on everything now that Treliving is in charge, while I've remained consistent in my positions and how I evaluate GMs throughout. I've never pretended that Dubas was perfect. Nobody is perfect. I just don't have the weird irrational hatred that some have for him and everything that he's ever done. I am able to recognize a good GM, and I appreciate and value that after decades of garbage GMs destroying this team. If the team had followed up Dubas with something other than going full dive back into the kool aid and dinosaur mentalities, we wouldn't be seeing the drop-off and red flags we're seeing, and there wouldn't be such an issue.

You do know I've been called a "Dubasite", right? Fair evaluation always looks weird to the maniacs on either end of the fringes.

My opinion on the job he did has evolved as we received more evidence of the results. I've allowed the facts to determine my opion. You, on the other hand, have allowed your opinion to determine the facts - and then there are no facts, you fabricate some.

The fact that you're suddenly talking about luck - not to mention opponent quality and injuries - impacting playoff outcomes is just *chef's kiss*.
It's good to know that the regular season is irrelevant, and only playoffs matter when determining contender status and team quality... unless Dreakmur arbitrarily decides otherwise.
It's good to know that we get to dismiss playoff outcomes due to opponent quality and injuries and luck... unless Dreakmur arbitrarily decides otherwise.
It's good to know that we're allowed excuses... but only when Dreakmur arbitrarily decides that they are "legitimate".
Seems like your positions on these things shift an awful lot to get whatever conclusion you want in the moment.

Don't be confused. I ridicule you for believing we ONLY lose because of bad luck. That's not the same as me not believing luck ever plays a role.

And the starter he chose to sign was Samsonov.

The GM signs multiple goalie, and the coach decides who's playing.

No I didn't. I said that Treliving made a choice to go into the playoffs with him. He didn't acquire any goalies throughout the year.

Tre had 3 NHL goalies right from the start of the season.

 

[Superstar]

Treliving‘a biggest mistake last summer was giving Bozo the Keefe a two year extension. But he corrected that mistake today by firing the clown.

The contract is for the team, not just Keefe...it might be hard for any team to listen and rally around a lame duck coach, that's why Keefe was extended...even with the contract, Tre is under no obligation to keep Keefe around if he failed, and he didn't.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I've been very happy with Treliving up to this point, Klingberg signing aside everything he's done has worked out.

This Marner trade, if it happens is where I could start to turn, it won't happen over night but It's where things could start to turn for me.

I don't want to see him traded just for the sake of trading him.

If they do this the return has to be substantial.

They lost because they couldn't score, I'm not sure how trading Marner helps that.

So if they are going to do it the return has to be substantial, this can't be a futures deal, you can't trade him for magic beans.

 

[hullsy47]

I've been very happy with Treliving up to this point, Klingberg signing aside everything he's done has worked out.

This Marner trade, if it happens is where I could start to turn, it won't happen over night but It's where things could start to turn for me.

I don't want to see him traded just for the sake of trading him.

If they do this the return has to be substantial.

They lost because they couldn't score, I'm not sure how trading Marner helps that.

So if they are going to do it the return has to be substantial, this can't be a futures deal, you can't trade him for magic beans.

can u imagine if he couldve got zadorov and tanev .the man can build a defence .and i doubt he gets bent over in a core 4 trade
just keep gutless shanahan way

 

[Dekes For Days]

Their quality its determined by the outcomes…

Their quality and the playoff outcome are separate things. You've literally argued against your own position in this very discussion when it was about a successful playoff team that you didn't want to be considered good.

You do know I've been called a "Dubasite", right?

People around here will call anybody a "Dubasite" if they do anything other than pretend Dubas kicks puppies in the face every day. It doesn't mean anything.

Fair evaluation always looks weird to the maniacs on either end of the fringes.

That would explain why you take such issue with my fair evaluations.

My opinion on the job he did has evolved as we received more evidence of the results. I've allowed the facts to determine my opion.

I also let the facts determine my opinion. The difference is that I align my opinion with the facts, instead of contradicting them. I also utilize a consistent approach and methodology for evaluating players, teams, and GMs, instead of one that's constantly changing to fit the desired conclusion.

I ridicule you for believing we ONLY lose because of bad luck. That's not the same as me not believing luck ever plays a role.

I've never said we only lose because of luck. I've merely acknowledged that there are external factors that impact playoff outcomes. You're all too happy to acknowledge that when it suits your narrative, but when it doesn't, you self-admittedly "ridicule" people for doing the same thing you do.

The GM signs multiple goalie, and the coach decides who's playing.
Tre had 3 NHL goalies right from the start of the season.

As you said, Treliving "had to sign a capable starter." The choice he decided to make was to sign Samsonov.
He also signed Jones, one of the worst goalies in the league over the past half decade, to be his third stringer, that Treliving sent to the minors at the beginning of the season.
And then Treliving made the choice to change nothing throughout the year and ride with the goalies he initially chose into the playoffs.

 

[Dreakmur]

Their quality and the playoff outcome are separate things. You've literally argued against your own position in this very discussion when it was about a successful playoff team that you didn't want to be considered good.

Perhaps the quality of regular season and playoffs are different, but results in both tell you the quality.

Just like regular season games, sample sizes matter. A team can have an irregular number of good or bad games and that can change their playoff outcomes, but when you always lose, that’s how good you are..

People around here will call anybody a "Dubasite" if they do anything other than pretend Dubas kicks puppies in the face every day. It doesn't mean anything.

I got called it for arguing Dubas was quite good at finding under-valued players, though it didn’t always provide results because he was not good at building a balanced team.

That would explain why you take such issue with my fair evaluations.

That explains why I know I'm in the middle - I get into disagreements with both side of the fringes.

I also let the facts determine my opinion. The difference is that I align my opinion with the facts, instead of contradicting them. I also utilize a consistent approach and methodology for evaluating players, teams, and GMs, instead of one that's constantly changing to fit the desired conclusion.

You have your predetermined agenda of espousing the greatness of Kyle Dubas, and you make whatever argument you think best fits that agenda.

Even the guy you worship has admitted this team construction was wrong.... and then the guy who hired the guy admitted it was wrong. Only you still think every decision he ever made was genius.

I've never said we only lose because of luck. I've merely acknowledged that there are external factors that impact playoff outcomes. You're all too happy to acknowledge that when it suits your narrative, but when it doesn't, you self-admittedly "ridicule" people for doing the same thing you do.

Oh you've absolutely blamed luck every year. It's one of the most reliable things on this message board.

As you said, Treliving "had to sign a capable starter." The choice he decided to make was to sign Samsonov.

Pretty sure that was the best option at that time. Unless he was supposed to let him walk for nothing and sign Laurent Brossoit, Anthony Stolarz or Mackenzie Blackwood.

He also signed Jones, one of the worst goalies in the league over the past half decade, to be his third stringer, that Treliving sent to the minors at the beginning of the season.

He signed Jones, who basically saved out season when he took the reigns....

And then Treliving made the choice to change nothing throughout the year and ride with the goalies he initially chose into the playoffs.

When you have no cap space, and very few assets to trade, options are limited. Unless you think the solution was to add another middling starter?

Do we want Jake Allen for 2 million bucks? Oh, can't even do that with no 2nd round picks...

 

[DarkKnight]

How you know you’re a mindless Dubist, you actually carve the Jones signing, who literally saved our ass mid season. I mean, it just shows the most blatant bias and reinforces my belief that engaging is a useless rhetorical exercise.

 

[Mess]

How you know you’re a mindless Dubist, you actually carve the Jones signing, who literally saved our ass mid season. I mean, it just shows the most blatant bias and reinforces my belief that engaging is a useless rhetorical exercise.

The smart move by Treliving for Martin Jones insurance signing saved the Leafs from perhaps a non playoff season.

Jones delivered 23 points in 22 games played last year of Leafs 102 points .. This is while Samsonov was clearing NHL waivers unclaimed and unplayable and Woll was injured or MIA.

You subtract the Jones signing from Leafs totals and you have 60 games and 79 points on the season.

 

[DarkKnight]

The smart move by Treliving for Martin Jones insurance signing saved the Leafs from perhaps a non playoff season.

View attachment 868941

Jones delivered 23 points in 22 games played last year of Leafs 102 points .. This is while Samsonov was clearing NHL waivers unclaimed and unplayable and Woll was injured or MIA.

You subtract the Jones signing from Leafs totals and you have 60 games and 79 points on the season.

To even mention it as negative is just such a tell. Go to the Pitt board and get it over with.

 

[Gabriel426]

Tre just started and what he had done is changing the direction and culture of the Leafs.

Klingberg just got injured but he was what needed, a Dman that could QB the PP and move and skate then pick out of our own zone.

Revo was good when needed

Bert and Domi showed we don’t need 11mil players to play with each other in order for them to earn their salary.

Dewar, Webber, Edmundson and Boosh are all likely to resign due to having cap space as long as they want to.

Is Tre doing a great job, absolutely not as the Leafs ain’t playing now.
But his direction is there and can see what he is doing.

 

[Stephen]

How you know you’re a mindless Dubist, you actually carve the Jones signing, who literally saved our ass mid season. I mean, it just shows the most blatant bias and reinforces my belief that engaging is a useless rhetorical exercise.

What I find funny about people who go hard in the paint against Treliving is the man had to patch up the middle of the roster quickly with a dearth of assets.

We'll see his tendencies as a GM emerge over time, the vision and execution will become more clear as he's had more time to put his stamp on the team.

 

[Stephen]

Klingberg just got injured but he was what needed, a Dman that could QB the PP and move and skate then pick out of our own zone.

Klingberg was a miss, but by design it would have filled quite an urgent need as a PPQB, big point shot, good playoff pedigree, possibly a big minute muncher (as he was in Dallas). You don't get points for trying, but the notion was correct.

 

[All Mod Cons]

To even mention it as negative is just such a tell. Go to the Pitt board and get it over with.

If people stop interacting with them, they probably will.