Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[ToneDog]

they should just make a Dubas is the greatest GM in History thread, and them 4 or 5 posters can go post in there, while the posters who actually care about this team moving forward and want to actually see the team succeed, can carry on, I mean it makes sense

Dubas is the greatest GM in History - I miss Dubas.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The leafs went to 7 games despite 12 goals. That means our aggresive and physical defense strategy did a good job at limiting goals

Boston has a weak offence.

 

[hamzarocks]

Boston has a weak offence.

And they have a weak defense yet there defense limited us to 12 goals only

 

[Dekes For Days]

They may have been incorrectly viewed as contenders by people who don't know that play-off hockey is different than regular season hockey.

They were correctly viewed as contenders by pretty much everybody.

Let's say you're right, and I'm being a hypocrite here, do you think that absolves you of the same?

It wouldn't, but I haven't done that. I've always acknowledged context and impacting factors in the playoffs, just like this year. I've always evaluated teams by more than just playoff series outcomes, just like this year. The simple fact that we lost our series is the least of the things I hold against Treliving. Everything else about it, and the rest of the season, and his decisions, focus, history, etc. are much more concerning. But some spent years proclaiming that context is just loser excuses that should be ignored, and the only thing that matters is playoff series outcomes, only to 180 on it all once Treliving was in charge.

As I said at the time, losing Tavares was bad.... but if you're a Tavares injury away from losing to Montreal, then you weren't very good to begin with.

It wasn't just Tavares. We had injuries to Tavares, Matthews, Hyman, Foligno, and Muzzin. That's 2/3 of our top six (including our best player), and our top pairing defenseman that anchored our shutdown pairing. It also doesn't make a lot of sense that you'd dump on Montreal, since even if we ignore that the quality of a team is higher when they get dominant goaltending instead of below average goaltending, Montreal went to the Cup finals, so by your definition, they'd be contenders.

Desperate attempts to validate your idol's failures.

I provided an accurate description of how Treliving's additions performed in the playoffs. You have nothing to say, because you know I'm right.

He made the best choice of a pile of bad options he walked into.

He walked into Woll on a great contract, not locked into anything else, with the option to qualify Samsonov, and plenty of cap space. I'm not sure how you can consider that a horrible situation while simultaneously claiming that doing absolutely nothing to change the goalies that offseason or the entire year was the best possible choice.

That's a coaching decision.

Acquiring goalies is a GM decision.

The non-prospect that was acquired by Laurence Gillman.

The prospect that was acquired under Dubas, by either Dubas or the AHL GM that Dubas hired, that was then signed to his NHL contract by Dubas.

That's because the team who has the puck can't hit anyone.

Exactly.

 

[ToneDog]

And they have a weak defense yet there defense limited us to 12 goals only

Big test for Swayman tonight. It was so Leafy to take Scott and leave Swayman for the Bruins.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Is there a correlation between number of hits and playoffs wins? I ask honestly because it seems like it would be a pretty tenuous connection.

If anything, the correlation would trend towards the more you hit, the less you win in the playoffs. The lesser hitting team was 7-1 in the first round this year. 12 out of 18 Cup winners in the cap era have been a below average hitting team in the playoffs. The average hits per 60 for Cup winners is less than our average this year, less than our average through the Dubas years, and less than our average through the whole Matthews era. The focus on it was always misguided.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Boston has a weak offence.

... which just scored 5 against the much better Panthers.

 

[Evilhomer]

There was nothing determental about the defense this year

We only scored 12 goals, the PP went 1 for 22 or whatever.

The leafs went to 7 games despite 12 goals. That means our aggresive and physical defense strategy did a good job at limiting goals. We gave up 18 in 7 games which is outstanding

I think shots against we also did a good job with the leafa having better looks at 5v5 but our players choking again

Ideally we just need to upgrade lilijgren i to a better PMD and the defense with Rielly type, mcCabe Type, Edmunson And Benoit Types is great

Boston has 1 great puck mover in McAvoy, 1 good in Lindholm and then nothing else really (Carlo is a Edmunson/Benoit, Wotherspoon a worse Lilijgren, Grezlyk a lubushkin, and then Lohrei is aj unproven guy who is more defensive Dman than PMD)

Detrimental may have been the wrong choice of words - what I should have said is that the over-emphasis on acquiring that type of defenseman came at the expense of acquiring puck-moving defensemen (as they initially tried with Klingberg). Instead of creating a balance, they kind of swung too far over to one side. Now, this is something that can certainly be fixed in the off-season, but I think a factor in the forwards not scoring, and in the power play not scoring, is the lack of offense from the defense.

 

[hamzarocks]

Detrimental may have been the wrong choice of words - what I should have said is that the over-emphasis on acquiring that type of defenseman came at the expense of acquiring puck-moving defensemen (as they initially tried with Klingberg). Instead of creating a balance, they kind of swung too far over to one side. Now, this is something that can certainly be fixed in the off-season, but I think a factor in the forwards not scoring, and in the power play not scoring, is the lack of offense from the defense.

We we cant fix our PP as 40M is used there on forward and another 7.5M on rielly

Rielly upgrade will cost a core piece to acquire

We do need to bring 1 more PMD who is a #2 or 3D

 

[HamiltonNHL]

We we cant fix our PP as 40M is used there on forward and another 7.5M on rielly

Rielly upgrade will cost a core piece to acquire

We do need to bring 1 more PMD who is a #2 or 3D

What a crap fest

My preferred strategy of building net outwards or at least getting solid D would turn out better than this shit show

The Leafs suck. The NHL sucks. Bettman sucks. The playoff format sucks. Scotiabank arena and bank sucks. The Jays suck. Vladdy sucks ice cream. The Raptors really suck.

Please please trade Marner.

 

[Dreakmur]

They were correctly viewed as contenders by pretty much everybody.

Hindsight has proven those people wrong…

It wouldn't, but I haven't done that. I've always acknowledged context and impacting factors in the playoffs, just like this year. I've always evaluated teams by more than just playoff series outcomes, just like this year. The simple fact that we lost our series is the least of the things I hold against Treliving. Everything else about it, and the rest of the season, and his decisions, focus, history, etc. are much more concerning. But some spent years proclaiming that context is just loser excuses that should be ignored, and the only thing that matters is playoff series outcomes, only to 180 on it all once Treliving was in charge.

You are the master of it. Spin spin spin any situation to fabricate Dubas successes. He had some actual good decisions - you should just focus on those and stop pretending he was perfect.

It wasn't just Tavares. We had injuries to Tavares, Matthews, Hyman, Foligno, and Muzzin. That's 2/3 of our top six (including our best player), and our top pairing defenseman that anchored our shutdown pairing. It also doesn't make a lot of sense that you'd dump on Montreal, since even if we ignore that the quality of a team is higher when they get dominant goaltending instead of below average goaltending, Montreal went to the Cup finals, so by your definition, they'd be contenders.

Montreal were a terrible team who ran into some easy opponents and lucked their way into the finals. Cinderella teams are overly uncommon, but they were never contenders (hence the Cinderella moniker)

I provided an accurate description of how Treliving's additions performed in the playoffs. You have nothing to say, because you know I'm right.

You provided your warped view of their performances. As usual, you missed anything that wasn’t presented to you in a bar graph.

He walked into Woll on a great contract, not locked into anything else, with the option to qualify Samsonov, and plenty of cap space. I'm not sure how you can consider that a horrible situation while simultaneously claiming that doing absolutely nothing to change the goalies that offseason or the entire year was the best possible choice.

Woll was I unproven and injury prone. Tre had to sign a capable starter.

Acquiring goalies is a GM decision.

Yea it is… but you said Tre decided to play him. Spin spin spin!

The prospect that was acquired under Dubas, by either Dubas or the AHL GM that Dubas hired, that was then signed to his NHL contract by Dubas.

It’s too bad you convinced me that the AHL GMs acquire guys when we had this same conversation about Justin Holl. But you’re never hypocritical…… spin spin spin!

 

[hamzarocks]

What a crap fest

My preferred strategy of building net outwards or at least getting solid D would turn out better than this shit show

The Leafs suck. The NHL sucks. Bettman sucks. The playoff format sucks. Scotiabank arena and bank sucks. The Jays suck. Vladdy sucks ice cream. The Raptors really suck.

Please please trade Marner.

Its call the "lol Im cursed" curse

everything in toronto has sucked since 2019

 

[Trapper]

Tre is going to ask the Swami what to do:
Answer: Sheldon Keefe, Mitch Marner, John Tavares

 

[Racer88]

One less round was won this year, good job Brad.



Sammy was re-signed by Treliving... this is always glossed over.

Woll was re-signed by Dubas just so you know.

If you want to just start assigning players drafted to each GM, then all the playoff failures are Lou's fault.



Treliving regressed the team, he made the team worse, unless, the results don't matter anymore?

I’m all for firing Treliving as well

 

[Trapper]

Boston has a weak offence.

Leafs have a weak offense too. About a “week” into the postseason they are done.

 

[notbias]

I’m all for firing Treliving as well

I don't care if we fire him, give him another year if you want, and see how he does... he just worries me based on past decisions and what he prioritizes.

He has 20 million to spend again, hopefully, it is spent better.

If you do fire him, at least have a better replacement in line this time.

 

[Havoc]

What's all this garbage about x y z team is better than us just because people decided to pop in and catch a game or 2.

Those same teams watched the tight checking intense games 5 to 7 and probably said thank god we don't face Leafs or Bruins next.

This thread is whack and embarrassing

We get. We need a 2 way top 4 D. Where were all you idiots when people were saying we have no backend transition last year and the year before and the year before that? You only care now?

Shut up.

 

[Havoc]

The physicality stuff is so overrated. Neither Dallas and Colorado, nor Rangers and Carolina, were pounding on each last night. What they were doing was scoring goals, including lots of power play goals.

Wow. I feel sorry for you guys this is the quality of posts you get to read in this thread.

You just basically stated that 4 teams all played the same style and there was 2 winners.

How does that prove a team like Leafs or Bruins who bring a heavier playoff style wouldn't absolutely smash these 4 in a 7 game series ?

There's literally zero compare and contrast in your example genius.

Also you other geniuses are assuming the goal scoring issues would translate to round 2. You have literally no proof. New opponent new styles

 

[Havoc]

If there's one thing I really want it's puck moving shooting D.

We do need this but Leafs are fully capable of stacking their top 6 and fully smash a team that wants to go skill versus skill. On top of that we can smash in front of the net and the boards (dzone). A team like the Canes aren't built to face a team like ours but sadly we don't face them.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

We do need this but Leafs are fully capable of stacking their top 6 and fully smash a team that wants to go skill versus skill. On top of that we can smash in front of the net and the boards (dzone). A team like the Canes aren't built to face a team like ours but sadly we don't face them.

This is why I want Keefe gone. We could have countered so many times by stacking the top 6 and running it back to back.

Weird moments like Jarnkrok out instead of Domi. Matthews and Nylander should have played entire game 7 together.

 

[Menzinger]

Re the D discussion and Tre,

I liked the physicality from them and the ability to block out the Bruins forwards from the net - to the point I'd even be okay with an Edmundson extension.

That said, imo there's no denying offensively the D were completely anemic, which in turn didn't exactly help the teams goal scoring this series..at best most of the guys could broadly lob the puck at the general direction of the Bruins net, let alone try and help set up a play at even strength.

Tre will need to add at least two D who are at minimum average with pucks skills this offseason

 

[notbias]

Re the D discussion and Tre,

I liked the physicality from them and the ability to block out the Bruins forwards from the net - to the point I'd even be okay with an Edmundson extension.

That said, imo there's no denying offensively the D were completely anemic, which in turn didn't exactly help the teams goal scoring this series..at best most of the guys could broadly lob the puck at the general direction of the Bruins net, let alone try and help set up a play at even strength.

Tre will need to add at least two D who are at minimum average with pucks skills this offseason

Had 4th highest xGAA/60.

Had the most high-danger chances against and 4th in medium-danger (not sure what it is per 60, but overall, still bad)

I think Woll saved some perceptions of our D (Samsanov also made it worse than it should have been).

Woll had the highest goals saved above expected in only 2 and 1/3 games.

His per 60 on that is double the next person.

Sammy is pretty even here (assuming game 7 saved this for him).

65% of our giveaways are D-zone giveaways.

 

[Menzinger]

Had 4th highest xGAA/60.

Had the most high-danger chances against and 4th in medium-danger (not sure what it is per 60, but overall, still bad)

I think Woll saved some perceptions of our D (Samsanov also made it worse than it should have been).

65% of our giveaways are D-zone giveaways.

I do agree it's 100% fair to say that Woll (and even Sammy a few times) made up for the lack of puck movement from the D. We need guys who can do more than just ice the puck under pressure.

There's room for a guy like Edmundson or Boosh (not sure both) but they need to be with guys who can actually handle the other element of defence.

There needs to be 3-4, new bodies brought in, and a guy or two moved out

 

[notbias]

I do agree it's 100% fair to say that Woll (and even Sammy a few times) made up for the lack of puck movement from the D. We need guys who can do more than just ice the puck under pressure.

There's room for a guy like Edmundson or Boosh (not sure both) but they need to be with guys who can actually handle the other element of defence.

There needs to be 3-4, new bodies brought in, and a guy or two moved out

Bring in more guys like Benoit/McCabe... they at least have some puck skill and can skate.

There needs to be a combination.

I think we put far too much emphasis on size on the back end and completely forgot about any skill.

Looking through some free agents, if they are going after someone bigger, Montour is a nice target.

Would also take a look at Demelo, he might be a good medium-cost guy.

Ghost would be a decent PP guy, but I think he will be too expensive for what he brings.

Pesce I think may be a little too expensive for what he brings.

 

[Menzinger]

Bring in more guys like Benoit/McCabe... they at least have some puck skill and can skate.

There needs to be a combination.

I think we put far too much emphasis on size on the back end and completely forgot about any skill.

Looking through some free agents, if they are going after someone bigger, Montour is a nice target.

Would also take a look at Demelo, he might be a good medium-cost guy.

Ghost would be a decent PP guy, but I think he will be too expensive for what he brings.

Pesce I think may be a little too expensive for what he brings.

I think Benoit is the type they will ideally target. Physical, but can do a bit of puck work, and is also in the right age range. Montour would definitely be nice.

I'd imagine Tre will inquire about Zadorov given the rumors earlier in the season. Though I wonder if he may price himself out of here