Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[Dreakmur]

He was the fire department. He responded to a house on fire, put it out, gave a fire safety lesson to the owners, handed them a bunch of fire extinguishers, cleaned up their house, and forced them to fix fire hazards. And then when the house owner burnt down his house the next year anyway despite all that, you're somehow still blaming the fire department. Also, a bit weird how you advocated for considering the context, and then ignored all the context to make a weird analogy, because the context made Treliving look worse.

Then you realize Dubas was just a kid dressed up as a fireman for Halloween….

There was nothing wrong with our cap structure, and we had plenty of assets.
Any holes Treliving opened up by letting people walk or trading them away should have and could have been filled in the offseason.
He just focused on all the wrong things.

The cap structure is horrid. That’s why Dubas failed and failed and failed again.

It's pretty weird to try and evaluate a GM's performance by the playoff roster the next GM puts together after he's gone. You're also missing quite a few players. He brought in Tavares, Marner, Knies, McCabe, Robertson, Holmberg, Jarnkrok, Kampf, Brodie, Samsonov, and McMann (who would have played if not injured) and re-signed Matthews, Nylander, Rielly, Liljegren, and Woll. Meanwhile, almost all of Treliving's additions to the playoff roster played poorly.

It’s pretty weird to pretend he brought in guys he didn’t.

Now you're trying to avoid giving credit for hiring the guy that made a great draft pick, and pretending we don't have a solid prospect pipeline, despite four internal graduates this year, and more coming over the next few years.

It’s not weird to understand Dubas was fired before Cowan was selected.

 

[DarkKnight]

If you want them to continue to be unsure, go right ahead. If anyone is unsure what a circle jerk is, I'll direct them to this thread .

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Special teams I put on the coaching, not the players.

IMO, the team didn't advance as far but I think they were ultimately better.

I hoped Treliving was going to replace him as soon as he took over. I really don't get what he showed under Dubas to make Tre think he was worth going forward with. I hope he changes that this off season.

 

[leafs in five]

In the end I thought Tre's acquisitions played pretty well. they also turned a series with the Bruins into a bit of a slug it out shot blocking contest which still just feels like the sort the Leafs would never win. But then they almost won it and I think they kind of deserved to? but saying e.g. that they deserved to beat Tampa in 2022 was never kindly received around here.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Then you realize Dubas was just a kid dressed up as a fireman for Halloween….

I realize that he was a good GM, that put out fires others created, and prevented future ones, while building great teams.

The cap structure is horrid.

There was nothing wrong with the cap structure, and our playoff losses over the years had nothing to do with that.

It’s pretty weird to pretend he brought in guys he didn’t.

Nobody did that. You just excluded a bunch originally.

It’s not weird to understand Dubas was fired before Cowan was selected.

No, but it is weird to not understand that the selection was made by the person Dubas hired. Pretty beside the point regardless.

 

[Racer88]

The penalty kill and bottom 6 were significantly worse, which is a direct reflection of the roster construction this year. It was also an area that wasn't strengthened at the deadline despite being a priority.

That's on the GM. That's how this works

The penalty kill I will give you that one but the PP was basically the same dam guys and all of a sudden they couldn’t get it done. With all the supposed fire power and high skill guys they should have been way better on the PP but the money guys failed miserably in that department

The bottom line in almost 200 pages in this thread is we have had 8 years of this core and 1 single round win against an aging, failing team.
Something has to change because the way this team is structured we are never going to advance .
My God much more evidence do we need.

 

[Dreakmur]

I realize that he was a good GM, that put out fires others created, and prevented future ones, while building great teams.

That’s why he failed and failed and failed and then got rightfully booted out of town…. Because he was so good…

There was nothing wrong with the cap structure.

So what was the reason for Dubas’ repeated failure? Just bad luck and goalies I’m sure….

Nobody did that. You just excluded a bunch originally.

He didn’t bring in Marner. He didn’t bring in McMann. Brodie wasn’t in the lineup.

No, but it is weird to not understand that the selection was made by the person Dubas hired.

Who hired the guy before Clark? Does that mean Dubas doesn’t get credit for any of those picks? Or course not… you’re just going to continue to bend yourself into oblivion to try to create a false reality where d Dubas is infallible.

It’s either pathetic or comedy genius.

 

[Mess]

In the end I thought Tre's acquisitions played pretty well. they also turned a series with the Bruins into a bit of a slug it out shot blocking contest which still just feels like the sort the Leafs would never win. But then they almost won it and I think they kind of deserved to? but saying e.g. that they deserved to beat Tampa in 2022 was never kindly received around here.

But not for lack of trying on BT part .. .The biggest problem he inherited a soft flawed team in Cap Hell.

His trade line acquisitions of players like Connor Dewar and Dmen Joel Edmundson & Ilya Lyubushkin were great additions and low cost but perhaps a little to late to get their FULL impact this year.

If you include Simon Benoit add that is 1/2 of Leafs playoff defense that all played exceptionally well, while pinning former GM's players like Brodie and Giordano in the pressbox.

Hopefully Tre can get Edmundson and Lyubushkin re-signed and we get to see a full season of them in Leafs jersey's and more prepared for next years playoffs in the process.

Treliving likes big, mean mobile Dman and hopefully he is able this summer to also add a top pairing Dman to the Leafs core.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That’s why he failed and failed and failed and then got rightfully booted out of town…. Because he was so good…

He didn't fail, and was originally offered a new contract, and then when Shanahan drank the kool aid and screwed up last offseason, he went and got a promotion and raise.

He didn’t bring in Marner. He didn’t bring in McMann. Brodie wasn’t in the lineup.

He brought in all 3 of those players, and Brodie played a game.

Who hired the guy before Clark? Does that mean Dubas doesn’t get credit for any of those picks?

When was Dubas prevented from being involved in a pick made while he was GM?

 

[ULF_55]

If's ...

Bottom line they were worse than last year.

Health issues throughout the season:
Klingberg
Samsonov
Woll
Rielly
Liljegren
marner
McMann
Jarnkrok
Matthews - Playoffs (plus sick more than once)
Nylander - Playoffs

Past Best Before Date:
Brodie
Giordano

Player Development - Introduction of Rookies
Knies
McMann --- kinda rookie


No one should be impressed.

It isn't like he made any progress.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Who hired the guy before Clark? Does that mean Dubas doesn’t get credit for any of those picks? Or course not… you’re just going to continue to bend yourself into oblivion to try to create a false reality where d Dubas is infallible.

It’s either pathetic or comedy genius.

Ok, but you also bend yourselves into oblivion to create a reality where everything bad that ever happened or ever will happen to this team is Dubas's fault. Anything good that happened under him is credited to someone else, anything bad that happened under him is his fault and anything bad happening under Tre is Duby's fault.
I'm not arguing that you are wrong about the other poster, but it's really funny to read this stuff when you're being every bit as extreme, just driving on the other side of the road.

I don't like Dubas, thought he was not a very good GM here, handicapped himself with some signings (mainly Tavares, in hindsight). Glad he's gone, Keefe should have been gone too.

 

[ULF_55]

Bottom line.

They failed in a different manner.

End of season ... rearranged deck chairs on the

 

[Trapper]

Bottom line.

They failed in a different manner.

End of season ... rearranged deck chairs on the

Problem is this core keeps making it to the lifeboats.

 

[613Leafer]

But not for lack of trying on BT part .. .The biggest problem he inherited a soft flawed team in Cap Hell.

His trade line acquisitions of players like Connor Dewar and Dmen Joel Edmundson & Ilya Lyubushkin were great additions and low cost but perhaps a little to late to get their FULL impact this year.

If you include Simon Benoit add that is 1/2 of Leafs playoff defense that all played exceptionally well, while pinning former GM's players like Brodie and Giordano in the pressbox.

Hopefully Tre can get Edmundson and Lyubushkin re-signed and we get to see a full season of them in Leafs jersey's and more prepared for next years playoffs in the process.

Treliving likes big, mean mobile Dman and hopefully he is able this summer to also add a top pairing Dman to the Leafs core.

Treliving's supporting cast did more in the playoffs than any previous supporting cast, except maybe ROR last year where we traded a ton of picks/prospects at the deadline and went "all in".

Domi/Bertuzzi - 4 points each while also playing physical
Edmundson, Lybushkin, Benoit - solid physical defensive play that kept Boston to 2 goals or less in 4/7 games.

The "core four" had their worst performance as a group since they've come together (partly due to health), yet the team still made it to OT game 7 which is as good or better than they've done in every other year except last year. If the core four played as well as they have in any other year (which isn't particularly good mind you, but relative to this year, still better) this team is in the 2nd round.

Treliving also had to deal with 5M in dead capspace for Brodie and a massively overpaid Tavares, as he inherited them at the end of their deals whereas Dubas benefit from them at their peak performance as Leafs. If Tavares if overpaid by ~5M, that's 10M in dead capspace.

Klingberg was a bad move, and I didn't like the Reaves signing. Aside from that, Treliving did a better job putting together a playoff roster than what we've previously seen here, other than maybe Dubas trading two 1sts + two 2nds + other picks/prospects and young players at last year's deadline (though I'm not convinced that supporting cast was any better, the core four simply had a good 1st round for once while also surrounded by a decent supporting cast).

All that to say - the failure this year is NOT on the supporting cast, it's on the core four.

 

[Dreakmur]

He didn't fail, and was originally offered a new contract, and then when Shanahan drank the kool aid and screwed up last offseason, he went and got a promotion and raise.

He failed every year. Unless his goal was tricking gullible low knowledge hockey fans into believing his con - then he succeeded in some cases.

He brought in all 3 of those players, and Brodie played a game.

Hunter selected Marner. McMann was brought in by the AHL GM.

When was Dubas prevented from being involved in a pick made while he was GM?

Not being allowed to sit at the draft table isn’t the same as not being involved in the decision.

 

[ULF_55]

We do know they lost in the first round to Boston again?

So Treliving joins how many failed GM's that have managed to lose to the Bruins in the playoffs this century?

There is nothing to celebrate.

 

[Menzinger]

We do know they lost in the first round to Boston again?

So Treliving joins how many failed GM's that have managed to lose to the Bruins in the playoffs this century?

There is nothing to celebrate.

I liked enough from Tre to be fine with him handling another year, especially to see what he can do rebuilding the D with an offseason of trades and free agents. There were definitely some positives to build from (like extending Domi for example)

But the team just experienced a worse regular season and playoffs than the previous year. Massive question marks remain about if the team is heading in the right direction now...

 

[Dekes For Days]

He failed every year.

His team failed to win the cup, but that doesn't make a GM a failure.

Hunter selected Marner. McMann was brought in by the AHL GM.

Hunter and Dubas selected Marner as co-interim GMs, in a collaborative decision with the rest of the management, coaching, and scouting staff.
McMann was brought in by Dubas (and was signed to his NHL deal by him), as was the AHL GM at the time.

Not being allowed to sit at the draft table isn’t the same as not being involved in the decision.

"Yes, there were some restrictions imposed by the Calgary Flames but we’re not going to go into those details," Leafs president Brendan Shanahan previously said. "I will say that I’ve talked to Brad about that. We have an excellent head scout in Wes Clark. We have an excellent scouting team. We pick in the first, fifth and sixth round. They are still doing their job. They are preparing. That part won’t change. We have the utmost confidence in our scouting staff."

"There is nothing stopping Treliving from physically being at the NHL Draft, however, he will not be allowed to take part in any of the decisions when it comes to Toronto's selections."

Sure sounds like Treliving wasn't allowed to be part of the decision, and Shanahan was relying on Wes Clark and the scouting team.

 

[notbias]

But not for lack of trying on BT part .. .The biggest problem he inherited a soft flawed team in Cap Hell.

His trade line acquisitions of players like Connor Dewar and Dmen Joel Edmundson & Ilya Lyubushkin were great additions and low cost but perhaps a little to late to get their FULL impact this year.

If you include Simon Benoit add that is 1/2 of Leafs playoff defense that all played exceptionally well, while pinning former GM's players like Brodie and Giordano in the pressbox.

Hopefully Tre can get Edmundson and Lyubushkin re-signed and we get to see a full season of them in Leafs jersey's and more prepared for next years playoffs in the process.

Treliving likes big, mean mobile Dman and hopefully he is able this summer to also add a top pairing Dman to the Leafs core.

He inherited a 2nd round team and made them a 1st round team.

You can type as many words as you want, but that is a fact.

"big, mean mobile Dman"... Lub and Edmundson are far from mobile.

Treliving's supporting cast did more in the playoffs than any previous supporting cast, except maybe ROR last year where we traded a ton of picks/prospects at the deadline and went "all in".

Outside of Domi and Lub, no one was really good.

The best players in the series for us were Domi, Knies, Woll, Matthews, and Nylander.

I count one acquisition.

 

[notbias]

I liked enough from Tre to be fine with him handling another year, especially to see what he can do rebuilding the D with an offseason of trades and free agents. There were definitely some positives to build from (like extending Domi for example)

But the team just experienced a worse regular season and playoffs than the previous year. Massive question marks remain about if the team is heading in the right direction now...

What about the D stood out to you as good or better than previous years? Curious why you have hope about him building the D. That scares me far more than the forwards.

If Woll never played, would you feel the same?

 

[Tak7]

If's ...

Bottom line they were worse than last year.

Health issues throughout the season:
Klingberg
Samsonov
Woll
Rielly
Liljegren
marner
McMann
Jarnkrok
Matthews - Playoffs (plus sick more than once)
Nylander - Playoffs

Past Best Before Date:
Brodie
Giordano

Player Development - Introduction of Rookies
Knies
McMann --- kinda rookie


No one should be impressed.

It isn't like he made any progress.

Absolutely nailed it here - when you look at it big picture like this, it's a poor 1st season by Treliving.

Very well said

 

[Apex Predator]

Is this how it’s going to be going forward. After Treliving is gone we’re going to knock the next GM to boost Dubas. After that guys gone we’re doing to do the same?

It’s pretty simple every GM at the end of the day has failed in the last 50 years. You can pulls pros and cons to all of them but they failed in delivering a Stanley cup.

 

[notDatsyuk]

For the record, the core 4 collectively scored more this year than they ever have.

For someone who brags about context, you sure avoid it.

In response to a comment that Marner and Tavares were worse, you said the core four scored more than ever.

How about context?
Matthews scored more than ever.
Nylander scored more than ever.
Marner even by ppg the lowest in three seasons.
Tavares has the worst season of his career.

No wonder people laugh at your posts.

@FerrisRox and @Bomber0104 - please don't laugh at Dekes.

I know many of his takes are hysterically funny, but if you use the laugh emoji it shows up on his profile as a like (the system can't tell if you are laughing with him or at him).

Sometimes I think it's the only reason he makes some of his posts.

 

[SprDaVE]

Is this how it’s going to be going forward. After Treliving is gone we’re going to knock the next GM to boost Dubas. After that guys gone we’re doing to do the same?

It’s pretty simple every GM at the end of the day has failed in the last 50 years. You can pulls pros and cons to all of them but they failed in delivering a Stanley cup.

Nobody would be knocking him down if he got the team to breakthrough. He didn't. He will have plenty of time to figure it out and fix the issues, some are his own. If he can break the curse, he'll be properly praised. If they keep failing, he'll be another one to look back on and we'll compare his failures to the next guy.

 

[notDatsyuk]

the results were worse though, unless we are talking abouts respect in the handshake line type results. or the not giving up as many futures results. or the performance in spite of injuries results.
but it used to be that winning in the playoffs was the only thing that mattered and the rest was excuses.

Two more wins and three more losses in the playoffs last year.

I guess you could call that better, as long as you don't look at the quality of the games.

If we made it to the conference finals he'd say "cup or failure".

No - he'd say it was all thanks to Dubas.