Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[Cassell]

My guess is that they felt that it was pointless in that he was going to give up at least 1 shitty goal every game at a minimum after seeing him play the first couple of games. They probably figured if they worked like demons to stop most of the shots getting through...he would still let in a back breaker....so they assumed they had to score their way out of this mess vs playing shut down hockey.


Lou also drafted Ian Scott instead of Swayman with the pick right in front of Boston....

I think the Ian Scott pick is a good example of the right pick at the time that simply didn’t work out due to circumstances that couldn’t possibly have been foreseen. Ian Scott was a 6’4” monster goalie who had solid numbers everywhere he’d played. Jeremy Swayman, if memory serves, was a much less heralded goalie out of Alaska.

I think this is just a situation of the Leafs doing the right thing and the result just not going the way they’d wanted. No one could have guessed that injuries would end Ian Scott’s career at 23 years old.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Wouldn't you prefer we tried barrie through Ufa instead?

Barrie would have cost too much as a UFA back then. He was considered quite good.

And the fact we can't even afford younger barrie with our picks today

We have more than enough picks and prospects to make a trade like that today if we wanted.

Dubas did a horrible job addressing the top 4 besides Muzzin.

Muzzin and Brodie were both massive top-pairing defensemen additions. McCabe has been a great top-4 add, and probably our best defenseman in this series. Giordano was a top-4 add, and did well until age caught up with him. That's not even counting the likes of Barrie and Ceci (who were averaging 22-23 minutes in top roles when we acquired them) or Holl (who performed well in a top-4 PK-heavy role for a couple years here). We went from a bad defensive team, to a good defensive team under Dubas, to a bad defensive team this year, so I'm not sure how you think the only guy who actually added top-4 D and got good defensive results with this group did a "horrible job".

Marner line?? Really??

Yes, the Marner line. The line where Marner was flying, setting up everything, as the best player on the line.

you are setting yourself up for a massive fall if the Leafs get the W tonight and god it's gonna be hilarious.

Nothing I've said is dependent on the result of tonight's game. I'm praying they do pull off the win.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes, it is. There are some fans who like to say that we just get goalied every single year but I feel like this is exactly what happened to us versus florida, columbus, montreal, and at least at some selected times during Tampa Bay and Boston in the past, in those deciding games where we couldn't get anything going.

Florida, columbus, and Montreal were full of bottom pairing defensemen that clogged the slot and made sure that the guys on the perimeter couldn't get a good look. Now our guys are doing the same thing, and you're falling into the same trap saying that we are goalieing them. Absolutely Woll is playing very well. But a lot of credit goes to these so-called butchers.

We haven't gotten "goalied every single year". We've been "goalied" a few times over the years by trophy-winning, record-holding goalies, who continued "goalieing" teams even harder after us. Those teams also varied in styles and didn't just have a bunch of bottom pairing physical defensemen. Columbus, for example, was the runaway best defensive team in the league that year for goodness sake, and was one of the least physical teams in the playoffs, so I'm not sure how you're attempting to draw a connection between all of these teams.

Those teams also didn't really prevent good looks from us, and you're exaggerating what we're actually preventing in this series as well. I don't know why it's so hard for some to acknowledge the impact that goaltending has in playoff series, and give Woll some credit for saving our season. Especially considering we've literally seen a different goalie in front of these same players back-to-back, and they produced completely opposite results.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The average of the previous five years of Dubas soft-as-butter, loser playoff hockey was a paltry 33 hits per-60.

33.44 hits per 60 actually. Which is above average over that time period, and more than the average for cup winners in the cap era of 30.07.
We were the 4th highest hitting team last playoffs. This year we're 3rd.
And if anything, our overeagerness for physicality has actually hurt us in this series.

 

[Bomber0104]

33.44 hits per 60 actually. Which is above average over that time period, and more than the average for cup winners in the cap era of 30.07.
We were the 4th highest hitting team last playoffs. This year we're 3rd.
And if anything, our overeagerness for physicality has actually hurt us in this series.

And then won one playoff round in five years, losing to opponents of literally any quality every single season, at times in absolutely spectacular fashion (Montreal, Columbus, Florida).

Massive fail of a tenure from the loser-ex-GM of the Leafs.

Current GM has already matched the loser-ex-GM's playoff output in four of the five seasons...

Good opportunity here to not only match but exceed it.

Sorry, 33.44 hits, not 33 hits

 

[Dekes For Days]

And then won one playoff round in five years

Which wouldn't support the claim that hitting is important.

 

[Bomber0104]

Which wouldn't support the claim that hitting is important.

Neither does your opinion.

Everyone here is aware of how much that's worth.

About the equivalent of Tyson Barrie's playoff impact here in Toronto, you know what I mean?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Neither does your opinion.

Well yes, my opinion does not support the claim that averaging ~50 hits a game instead of ~35-40 hits a game is critically important. Because my opinion was formed based on the facts and historical data that support it not being that important. As well as watching this series where both chasing that attribute and doing it that much has gotten us into more trouble than it's helped.

 

[Mess]

The fact is the Leafs are averaging a touch over 50 hits per-60 minutes of play during these playoffs. This was quite an intentional outcome of bringing in the off-season and deadline pieces we did.

The average of the previous five years of Dubas soft-as-butter, loser playoff hockey was a paltry 33 hits per-60.

Yup !!

Don't look now but the Brad Treliving Maple Leafs LEAD the NHL playoffs in HITS .. When was the last time a proud Leaf fan could say that?

Truly giving Leaf Nation fans something to be proud of after inheriting a figure skating team from his predecessor.

The days of trading Mason Marchment for Denis Malgin are behind us, because we have a real GM sitting in the chair and he gave the Leafs team a backbone and spine to push back.

 

[arso40]

We also won game 5 on the back of the Marner line, and Tavares' drive to the net in OT.

Marner line?? Really?? Gimme a break that's the domi line at this point he leads the team in points

---

R

Barrie would have cost too much as a UFA back then. He was considered quite good.

We have more than enough picks and prospects to make a trade like that today if we wanted.

Muzzin and Brodie were both massive top-pairing defensemen additions. McCabe has been a great top-4 add, and probably our best defenseman in this series. Giordano was a top-4 add, and did well until age caught up with him. That's not even counting the likes of Barrie and Ceci (who were averaging 22-23 minutes in top roles when we acquired them) or Holl (who performed well in a top-4 PK-heavy role for a couple years here). We went from a bad defensive team, to a good defensive team under Dubas, to a bad defensive team this year, so I'm not sure how you think the only guy who actually added top-4 D and got good defensive results with this group did a "horrible job".

Yes, the Marner line. The line where Marner was flying, setting up everything, as the best player on the line.

Nothing I've said is dependent on the result of tonight's game. I'm praying they do pull off the win.

Good one cause I thought that lines been the best line the whole series and im pretty sure Matthews only missed game 5 and 6

 

[Dekes For Days]

Don't look now but the Brad Treliving Maple Leafs LEAD the NHL playoffs in HITS .. When was the last time a proud Leaf fan could say that?

Two weeks into last year's playoffs.

 

[Bomber0104]

Well yes, my opinion does not support the claim that averaging ~50 hits a game instead of ~35-40 hits a game is critically important. Because my opinion was formed based on the facts and historical data that support it not being that important. As well as watching this series where both chasing that attribute and doing it that much has gotten us into more trouble than it's helped.

The number of hits you typed out can be interpreted as facts, but that's about where it ends.

Your opinion of what's happening on the ice and the value of having a very physical team is worth less than a cup of day-old coffee from Tims, as everyone knows.

You have been cheerleading for a loser-GM who won a single round in five years of playoffs.

How's that for a fact?

 

[notbias]

The number of hits you typed out can be interpreted as facts, but that's about where it ends.

Your opinion of what's happening on the ice and the value of having a very physical team is worth less than a cup of day-old coffee from Tims, as everyone knows.

You have been cheerleading for a loser-GM who won a single round in five years of playoffs.

How's that for a fact?

You know Treliving has never been out of the 2nd round and has missed the playoffs a lot? It's weird to call the former GM a loser while saying how great this one is.

I hope Treliving succeeds here, I just want the Leafs to win... but it's just odd how your standards change from GM to GM.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The number of hits you typed out can be interpreted as facts

Here's some more: The lesser hitting team is currently 5-1 in these playoffs. 12 out of the 18 cup winners in the cap era have ranked in the bottom half of playoff teams in hitting. They average 30.07 hits per 60 - less than us. A cup has not been won by the highest hitting team in the playoffs throughout the cap era, but it has been won by the lowest hitting team.

Meanwhile, I've yet to ever see any shred of justification or support for the pedestal that some put hitting on.

 

[hotpaws]

You know Treliving has never been out of the 2nd round and has missed the playoffs a lot? It's weird to call the former GM a loser while saying how great this one is.

I hope Treliving succeeds here, I just want the Leafs to win... but it's just odd how your standards change from GM to GM.

what's odd is you accusing others of changing there standards from GM to GM when it's you who has changed your standards and now are acting like you didn't love every move our former failure of a GM made

 

[leafs in five]

Neither does your opinion.

 

[Bomber0104]

He inherited a good defensive team with a good mix of attributes. He went way too hard after physicality, at the expense of other valuable attributes, failed to address the top-4 of our defense and losses from the roster, inserted some of the worst defensive players in the league throughout the roster, and ignored PKing. As a result, we're worse defensively, worse on the PK, and we're really struggling with transition because we're missing key attributes in our back-end.

And we had a very great defensive effort once again, just 1 goal allowed in 3 periods of play.

And didn't let in a goal on the PK.

50% of the salary cap that Dubas signed only scored a single goal and that is precisely the problem why Toronto keeps losing in the playoffs.

They just suck, and the whole idea that you can sign 4 players to half of the cap hasn't and still doesn't work, no matter what you really do around the outskirts of that salary structure.

It's a model that no other team does.

It's a proven-losing model.

And the Leafs are the fore-bearers of that.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Didn't hate Lyubushkin, Edmundson, or Dewar this series. They did their jobs as far as I'm concerned though I wish Edmundson had literally any kind of shot or offensive instincts with how often the puck fell to him in a prime scoring chance.

Domi and Bertuzzi were ok this series. Wish we'd gotten more out of them but their common centre went down with injury and they got stuck with the offensive black hole that is playoff Mitch Marner. Not to mention if another coach was in charge of special teams and the powerplay they may have had more of an impact, especially Bertuzzi given how he thrived there for Boston last spring. But our idiot coaching staff just kept throwing the same five guys out there, changing nothing and getting the same lousy result. Think there's a good chance Domi is back, Bertuzzi less so.

Did good work re-signing McMann and Benoit. Both guys are gamers and I'm glad they'll be back. Don't know if he'll get a chance to take another crack at this team with the speculated major overhaul coming to this organization but we'll see.

 

[Apex Predator]

And we had a very great defensive effort once again, just 1 goal allowed in 3 periods of play.

And didn't let in a goal on the PK.

50% of the salary cap that Dubas signed only scored a single goal and that is precisely the problem why Toronto keeps losing in the playoffs.

They just suck, and the whole idea that you can sign 4 players to half of the cap hasn't and still doesn't work, no matter what you really do around the outskirts of that salary structure.

It's a model that no other team does.

It's a proven-losing model.

And the Leafs are the fore-bearers of that.

I think if half the cap is goalie, defense and 2 forwards or another combination can work. 4 forwards is not working.

 

[Patmac40]

Posted in another thread but here’s my team construction rant for the night:

We need to prioritize puck moving dmen on this team going forward. What we’ve seen in the last number of years from our deadline deals we can always go out and get the tough defensive types but I think one of this team’s biggest issues is that we don’t have enough defensemen that move the puck well.

Bruins entire d-core aside from maybe Carlo moves the puck well. Watching Colorado’s defense out there is like watching a different sport compared to Toronto.

Toronto has Rielly, Liljegren, and McCabe to an extent that can move the puck well. And you need Benoit/Edmundson types in there because they do a good job of stopping plays but especially with Liljegren out it was obvious that they couldn’t transition the play into anything offensive after they kill bruins’ rushes or cycles. Lyabushkin looked like he was handling a grenade most nights.

They need to prioritize guys who can support their offensive talent up front. And they can fill in the other needs easier. Maybe put Liljegren on that top pp unit too. We have a lot of passers but it would be nice to have a guy with a big shot up top. He has that.

 

[Bomber0104]

I think if half the cap is goalie, defense and 2 forwards or another combination can work. 4 forwards is not working.

The Star put out a good breakdown of what the usual breakdown percentage wise is on Cup-winning forward/defence/goaltending....

I'll try to find it.

I did my own breakdown early in the year and of course our forwards were way out of whack.

The issue is our defence spending.

It's almost league-low percentage-wise.

Here it is...

 

[LeafEgo]

Poor Tre. With scraps he built the best playoff team we have had, solid defense and forward adds that remarkably transformed this teams culture and play style in the right direction.

Only to be done in by what was left from Dubie in Keefe and Sammy. And next year he's working with JT and no first.

Dark days from the egregious ineptitude are not behind us just yet.

 

[notbias]

Poor Tre. With scraps he built the best playoff team we have had, solid defense and forward adds that remarkably transformed this teams culture and play style in the right direction.

Only to be done in by what was left from Dubie in Keefe and Sammy. And next year he's working with JT and no first.

Dark days from the egregious ineptitude are not behind us just yet.

They lost... think you misread the score.

 

[Gabriel426]

I would call Utah and get something done. 100% the new owner there want to make a splash and win quickly. They got plenty of picks and cap space to work things out with the Leafs.

 

[Bomber0104]

I would call Utah and get something done. 100% the new owner there want to make a splash and win quickly. They got plenty of picks and cap space to work things out with the Leafs.

Marner's camp has to agree to it.

That's what everyone keeps forgetting.